‘The Most Dangerous Place for an African-American is in the Womb!’

[carpro]

Loretta Ross
For reproductive justice activists, the solution is to help black women have fewer unintended pregnancies and to eliminate the obstacles that interfere with personal decision making.

She doesn't tell us what the obstacles are , but admits that, for some reason, black women have poor personal decision making skills concerning unprotected sexual activity.

 

[Gina B]

No. Nor any other time.

It would be good if you were as straightforward with your answers.

The truth is you can't explain it. It defies explanation because to do so would get you hit with the racist tag.

Try this one...

Is it a racial problem or a cultural problem? Pick one. It's not that hard.

I was extremely straight-forward in my replies.

For your new question, that's as logical as me insisting you answer the well-known question posed in reply to those who give a responding party only two choices when either answer would not truly represent the other party's position. That question is "do you still beat your spouse? Answer only yes or no."
I won't ask you that because it implies you either used to beat your spouse or you still do.
Same as you shouldn't put out two unjust options with no other choice and do a victory dance when the person won't answer. All it shows is that you're a bad dancer who can't pick a good tune.

 

[carpro]

Look, this was an ad targeting the black community. I would hope that ads that are anti-abortion that target a white audience would reflect their "target group."

That's just something we need to overlook.

 

[carpro]

That question is "do you still beat your spouse? Answer only yes or no."
I won't ask you that because it implies you either used to beat your spouse or you still do.

I take that as a neither.

Then what is the cause for the racial disparity in abortions?

All you offer is...

absolutely nothing.

Why did you bother to respond to a straight news story and never offer to refute the facts? Feel the story was racist? Feel the author was racist? Don'tr believe it really happened? Just wanted to muddy the waters? Having a boring day? Trying to excuse the facts?

Just why are you here?

 

[Eric B]

It's not my thread.

So I see you're going to quibble over rhetorical statements...
You seem to agree with it, so it can be considered "yours" in a collective sense. It wasn't even addressed just to you.

Then you should clarify your point if he has it wrong.

It's not about clarifying my point; you accused me of derailing the thread, and I'm showing what was helping derail the thread.

It proves that it is not just "white" people who have that view. It is coming from within their own community.

Who ever said it was just the white community? The white community is not the one being lumped all together in sweeping statements like that.

Now you are just being nasty.

Responding to someone accusing me of "the most ridiculous, vacuous reasoning", with key words changed to something I did not say, and that response is "nasty"?

I haven't started this thread and I have only seen one.

You forget about the three in the "Politics" section, including this one started by you!: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=70187
(you didn't address blacks, but it quickly veered into that, before I even got there!)

It appears you have let your emotions run over you. Maybe you should do something else and catch your breath.

That's called EMPHASIS. And it's nothing compared to some of the emotions others display at times.

In case you haven't noticed this is a debate forum. And it is not likely everyone will agree with you. If that is to much for you to handle then you might need to be doing other things.

Yea its called an opinion and it is exactly the same thing you are doing. Holding on to it. Apparently you will only accept one answer. Right?

Uhh, I see the word "FACTS" thrown around a lot. What we're saying is called "excuses" because we're supposedly denying FACTS; not "opinions". Have you even been paying attention to what is going on?
Facts and opinions are the total opposite. If people simply said "this is my opinion, I would probably net even bother.

Who is we?

In that immediate context, Gina and I.
Generally, anyone who tries to respond to this crowd, and doesn't accept what they consider "facts".

I have no idea what the rest of this means really. Other than no one and again I say no one said or thinks it is one groups exclusive problem. You seem to over exaggerate many of your points.

You need to go back and read through these threads! If it was not being made one group's exclusive problem, then why are we arguing over this same group, with these almighty "numbers" tossed about?

And what you are missing and have veered away from is the abortion industry's preying on the minority communities. Your insistence just takes things in an off topic direction.

I addressed this a few times, saying that the problem in that claim would be the liberals (notice; no denial of the premise you are citing!), yet people are using the blacks as sort of "pawns" in these political attacks against the liberals. And also, there does appear to be anger directed at blacks, especially regarding them supposedly all supporting the liberals for some sort of political favors that are presumably taking away from everyone else or decreasing the morality and quality of life.
Since race is still a touchy issue; keep the race group out of this stupid partisan wrangling. We all seem to agree the politicians are serving their own interests first, so they're who are to blame.

 

[Gina B]

I take that as a neither.

Then what is the cause for the racial disparity in abortions?

All you offer is...

absolutely nothing.

Why did you bother to respond to a straight news story and never offer to refute the facts? Feel the story was racist? Feel the author was racist? Don'tr believe it really happened? Just wanted to muddy the waters? Having a boring day? Trying to excuse the facts?

Just why are you here?

I am here because of the following:

1. I am a member of this board

2. The subject caught my interest

3. I saw Eric's post, agreed, and voiced it

4. You jumped on me like a starving wolf on a bunny and my lucky rabbit's foot failed to knock you away and you continue hanging onto my heel. Such dedication is impressive. You only take a few minutes of my time and seem to get so much fuel from it that I'd feel bad taking that away. Quite honestly, this conversation was over a long time ago, the questions dealt with, and all that's left is for you to deal with that. I know you don't want to, but it's okay. You can let go now. You've not managed to changed my mind.

I will continue to feel as if our main concern should be trying to stop abortion. This can be done by changing hearts. Teach people to respect life. All people. All life.

I'm slightly sorry you feel as if I offered nothing, but for the sake of saying I never tried, let me ask you to repeat after me:

"My main concern about abortion is to stop abortion. This can be done by changing hearts. I will do my best to teach people to respect life. All people. All life."

 

[rbell]

That's not what I said. The vacuous reasoning is what you subtly rephrase things to say.
I said it was BETTER to criticize one's group. Because it's too easy to talk about someone else, and then put them down, and raise yourself up, making yourself the standard. Look at Phil.2:3; Rom.3:9.

The same with the Arabs. A group of Arabs came and attacked us. When you turn this into a judgment on the whole ethnic group, and start talking about "they're still in the stone age; they used to do stuff like invent the zero, but now their civilization deteriorated while ours became superior" as I used to hear back then; that's MORE than simply "voicing disgust". You have judged every single individual in the group, including those who have come to Christ.
So you can bash the actual attackers all you want, and no one will criticize you. But people always go beyond that, into comparing them to "us".

This is where it becomes so difficult to engage in productive dialogue with you. Criticism of someone different than us suddenly becomes a vile attack on everyone in that group.

Good grief. This was an ad campaign, targeted at black folks, to encourage them to choose life.

And you're against it.

Sheesh.

 

[carpro]

"My main concern about abortion is to stop abortion. This can be done by changing hearts. I will do my best to teach people to respect life. All people. All life."

You can't stop it if you don't even recognize that it's a far far greater problem in one segment of the population than any other.

You have to:

Recognize there is a problem.
Identify the causes.
Attack the fundamental cause to correct the problem.

You can't fix it any other way. But you and Eric can't get past step #1.

 

[carpro]

This is where it becomes so difficult to engage in productive dialogue with you. Criticism of someone different than us suddenly becomes a vile attack on everyone in that group.

QUOTE]

The race card.

You're a racist if you do.

 

[jaigner]

"My main concern about abortion is to stop abortion. This can be done by changing hearts. I will do my best to teach people to respect life. All people. All life."

Excellent posts on this subject, friend.

Unfortunately a lot of people don't quite understand the economy of change in the Kingdom of heaven. Heart change is the ultimate goal.

 

[Gina B]

Thank you jaigner. I like the way you phrased that. "the economy of change in the Kingdom of heaven." Gonna have to use that now!

You can't stop it if you don't even recognize that it's a far far greater problem in one segment of the population than any other.

You have to:

Recognize there is a problem.
Identify the causes.
Attack the fundamental cause to correct the problem.

You can't fix it any other way. But you and Eric can't get past step #1.

Excellent. Last night I told my husband that I'd pretty much given up, but I see a glimmer of hope here for you to understand what I've been trying to get across. You listed three things to recognize.

1. Recognize there is a problem.
I agree completely. The problem is abortion.

2. Identify the causes.
I have. The causes are hearts that need the understanding, love, and compassion that only God can put into them, lack of recognition of life, and lack of respect for life.

3. Attack the fundamental cause to correct the problem.

YES! This can be done by This can be done by changing hearts. Teach people to respect life. All people. All life.

That is the big picture. Focus on that and everyone can save lives no matter what color the potential victim may or may not be according to statistics, and right now there are many many victims of every color and race.

Do you know that you can teach English to a classroom of people who speak 5 other languages as a first language? Some have never had to place their tongues in certain positions. Some have learned polluted English. Some can sight-read a bit but do not know phonics.
The problem and the goal is the same for all of them and we do not separate them into different classes and the message remains unaltered no matter who they are, where they came from, and why they are there.

I don't think I can explain my position any further. I hope you understand it now.

Channel that frustration. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[rbell]

So Gina, targeted ad campaigns can't be a part of the plan? Says who?

 

[Eric B]

You can't stop it if you don't even recognize that it's a far far greater problem in one segment of the population than any other.

You have to:

Recognize there is a problem.
Identify the causes.
Attack the fundamental cause to correct the problem.

You can't fix it any other way. But you and Eric can't get past step #1.

And you're getting hung up on explaining 2 and even getting to what 3 is. (Then it registers to in your mind that we have not even addressed point 1) But I guess rbell says that the ad campaigns are #3. (Below).

This is where it becomes so difficult to engage in productive dialogue with you. Criticism of someone different than us suddenly becomes a vile attack on everyone in that group.

Good grief. This was an ad campaign, targeted at black folks, to encourage them to choose life.

And you're against it.

Sheesh.

The race card.

You're a racist if you do.

The problem here is a matter basically, of trust. Criticism of other groups would not be as much of a problem, if it wasn't already such a historical sore spot. And that's on BOTH sides.
Not only do many blacks still remember being called "inferior" (so any group "criticism" sounds suspicious), but now white conservatives themselves still feel unfairly punished for it, and as we see, you're the ones constantly crying "race card! unfair"!
So the question, once again, is why do you then get to play the card when it suits you?
You want to come out and scold another race, but you yourself (the group) seem to still be uptight about the issue yourselves. It's basically someone in a soapbubble film house throwing boulders!

The attitude seem to be "because when we do it, we're right; we have the facts to prove it; when you do it, you're wrong; you're just deceived by the liberals and trying to wrongfully take something from us"

THIS is what the problem is.
And we see the broad overgeneralized stuff people continue to say about the whole race.

So not only does it sound suspicious; it looks suspicious!

Calling the entire race's wombs "dangerous"? Sorry, but you have to find a better way to put things than that. That's an attack on the people (including those not having abortions), not the problem. And if you can't even tell the difference, then that's why you will not be trusted to make such critiques.
But it seems like in your "solutions", anything goes, and some of the other stuff being said seems to indicate belief that the entire people as a group have forfeited the basic respect you and every other human expects. (i.e. you wouldn't like someone to make a remark about whites like that, regardless of how much "truth" is in it; and you get offended at far less).

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Carpro & RBell, the two of you have been great. Thank you for trying.

 

[rbell]

Carpro & RBell, the two of you have been great. Thank you for trying.

You bet.

Usually, I'm very trying. Eric would probably concur. :saint:

 

[just-want-peace]

This thread is one good example of why there will never be harmony among the races this side of eternity!:BangHead:

I s'pose it's the same reason(?) that blacks (not every one - just a disclaimer here) refuse to acknowledge their bros. who have succeeded W/O constantly sucking at the gov. teat, IE: Walter Williams, Clarence Thomas, Bill Cosby, and the new one that I don't remember his name, but recently said he was going to form an exploratory committee for a possible run for POTUS.

The reason(?) - any conflict that involves a white and a black - regardless of the situation - is AUTOMATICALLY BECAUSE THE WHITE IS RACIST!! And though your skin may be black, if you don't subscribe to this tenet, well, you aren't really black. (Just ask JJ if you don't believe it.)

From the article -

“And it should provoke outrage in the African-American community—not because it is racist, but because of the truth it reveals; the truth that is being kept from the African-American community.”

And this from a black, but this thread declares the poster of the OP racist for referencing this article.

Nope, there are always gonna be those who cry racism regardless!!! More's the pity, cause if these types would just shut up, most of this problem would be eliminated.:BangHead:

 

[carpro]

Thank you jaigner. I like the way you phrased that. "the economy of change in the Kingdom of heaven." Gonna have to use that now!



Excellent. Last night I told my husband that I'd pretty much given up, but I see a glimmer of hope here for you to understand what I've been trying to get across. You listed three things to recognize.

1. Recognize there is a problem.
I agree completely. The problem is abortion.

You still haven't recognized the problem that is the subject of this thread, and I don't really expect you to.

Go back and read the OP.
You can keep running from it, but you can't hide. It won't go away and through denial like yours, it may get worse.

Enjoy.

 

[carpro]

And we see the broad overgeneralized stuff people continue to say about the whole race.

So not only does it sound suspicious; it looks suspicious!

Go ahead, Eric. Call me a racist and stop tiptoeing around it.

Your dishonesty is becoming tiring.

Play the card, Eric!!!!!! :thumbs:

 

[Gina B]

So Gina, targeted ad campaigns can't be a part of the plan? Says who?

I don't recall anyone saying they can't. I do recall alluding to the fact that in this situation, the who, what, and why should not have been done. The person who did it claims he did it to start controversy so the issue would be discussed.
He was successful in that.
However, he failed in that he used wrong in an attempt to do right. That never turns out well and is the opposite of what a Christian should do when faced with wrong.

A Christian should try to change hearts. Teach people to respect life. All people. All life.

 

[rbell]

A Christian should try to change hearts. Teach people to respect life. All people. All life.

Obviously, on the grandest of the issues (pro-life vs. pro-abortion, the fact that this is ultimately a spiritual issue, etc.), we agree.

We are simply not going to agree on the issues regarding this case. It's my contention that this campaign does not violate your words I have quoted from you above. You say, I'm assuming, that it does.

Guess we'll agree to disagree. I do think we share more common ground than Eric and I.

When political correctness overtakes the prophetic mandate in the heart and mind of a believer, there will always be victims, and ultimately there will always be judgment. And in this case, the victims are the most defenseless among us. That's why I'm so passionate about it...and that's why I simply can not and will not agree with Eric as to who has the "right" to criticize others when God's just standards are being wantonly trampled.