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One thing I see is we learn more from people who are followers of Christ yet differ from us on certain points than we learn from people who think just like us. I think the debate between Calvinists and non calvinists is healthy. It can prevent both sides from extremism, if it is done correctly...

Who said it did? Certainly not me. In fact, I repeatedly stated that I do not believe Calvinism teaches that. Last time was post 95, go back and read it. I havent misunderstood you, you have been misunderstanding me. BTW, which quote were you referring to? Several were provided

Thanks for posting those. . Here is a pretty good page on the issue. There is much in this writing I can agree with, and a couple things that go a little further than I am able to go, but it is a pretty good defense against the "God is the author of evil argument", which contrary to what T...

J Oliver Buswell- Sin must be within God's eternal decrees in some sense in which He is not the author of it . . . We must conclude then that within the decrees of God, there are decrees of permission of those things of which God Himself is not the author Buswell said that sin is withn God's...

quote= And that is the problem. You can't force a single contextual understanding into every use of the word. And that is exactly what you are doing. False. We have been discussing what it means that God ordained alll things, specifically focusing on the issue of what it means to ordain evil...

I have been using the word in only one context. I do not have a problem or questiom with the way the word is used in other contexts. This whole time I have not changed the context of what I have been discussing, so it is not myself with a misunderstanding, but you I understood your point the...

Yes, I basically have always held to the Classical Arminian explanation of it as stated by you. Blessings

This is what I thought the Calvinistic position on "God ordains whatsoever comes to pass". Someone else said ordain means to permit or allow. That must have been a "semi-Calvinist or moderate Calvinist response. Thank you for the replies. I only had time to skim over it right now, but I will...

I enjoyed "Debating Calvinism" co-written by Calvinist James White and Arminian Dave Hunt. Note: I am a moderate Arminian, but I love James White and am practically addicted to "Dividing Line" Also, there are different types of Arminianism, it covers a wide range. I am an Arminian, but I...

Grace means we don't get what we deserve and we get what we don't deserve. My question was not an inquiry into God's Justice (which is unquestionable). It was an inquiry into the accuracy of the statement regarding "God ordaining all things". Now that the word "ordain" has been clearly...

The thing I was not doing that Job passage addresses is this... I would never think that I could ever demand or deserve anything from God, and I have no business questioning the potter. I deserve absolute justice and condemnation, but because of Christ I receive wholly unmerited favor. So...

My response was not meant to be scathing, and of course you should use scripture. I am sola scriptura too. My point was that the Job passage did not apply to me, ecause I was not doing the thing that the passage was addressing. Perhaps I misunderstood your point, and if so, I apologize Good...

I agree. I would say that God ALLOWED AND FOREORDAINED Judas to betray Jesus and for Jesus to be Crucified by wicked men, and it was part of (rather the crux of) the Divine plan, but that Judas and others were responsible for the sin which came from their own hearts I have no issue with what...

I hope you're not referring to me, because if the question is "unsure about Calvinism/Arminianism", I am right on topic asking about the thing that makes me unsure. I am sincerely investigating the claims of Calvinism. If you define "ordain evil" as God allows or permits evil, (not cause or...

God put the tree there because that was a way that Adam and Eve could actively love God by obeying Him and by actively believing His Word (the day you eat, you will surely die) and by actively choosing Him over their own ambitions that were perverted by lust. Also, He knew that they would...

Very good. So now I understand your position. That is why I asked about if that part was permissive or otherwise. So therefore, if part of God's decree is permissive, then whatever is permissive is not Divinely caused but permitted, and God permits or otherwise restrains evil as fitting to His...

Yes, of course I agree that God predetermined things. I meant predetermination of ALL THINGS that come to pass... There are many things God preordained. But I do not believe He pre-ordained my or your sinful acts (knew about them beforehand, allowed them, but not ordained them), and if those...

I agree that God is soveriegn whether He decrees all things that come to pass or doesnt. He can choose to decree all things or choose not to. Predeterminism is not a necessity unless the BIBLE teaches it

Thank you for the answer. I have no doubt that God is Soveriegn, and I have fully realize that He is not the author of sin. I fully believe in the Sovereignty of God. Nevertheless, decreeing that evil occur and predetermining every event that ever occurs are two very different propositions are...

The Job passage is completely irrelevant. I am not questioning God, I am examining Calvinism. Like I said, if someone can answer my question reasonably and scripturally, I will receive it with open arms quote- It is apparent he has decreed all things that come to pass, or, He simply would not...