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Not offended. I stated that "seventy times" was a perfectly good translation. But I also contend that the word "times" means occurrences or instances and never multiply in the whole English NT (KJV and others). So, could you please explain why you insist that it MUST be translated only by the...

One problem is knowing exactly which phrases in an ancient language are actually idioms; and second, what did they mean?

That there is no specific Greek word for "times" was covered. That ἑβδομηκοντάκις can be translated "seventy times" was also covered. The point was that the English word "times" does not mean multiply here; yet, it can be easily confused for multiply.

Allow me to try to pull this all together. In my experience many, many English readers have accepted the words "seventy times seven" as a literal mathematical expression while at the same time understanding it has hyperbolic purpose. It is perfectly natural for modern English readers to think...

Please, forgive me for being unclear; I was referring to the first occurrence of the Greek word rendered "seven times" in Matthew 18:22. I attempting to use it as comparitive to the Greek word translated "seventy times". The point being that there is no directly corresponding Greek word here for...

When read with proper understanding the translation of "seventy times seven" is ambiguous and nonsensical in English, as it should be! (since the Greek is idiomatic)

The Greek adverb ἑβδομηκοντάκις (Strong's 1441, a hapax legomenon) is a variation of ἑβδομήκοντα (Strong's 1440) which is the ordinary word for "seventy" as found in Luke 10:1 for example. Also ἑπτάκις (Strong's 2034) is slightly different than ἑπτά (Strong's 2033) which is the ordinary word...

I like those!

And again, I agree wholeheartedly with you. Although the pitfall at this verse does not require intense training (nor Greek knowledge) to avoid, only careful reading.

There in lies the rub. The Greek does not actually say "seventy times", although that would often be a perfectly good rendering of the Greek word. However, in this context that two-word English translation has caused a lot of people to misunderstand what was actually recorded by the Holy Spirit.

Here is a clue: the Lord did not equivocate in Matthew 18:22.

I am in full agreement with you. As I stated in the OP, the 3 English words "seventy times seven" is a good literal rendering of the 2 Greek words. Preachers and teachers can point readers to things that were missed when reading. However, it is possible that most preachers, teachers, and...

Would it be best to paraphrase the Greek words then as simply "unlimited times" or something similar? Or is it proper in your opinion that the Greek words be translated literally, as most versions have done?

Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain for us the reasons for any differences in the translations (if there really are any). Or, are the apparent differences simply a matter of different interpretation?

A little more patience, Brother Reformed. The point will soon be revealed.

Brother Cassidy, I agree that the teaching of Jesus is unlimited forgiveness. However, there is an issue regarding reading comprehension of the English here.

Jordan, could your literal interpretation of the words "seventy times seven" be expressed mathematically as 70 x 7 = 490 ? Am I correct that you would be opposed to the NIV, NET, and other versions' rendering (that you assume could be mathematically expressed as 70 + 7 = 77) ? -- Jesus said to...

Matthew 18:21-22 (KJV) -- Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. "Seventy times seven" is a good literal translation of...

My objection to Ryken's statement is that it is itself based on a logical and linguistic impossibility. Ryken infers that Formal Equivalence translates the words and therefore what naturally follows is the thought of the original. But that claim is impossible. The fallacy of thinking that a...

Indeed, here is Isaiah 58:8 in some early English translations -- Thanne thi liyt schal breke out as the morewtid, and thin helthe schal rise ful soone; and thi riytfulnesse schal go bifore thi face, and the glorie of the Lord schal gadere thee. (1395 Wycliff) Then shal thy light breake...