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Surprising you would come to that conclusion given than Pink happens to agree with your perspective while Tozer does not. :smilewinkgrin: But why not address the content of his quote? You disagree? Why? What is wrong with that view of sovereignty? Never heard it said like that...but maybe...

But why couldn't they come??? Multiple choice: A. Because God decreed for all mankind to be born unable to respond to His very OWN appeals for reconciliation due to the sin of Adam. or B. For this reason they [Israel] could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere: "He has blinded...

I wouldn't say you overplay God's sovereignty as much as I would say you misapply it. AW Tozer said it much better than I could: "God Sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good...

:thumbsup:I am in agreement with you on these points, Van.

This post is just to serve as an announcement that a new Calvinism/Arminianism forum as been created and all discussions on that topic will be diverted there... http://www.baptistboard.com/forumdisplay.php?f=35 :wavey:

Well, the verses I referred to are not speculative. They teach that God chooses to show grace to the humble...and that He chose the weak to shame the wise...and that he chose those properly clothed to enter the wedding banquet. Those choices are clearly conditioned upon something of man, are...

So, your proof that Christ's sacrifice wasn't provisional is to point to some people who didn't benefit from that provision? Maybe you are not understanding the concept of 'provisional atonement?'

Baptists have historically agreed on this particular point and even Arminius himself never actually denied this teaching. He questioned it based on some troubling texts, but never officially took a stance against this teaching. After all, we all agree upon the effectual power of regeneration...

This is also referred to as "the effectual calling," and claims that God uses an inward irresistible regenerative working in the lives of those he has elected before the world began, to make them have new desires (a new heart); thus making them want to believe and repent unto salvation. This...

Did Jesus suffer just so much for just so many, only shedding blood for a particular number of elect individuals? Or Is the atonement of Christ provisional, like the snake lifted in the dessert? Or the Passover sacrifice? Or all the other atonement sacrifices of the OT, where it is...

Calvinists teach that before the world began, God chose a particular number of individuals to effectually save. They teach that this choice is 'unconditional,' meaning it is not based upon anything except God's own secret, self-glorifying purposes. Yet, some passages seem to suggest that God...

I'd like to unpack each of the points of Calvinism in a civil manner: Would Calvinistic (reformed) believers here agree with this definition: "a state of corruption due to original sin held in Calvinism to infect every part of man's nature and to make the natural man unable to know or obey...

Here is the link for all debates involving Calvinism and non-Calvinism Soteriological issues. A link on the main page has been added as well. Bookmark this page: http://www.baptistboard.com/forumdisplay.php?f=35

Romans 8:15 :thumbsup:

No, I am his friend. John 15:15

That statement is unsubstantiated. Unless He so chooses. If God chose to design a world where men have freedom...a world where he doesn't originate sin...a world where he justly holds men responsible because they actually have the ability to respond...then He might choose to allow himself to...

That's right. Bob, please stop moving the threads until this forum has a listing on the main page like the rest. There is really no reason to do this in my opinion.

So, God's choice is free, but not free enough to base his choice on a condition outside himself? Electing is choosing. Describe how God makes a choice in your worldview. Doesn't God foreknow what he would choose prior to choosing? If so, how does he ever choose it? What about thoughts of...

And I'll give you the secrets to following the rules of this forum. Stay on topic and don't make personal accusations. What does that have to do with the topic of this thread and are you implying that I have not done so? If so, quote what I said and make a case. Do you mean fallacies like ad...

Whoa...talk about getting personal... somehow from my questions, comments and objections your have discerned I'm bitter, can't have rational thought, and I desire something other than truth. Wow. This is against our rules and if it wasn't about me I'd have to give you an infraction. What...