“As you go” or “Go”

[rlvaughn]

Matthew 28:19 (Greek NT) πορευθεντες ουν μαθητευσατε παντα τα εθνη βαπτιζοντες αυτους εις το ονομα του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος

Matthew 28:19 (Wycliffe Bible, 1382) Therfor go ye, and teche alle folkis, baptisynge hem in the name of the Fadir, and of the Sone, and of the Hooli Goost...

I recently once again ran across an interpretation of Matthew 28:19 that I first heard years ago. It is that this command means something like “as you go, make disciples in all nations.” In other words, the sentence does not have an imperative command to “go” but the command is to make disciples as you are going. Anyone heard this? Anyone hold this view?

The popularity of this view does not seem to be its possible utility in opposing global missions, but rather as something useful for a pastor to prod his people to engage in making disciples while going about their daily lives. I think we can make a biblical cases for being witnesses while we go about our lives, but can that case be made from Matthew 28:19?

The word used and translated go is πορευθέντες (poreuthentes), an aorist participle. Because of this some would say it is not correctly translated. Have our English translators, going back to Wycliffe and Tyndale, consistently overlooked better translations like “as you go” rather than “go”? I believe the following similar sentence constructions using poreuomai as an aorist participle indicate situations where we would not like advocate “as you go.”

Matthew 2:8 - “[Go πορευθεντες] and search diligently for the young child.”
Matthew 9:13 - “But [go πορευθεντες] ye and learn what that meaneth.”
Matthew 11:4 - “[Go πορευθεντες] and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see.”
Matthew 17:27 - “[Go πορευθεις] thou to the sea, and cast an hook...”
Matthew 28:7 - “And [go πορευθεισαι] quickly, and tell his disciples...”

I have looked at this and referenced opinions of biblical scholars. I would be interested in your opinions. Thanks.

[Note: In my search, I found one Bible that gave such a translation, the International Standard Version: Therefore, as you go, disciple people in all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit,]

 

[Ziggy]

In each case, the actual imperative follows the participle. The indication is that the action of the participle has already commenced. Thus, with the aorist participle, "Having gone, make disciples" (which basically implies that you have at least begun to go, thus the reason why some might want to render it "As you go).

I would prefer to retain the more literal participial nature of the word, which is why I prefer" Having gone".

 

[McCree79]

Ben Merkle dedicates an entire chapter to this issue in his book on "exegetical gems". His conclusion is that πορευθέντες is to maintain imperative force ( though it is not an imperative) just like the vast majority of English translations have done.

I am of the mind set that we may be giving too much attention to πορευθέντες here. Matthew/Jesus are emphasizing disciple making. "All nations" certainly suggests a global outreach and Acts 1:8 supports this as well. Acts 1:8 as supports "local missions" well. Whatever your vocation in life is....make disciples. We are all going somewhere....the church needs to go everywhere....if we are of an evangelistic mind set, the "Go" will not be an issue, whether it is "as we go" or if it is to "go".

But if push comes to shove and I have to choose....Merkle's argument and the points above seem too hard to overcome to translate πορευθέντες as "as you go".

I will take a screen shot of Merkle's arguments tomorrow.


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[McCree79]

In each case, the actual imperative follows the participle. The indication is that the action of the participle has already commenced. Thus, with the aorist participle, "Having gone, make disciples" (which basically implies that you have at least begun to go, thus the reason why some might want to render it "As you go).

I would prefer to retain the more literal participial nature of the word, which is why I prefer" Having gone".

If we are to take a "time" significance from the Aorist, it need only be that the "Go" must happen before making disciples. It no way demands the "go" has already begun.(In fact they are told not "go" yet until the Holy Spirit arrives in Acts 1:4) If it was present tense or imperfect, than "as you go" would make more sense.

Regardless participles should been given aspect priority(perfective), and the focus would be on after you "go", make disciples. The action "go" would be viewed as having been completed before one makes disciples.

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[rlvaughn]

In each case, the actual imperative follows the participle. The indication is that the action of the participle has already commenced. Thus, with the aorist participle, "Having gone, make disciples" (which basically implies that you have at least begun to go, thus the reason why some might want to render it "As you go).

I would prefer to retain the more literal participial nature of the word, which is why I prefer "Having gone".

If we are to take a "time" significance from the Aorist, it need only be that the "Go" must happen before making disciples. It no way demands the "go" has already begun.(In fact they are told not "go" yet until the Holy Spirit arrives in Acts 1:4) If it was present tense or imperfect, than "as you go" would make more sense.

Regardless participles should been given aspect priority(perfective), and the focus would be on after you "go", make disciples. The action "go" would be viewed as having been completed before one makes disciples.

Interesting thoughts. Thanks. There are two English translations on Bible Gateway that give the past sense, the Disciples’ Literal New Testament and Young’s Literal Translation: having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them -- to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit...

It is correct that μαθητεύσατε (make disciples) is the imperative. The idea inherent in πορευθέντες does seem to be ‘after you have gone.’ What I have seen in reading some Greek scholars on this is that (they say) the combination of the aorist participle πορευθέντες and aorist imperative μαθητεύσατε basically creates one imperative command -- go make disciples. That is not the scholarly way of explaining it, but the way that seems simplest to me to explain it.

Regardless, it seems ‘as you go’ is a bad rendering and not taught in this place.

 

[kyredneck]

The indication is that the action of the participle has already commenced. Thus, with the aorist participle, "Having gone, make disciples" (which basically implies that you have at least begun to go, thus the reason why some might want to render it "As you go).

18 And having come near, Jesus spake to them, saying, `Given to me was all authority in heaven and on earth;
19 having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them -- to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you,) and lo, I am with you all the days -- till the full end of the age.` Mt 28 YLT

 

[McCree79]

Chapter 22 of Benjamin Merkle's "Exegextical Gems from Biblical Greek" deals with the issue. The chapter is a summary of an earlier essay he wrote. Instead of taking pics of the chapter....which might violate a copy write, I have decided to post his full essay, which he has made public for all to download. View attachment STR+Issue+9.2_Merkle.pdf

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[Van]

Referring to the OP, yes I have heard sermons where "as you go" you need to engage in ministry. Now whether the grammar of this verse is better translated with one of the options presented I will leave that to others, but the truth (perhaps or perhaps not presented in our verse) seems well supported in scripture. As we live our lives, we are to make use of every opportunity to present God's truth.

 

[rlvaughn]

Chapter 22 of Benjamin Merkle's "Exegextical Gems from Biblical Greek" deals with the issue. The chapter is a summary of an earlier essay he wrote. Instead of taking pics of the chapter....which might violate a copy write, I have decided to post his full essay, which he has made public for all to download. View attachment 4463

Thanks for the link; nice read on the subject. Seemed like Merkle went a little out of his way to allow the “as you go” translation might have something of a case. For example, after referencing Daniel Wallace’s grammar, Merkle says:

Therefore, if πορευθέντες is interpreted as a temporal participle, it could be rightly translated “when you go” or “as you go.”

However, when Wallace writes specifically on Matthew 28:19 he says if not translated as an imperative the idea would be “after you have gone,” not “as you go” or “while you are going.” (Nevertheless, Wallace argues it should be translated “go.”) It was interesting to see Merkle’s examples from the Septuagint and other gospels. Also, this is an important point, in my opinion:

Finally, the imperatival function of the participle πορευθέντες is also confirmed by the comparison of the Great Commission with the other commissions given by Jesus as recorded in the Gospels and Acts.

Thanks again.

 

[Dr. Bob]

When I translated this for exposition of Matthew, I used "Having gone, therefore, disciple every ethnicity", with "baptizing" and "teaching" added to show HOW they disciple every ethnicity (much more than simple Gospel message).

 

[JonC]

I understand "go" to be passive (as you go) but μαθητεύω (disciple) to be an active command.

 

[McCree79]

Seemed like Merkle went a little out of his way to allow the “as you go” translation might have something of a case. For example, after referencing Daniel Wallace’s grammar, Merkle says: However, when Wallace writes specifically on Matthew 28:19 he says if not translated as an imperative the idea would be “after you have gone,” not “as you go” or “while you are going.” (Nevertheless, Wallace argues it should be translated “go.”)

Typical Merkle style. He trys to present the best of the opposing argument in a positive light. His style often reminds me of Grudem.

He does also quote Wallace later..... “There is no good grammatical ground for giving the participle a mere temporal idea. To turn
[πορευθέντες] into an adverbial [temporal] participle is to turn the Great
Commission into the Great Suggestion!”

*You are welcome for the Essay. This is a good topic and thread as been very productive and cordial on both sides so far.

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[McCree79]

When I translated this for exposition of Matthew, I used "Having gone, therefore, disciple every ethnicity", with "baptizing" and "teaching" added to show HOW they disciple every ethnicity (much more than simple Gospel message).

Interesting. Looking back at it, do you feel that "ethnicity" is too localized for the verse? It could be taken as just all ethnic groups in the area.

Would you still translate the phrase the same way?

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[rlvaughn]

Typical Merkle style. He trys to present the best of the opposing argument in a positive light.

I am not that familiar with Merkle, but yes, that is exactly the way I took what he was doing. Also, I didn't mean to imply he was misrepresenting Wallace, just that he was really trying to help out the other side!

 

[John of Japan]

I understand "go" to be passive (as you go) but μαθητεύω (disciple) to be an active command.

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but "Go" is actually from πορευομαι, which is a deponent, and therefore cannot be passive. At any rate, unless you are a '60's hippy ("That's real gone, man."), you can't in a passive sense "be gone by somebody."

 

[John of Japan]

When the main verb is imperative (as in "make disciples," μαθητευσατε), the accompanying participle (πορευθεντς) should be taken as having imperatival force. At least that's my view and I'm sticking to it.

 

[JonC]

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but "Go" is actually from πορευομαι, which is a deponent, and therefore cannot be passive. At any rate, unless you are a '60's hippy ("That's real gone, man."), you can't in a passive sense "be gone by somebody."

Two things I need to point out to you, John of Japan.

1. If you do not want to be a wet blanket then don't be a wet blanket. Just go with with the flow.
2. I'm not a '60's hippy...but I am a deadhead.

So don't mess with my mojo, man. I'll get my groove on my way. You get your groove on your way. Just hang loose. You may be down with the man, but that ain't my bag.

 

[JonC]

When the main verb is imperative (as in "make disciples," μαθητευσατε), the accompanying participle (πορευθεντς) should be taken as having imperatival force. At least that's my view and I'm sticking to it.

I didn't mean "passive" in terms of the words used (that was a poor word choice on my part). I mean that I believe the context of the verse assumes the "go" and the focus is on discipling. I believe that we often take the verse to be the opposite - the main point being "go" and the disciple part being secondary.

 

[John of Japan]

I didn't mean "passive" in terms of the words used (that was a poor word choice on my part). I mean that I believe the context of the verse assumes the "go" and the focus is on discipling. I believe that we often take the verse to be the opposite - the main point being "go" and the disciple part being secondary.

Got it. I guess I think more grammatically than most, which can be boring.

 

[John of Japan]

Two things I need to point out to you, John of Japan.

1. If you do not want to be a wet blanket then don't be a wet blanket. Just go with with the flow.
2. I'm not a '60's hippy...but I am a deadhead.

So don't mess with my mojo, man. I'll get my groove on my way. You get your groove on your way. Just hang loose. You may be down with the man, but that ain't my bag.

View attachment 4465

Like man, I'm down with that. It's cool. All is peace and love.