1 Cor 10:31 Giving glory to God

[Don]

The Bible justifies it! It's just you do not!

You have a reading comprehension problem. Go back and find my statement that says YOU can't drink, or that the bible says people can't drink.

(Hint: good luck.)

Romans 14 says nothing is unclean of itself; except to those that, for whatever reason, biblical or not, deem it unclean. If you continue to eat or drink that which they have deemed unclean, in their presence or to their knowledge, you grieve them and walk not in love.

Because they deem a thing to be unclean, they could be considered the weaker brother; and thus, per Romans 15:1, we who are "stronger" must bear the infirmities of the weaker, and watch out for them, without causing them to stumble or speak evil of our good. In other words, eat/drink or abstain with regard to our brethren.

It's not a matter of "can you"; the answer is Yes, you can. The question has always been, "should you?" THAT is when you show regard for your brethren, and especially show the love of Christ, when you do things, or not do them, because you're thinking of others before yourself.

As long as you keep saying "I can," you're not the stronger brother.

 

[JonC]

Both drugs and alcohol are an ancient method of pagans to...commune with the gods.

God demands we maintain self control, and I see no way to do that when we alter the state of our minds. The fruit of the Spirit is temperance. The fruit of the vine...not so much.




God bless.

I agree. I do not understand why someone would want or need to drink alcohol or use any other drug "for the fun of it".

But what, if like me, you start off - relatively speaking - with an altered state of mind?

 

[JonC]

... its not as I only have a drink on occasion for the fun of it.

This is what I was getting at before, brother.

The reason that you drink alcohol is not to glorify God, but "for the fun of it". It is a concession for the flesh, not the spirit.

I believe we all have such things in our lives, things that we do "for the fun of it", but when it comes right down to it we cannot say it glorifies God. The problem here is that you do not recognize that drinking alcohol is not "for the glory of God" but to satisfy your own lusts for pleasure (for the fun of it). The passage that you were referencing concerns food and drink being offered to idols, not the consumption of alcohol. What you need to realize is that you are drinking what is known in the Bible as "strong drink". So you need to be very careful. I worry because you seem to be reaching out to justify drinking.

I am not saying that you should stop, that is not my place. But I am saying that it is an indulgence, not something that glorifies God. You are doing it for the fun of it.

 

[Judith]

Excuse me?????????? What they have done is called Sin!!!!!! Drinking in moderation is not sin. It may be in your eyes but you can't defend your position from scripture.

and exactly what is "drinking in moderation?" Scripture please.

 

[Happy]

1 Cor 10:31 Giving glory to God

[30] For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
[31] Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

What we give for Gods glory, "IS THANKS TO HIM" for what we Do; ie acknowledging AND being thankful, God is our provider.

This was a teaching about the individuals choices and conscience for his own actions.

It was particularly speaking of eating with others, of non-belief, to still give thanks unto God for the food, but to NOT eat with others, IF their feast is dedicated to idols.

[27] If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.

[28] But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

It was particularly speaking of others criticizing FOR eating with others, of non-belief, without consideration, IF the food was dedicated to idols.

[29] Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?

This scripture has nothing to do with being excessive or moderation.

 

[Happy]

and exactly what is "drinking in moderation?" Scripture please.

Phil 4
[5] Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

Moderation is the lack of over excessive.

Drunk is losing control of one's faculties or behavior, caused by being excessive, rather than moderate.

 

[evangelist6589]

So some studies say, however, one can also simply maintain a healthy diet, hence, no need for alcohol.

In this debate I have a pretty simple position: alcohol alters the mind, and does so in varying degree to the extent of the quantity consumed. Maybe a little bit "calms one," or helps them relax, but, are there not other methods? How about reading some Scripture? That always helps me to relax, and helps me put things into a greater perspective.

It is just my opinion that any time someone feels the need to alter the state of their mind, they are departing from looking to God for the state of mind they should be in.To try to couple this with Bible Study (as the article JonC posted does) is a little absurd, for the two work against each other.


God bless.

Strange why you say these things yet quote from RC Sproul whose son wrote the forward to the book that I am reading, and whose father is all for drinking in moderation! Have you read his commentary on John? Are you aware that at Saint Andrews they use wine for communion?

 

[evangelist6589]

I agree. I do not understand why someone would want or need to drink alcohol or use any other drug "for the fun of it".

But what, if like me, you start off - relatively speaking - with an altered state of mind?

Thats because you have a closed mind and are unwilling to read books supporting the drinking of alcohol in moderation. Why not open your mind a little?

 

[evangelist6589]

This is what I was getting at before, brother.

The reason that you drink alcohol is not to glorify God, but "for the fun of it". It is a concession for the flesh, not the spirit.

I believe we all have such things in our lives, things that we do "for the fun of it", but when it comes right down to it we cannot say it glorifies God. The problem here is that you do not recognize that drinking alcohol is not "for the glory of God" but to satisfy your own lusts for pleasure (for the fun of it). The passage that you were referencing concerns food and drink being offered to idols, not the consumption of alcohol. What you need to realize is that you are drinking what is known in the Bible as "strong drink". So you need to be very careful. I worry because you seem to be reaching out to justify drinking.

I am not saying that you should stop, that is not my place. But I am saying that it is an indulgence, not something that glorifies God. You are doing it for the fun of it.

You say this because you are AGAINST alcohol. But the drinking of alcohol can be done to the glory of God.

 

[JonC]

Thats because you have a closed mind and are unwilling to read books supporting the drinking of alcohol in moderation. Why not open your mind a little?

It is not a matter of having a closed mind, but one of having a discerning mind. You must be careful about what you let in.

 

[Happy]

Drug ~ is
a medicine or other substance which has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body.

A Drug is synonymous with medication, pharmaceuticals, certain plants and herbs.

As with other "common" words, Government, via, the Law, can and does "redefine" common words, and gives them a "meaning" other than it's common use language ~ thus making the word a legal description, via Legal Jargon.

Even though some plants and herbs absolutely DO have a physiological effect, they are not via legal jargon considered or defined as a drug, while others are, such as marijuana, opium, cocaine, which comes from plants, as does nutmeg, (not determined illegal) which dependent upon the dose can also have a physiological effect upon a person.

God provides, governments oppress, and mimic nature with chemical compounds, and dictate who can dispense them and take them and all the while "destroy" and "play havoc" on other body parts....but hey, who cares if your chemical compound might want you to commit suicide, you won't have sniffles !

 

[JonC]

You say this because you are AGAINST alcohol. But the drinking of alcohol can be done to the glory of God.

I'm not against alcohol. I asked how you drink it in a way so as to glorify God rather than to indulge your own flesh. Your answer? It's fun.

 

[evangelist6589]

I'm not against alcohol. I asked how you drink it in a way so as to glorify God rather than to indulge your own flesh. Your answer? It's fun.

Yes God does give us pleasures so we can enjoy them to his glory! Are you against pleasure?

 

[evangelist6589]

It is not a matter of having a closed mind, but one of having a discerning mind. You must be careful about what you let in.

There are so many passages in scripture that speak to the positive effects of wine/beer. Pro 31:6-7 would be one such passage speaking to the healing or romantic effects of wine. Also notice that Christ never demonized wine as so many do these days.

 

[InTheLight]

Thats because you have a closed mind and are unwilling to read books supporting the drinking of alcohol in moderation. Why not open your mind a little?

Yeah, have a drink. Loosen up a little. Expand your mind.

Sent from my Moto Droid Turbo.

 

[evangelist6589]

Yeah, have a drink. Loosen up a little. Expand your mind.

Sent from my Moto Droid Turbo.

Go chase a Gremlin!

 

[blessedwife318]

But its not as I only have a drink on occasion for the fun of it.

1We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves. 2Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up. 3For Christ did not please himself, but as it is written, “The reproaches of those who reproached you fell on me.” Romans 15:1-3

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[DC2]

Strange why you say these things yet quote from RC Sproul whose son wrote the forward to the book that I am reading, and whose father is all for drinking in moderation! Have you read his commentary on John? Are you aware that at Saint Andrews they use wine for communion?

(This is Darrell C, had to sign up again due to some issues with my account)

I think a lot of RC, but that does not mean I agree with everything he has to say, particularly when it comes to Christians using alcohol. As a former drug addict and alcoholic I know the horrors of addiction and would no sooner condone their use than I would allow young children to play with guns.

His statement, "The holiness of God is traumatic to unholy people" is a great and true statement. His statement concerning "drinking in moderation" is not.

And I don't know too much about his son, other than he sounds quite a bit like RC, lol.


God bless.

 

[evangelist6589]

(This is Darrell C, had to sign up again due to some issues with my account)

I think a lot of RC, but that does not mean I agree with everything he has to say, particularly when it comes to Christians using alcohol. As a former drug addict and alcoholic I know the horrors of addiction and would no sooner condone their use than I would allow young children to play with guns.

His statement, "The holiness of God is traumatic to unholy people" is a great and true statement. His statement concerning "drinking in moderation" is not.

And I don't know too much about his son, other than he sounds quite a bit like RC, lol.


God bless.

We all are entitled to an opinion. But if you feel the need to abstain then do so. It only makes it wrong when you try and force your POV on others which I hope you will not do.

I fight against teetotalism but am perfectly accepting of those that abstain for personal reasons.

 

[JonC]

Yes God does give us pleasures so we can enjoy them to his glory! Are you against pleasure?

I am for subduing the passions of the flesh. Are you against that?