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And therein lies the error of Calvinism. There was no regeneration prior to the death, burial and glorification of Jesus Christ (John 7). And as we know, not all Jews wanted Jesus crucified.

So keeping your faith takes no effort then.....

Still doesn't answer my question. Why is your signature the opposite of what you are here promoting? You declare one must retain their salvation.

How could it be falling away from the faith when the person kills themselves solely because they do not want to risk falling away?

How does this response answer my question about your OSAS signature?

If this is true, then it would be beneficial for a person to commit suicide once they know they have been saved.

That makes no sense at all. The point is Icon looked to millions believing on Calvinism as proof it is correct. One could make the argument Calvinism is a cult, seeing how often they preach Calvinism is the Gospel, believe it or you cannot be saved.

He's dead on guys. Either it is irresistible or it is not. Saying "ultimately" is giving man a choice.

:laugh: Good one! Seeing how your post from Cor was in answer to wpe's comments concerning Calvinist's stance on election. Are you sure you have been following this thread? :laugh:

Vooks, Curious as to why you are here arguing against eternal security in Christ and have a signature at the bottom of you page promoting OSAS.

Could be said of Mormons and SDAs as well, they have millions also.......if that is how you want to judge correct doctrine.

Even Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses associate the writings of the Apostle Paul with man-made theologies - nothing new under the sun....

We may or may not be able to know or understand God's purposes unless of course He gives us those specifics. However we can be sure if God said something is going to happen then it most certainly will. I get the sense that you don't believe what God told Ezekiel.

Your jumping around. You brought up conquering so tell me what it is you believe one must conquer....then we can move on to all the other passages you might think opposes eternal life.

You are applying this to Calvinism? Really? Looks like you are here with an agenda....

I have pondered, and come to understand the truth that election and freewill to choose life or death are both biblical truths. Calvinism throws out one in an attempt to understand the other. Fact is, you ain't gonna understand the mind of God the way you assume you can. As Icon said, and is true...

It is not the fault of non-Cals that Calvinism has come up with a term that has to be redefined by Calvinist in order for it to make any sense. I guess so they could have a catchy acronym like TULIP, since TULEP doesn't look and sound as good. :laugh: Are you here to examine if Calvinism is...

You are jumping all around and did not answer my question. You invoked Ro 9, which declares God forms the vessels of wrath, making them vessels of wrath by His own hand, giving the vessel no choice in the matter as to how God sees fit to form that person. Now either God is the Potter making...

Did the Supreme Potter make the evil vessels, or did they freely and willingly make themselves evil?

Or, unfortunately you completely misinterpret the point Paul is making. God is waiting for their evil to reach a perfect pitch? According to your interpretation of this passage it is not God waiting for them but rather God forming them to do evil.