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They're technically denying high calvinism in doing so. Calvinism itself holds men as participants in what's predestined, used as instruments. So in a sense, they're predestined to continue correcting incorrect beliefs :) To be fair though, even armianism actually believes everything is...

You're right and nobody's taking that away - what you yourself qualified there is that this assured salvation is "in the lives of His chosen (elect)". And I speak about conditional salvation in the non-elect. Two very different operations of God in two different categories of people. So again...

No. God works repentance (Heb 6:6) into the non-elect's life by giving him a new heart (1Sam 10:9) - enlightening him (Heb 6:4) and washing him once (2Pet 2:22). He's expected and commanded to continue in faith to the end in order to receive eternal life (Heb 3:14, Matt 24:13), but equally is...

I've mentioned your flaw in reasoning here twice already on this thread and I suppose this needs to be cleared first before further progress is made. This isn't a scriptural argument but a logical argument alone - If I choose green, it will rain. If I choose red, it will not rain. We observe...

As confirmation, yes, we're on the same page. (1) for the elect and (2) for the non-elect is double predestination. (1) for the elect and (3) for the non-elect is single predestination. Why does it become moot? As stated above, if you accept (3) for the non-elect alone and (1) for the elect -...

This is a good starting point for a discussion on possibilities. I'd say you've mixed up the concept of predestination and the process of salvation there - i'll explain why and we can work from there. Predestination is to decree your end destiny or destination pre- anyone's good or evil. And...

The logical inconsistency is not in the argument but in the first premises - how is prevenient grace different from regenerative grace that they can be distinguished separately by the arminians?

You may have misunderstood single predestination there. It never concludes that the non-elect are finally saved. It only holds that they weren't predestined for condemnation before the ages - not that they escape it thereafter. John Bunyan makes this same point when he says "there is a great...

From Rom 9:8 and elsewhere, I believe in - God working with and towards lost sinners in a fashion that will have all those whom God promised to be saved actually get saved, as Jesus did in fact die in their place to purchase by his own blood their sure salvation. I see this exactly as God dealt...

Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead...

You could possibly refer my previous post #72 too. If they didn't really repent and didn't truly receive knowledge of the truth, then by definition they are still hardened and blinded, yes? Their false profession is also an ignorant work in their flesh, yes? How do you then say that these...

We're just going around in circles now. You can't argue as a point the very thing we're arguing to prove. Point of discussion: Is anyone worked upon supernaturally by God towards salvation who then later falls away? Base Premise: One is still blinded in their minds and hardened in their...

You lost me here. My argument was that there is a third class of people who were saved initially but destroyed later as per Scripture (Jud 1:5) - which goes against your argument that there can be only 2 classes of people of clearly divided boundaries at all times.

As you can see, we've always been in agreement that the difference between the elect and the non-elect is in the elect being born of God while the non-elect aren't. Where we disagree is that I distinguish between the giving of a new heart in regeneration and the giving of a new nature in rebirth...

Also, at the end of time, there will be only the elect saved and the non-elect lost - there aren't three classes. It's just that the process in which the non-elect are destroyed are either in Egypt or by having conditional salvation offered them which they fall away from and then destroyed in...

By that reasoning, there should be only people entering the promised land and people lost in egypt. There should be no third saved initially but destroyed later class.

Sure, and as foreshadowed parallels go, delivering them from slavery and revealing His glory is the spiritual equivalent of God removing hardened hearts unto repentance and enlightening them with the knowledge of His truth and glory. Again, whether you wish to see it as common grace or as the...

I hear that's what you believe. But you will have to deal with the Hebrews passages - how were those people enlightened with the knowledge of the truth and renewed unto repentance once if not for the supernatural work of God in them?

Not at all, what ever did I say that seemed to allude to that? I'm arguing that God can and does show conditional mercy to a non-elect person in supernaturally washing them once, but from which they fall away later to their own perdition. This is opposed to the calvinist position that God does...

Do you then see it in Hebrews 10? I don't understand what your argument exactly is... my questions would follow the same pattern in Heb 6 as in Heb 10 - Base Premise: One is still blinded in their minds and hardened in their hearts and cannot ever come to true repentance and true knowledge...