Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Only tongues, knowledge and prophesy is mentioned in chapter 13 vanishing away...and that will be when we see him face to face and know as we are known. A word of knowledge does not add to or take away from the Word!1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
Words of knowledge is a type of revelation. It has ceased. It is done away with. There is no more revelation being given today.
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
--In the OT God spoke through his prophets in different ways: dreams, visions, audibly, etc.
But now he has ALREADY spoken unto us by his Son. Everything God wants us to know about Christ is written in the 66 books of the Bible. That is how God has spoken to us--through the written Word of God.
Really?2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
--God spoke in the OT through the prophets, and in the NT through the apostles. Peter makes that clear. Then he commands us to be mindful of their words--the prophets and the apostles (and their associates).
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
--Peter refers to Paul's epistles as Scripture. He says some of them are hard to understand, and the unlearned and unstable wrest as they do also the other scriptures to their own destruction. We find this practice among the Charismatics probably more than any other group.
Again! A word of wisdom or a word of knowledge does not take away or add to the Word!Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
--If you, by words of wisdom, words of knowledge, a prophesy here and a prophesy there, etc., add to this book, God will add to you the plagues which are written in this book. It is fitting that this book is placed at the end of the Bible, making these verses applicable not just to Revelation, but to all the Bible.
I agree that the word is complete!2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
--The prophecy (the Word of God) did not come by the will of man--not just any man. But holy men of God spoke (or wrote) as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit moved or directed holy men of God, such as the prophets and Apostles to write the inspired words of God. After that the canon of Scripture was closed.
What do we say?Tell me Awaken. Are you one of those "holy men of old"?
Are the things you and your contemporaries say "inspired of God"?
Doctrine-What is right2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
--Scripture is inspired of God (literally 'God-breathed'). Are the words that you and your contemporaries speak inspired of God. Do they come from the very breathe of God? Are they equal with what "the holy men of old" said?
THis is what I find on most forums when discussing the manifestations of the Spirit....no one really knows much about them!What about the Discerning of Spirits?
Here you have examples of how God gave his inspired revelation to His prophets, His apostles, and those words that he wanted accurately recorded and inspired in the Word of God.Old Testament examples of "word of wisdom"...
Word of Wisdom to Noah. (Gen. 6:13-18)
Word of Wisdom to Joseph (Through dreams Gen. 37-50)
New Testament examples...
John on the Isle of Patmos (through visions)
Ananias (Acts 9) Word of knowledge and Word of Wisdom working together.
Philip (Acts 8)
Yes, "knowledge," revelatory knowledge, not all knowledge. It was knowledge directly used for revelation. What do you think a "word of knowledge is? That is where you are entirely wrong and off base. Your words of knowledge/wisdom makes you entire movement heretical. God is not giving revelation any longer.Only tongues, knowledge and prophesy is mentioned in chapter 13 vanishing away...and that will be when we see him face to face and know as we are known. A word of knowledge does not add to or take away from the Word!
Yes, really. Learn to answer the Scripture given.Really?
It adds to the Word of God. Don't you hear: "God said this to me," and "God said..." "I had a vision and God spoke to me..." etc. This is added revelation.Again! A word of wisdom or a word of knowledge does not take away or add to the Word!
Not if you still believe in words of wisdom/knowledge, and that they are still for today. For in the first century they were vehicles used for revelation before the NT was complete.I agree that the word is complete!
To this:What do we say?
I only quoted the first half of the verse because that is all I needed.Doctrine-What is right
Reproof- what is not right
Correction-How to get it right
instruction- How to stay right
Again, your point?
Start another thread.What about the Discerning of Spirits?
You keep throwing that out there...experience not scripture! I have shown scripture for every doctrine I believe! And I did not believe what others were telling me about their experiences! I am not asking you to believe my experiences! I am asking you to examine the scriptures!Here you have examples of how God gave his inspired revelation to His prophets, His apostles, and those words that he wanted accurately recorded and inspired in the Word of God.
Now you are putting your words on the same par as the Apostles and prophets and claiming inspiration. You infer that by starting of by saying look at these "words of wisdom." If they can get them, so can I. If their words can be inspired then so can mine.
This is heresy. The canon of Scripture is closed. The apostles taught the early believers which books were inspired and which were not.
Look at the OT for example. By ca. 450 the canon of the OT was complete.
The Jews would not even consider any book written after the date of 400 B.C. worthy of being canonical. Thus the deuteronomical books were automatically excluded by the Jews. They were written by those who either held the prophetic office or had the prophetic gift at some time. Their books had no contradiction in them and never contradicted any other book. They had an air of authority to them. Most of all God led them to believe that they were inspired as God led the Jewish nation throughout their history.
You need to study how both OT and NT canon of Scripture came to be. We have 66 books of the Bible written by about 40 authors over a period of about 1500 years, having no contradictions, and all centered around the same them--redemption through Christ.
If the canon was open, that is, if God was still giving words of knowledge or wisdom, then you could take upon yourself the obligation to go to every part of the world and gather every prophecy, word of wisdom or knowledge that has ever been spoken and claimed to be from God, write it down, collate them all and preserve them in a book or books, so that we might have the entire Word of God. Do you think you could do that?
If there is no closed canon; if it is still open, then where is the inspired Word of God today?
We don't have one. The Charismatics don't have a Bible. They are entirely confused. They base their doctrine on experience not on Scripture.
Discerning of spirits is in 1 Cor. 12-14!Start another thread.
"Hath God said?"You keep throwing that out there...experience not scripture! I have shown scripture for every doctrine I believe! And I did not believe what others were telling me about their experiences! I am not asking you to believe my experiences! I am asking you to examine the scriptures!
ANother point! Ananias and Phillip did not write any of the Bible!
Scripture and verse for this! I have already posted what I believe is a word of knowledge..go back and read it!Yes, "knowledge," revelatory knowledge, not all knowledge. It was knowledge directly used for revelation. What do you think a "word of knowledge is? That is where you are entirely wrong and off base. Your words of knowledge/wisdom makes you entire movement heretical. God is not giving revelation any longer.
How is it added to the Bible! If God gives me a word of knowledge about something in my life...how does that change scriptures?Yes, really. Learn to answer the Scripture given.
It adds to the Word of God. Don't you hear: "God said this to me," and "God said..." "I had a vision and God spoke to me..." etc. This is added revelation.
wow!Not if you still believe in words of wisdom/knowledge, and that they are still for today. For in the first century they were vehicles used for revelation before the NT was complete.
To this:
Tell me Awaken. Are you one of those "holy men of old"?
Are the things you and your contemporaries say "inspired of God"?
Nothing of course. It would be heretical if you did.
You are not in the category of "holy men of old"
You words are not "inspired of God."
What you believe is heresy.
In fact my guess is, that you are not even a "man" much less a "holy man."
What you seem to miss in Corinthians is that the manifestations of the Spirit were given to the church! We are the church!I only quoted the first half of the verse because that is all I needed.
The part you quoted is quite irrelevant to your situation because the words you quote are not inspired. Here it is again:
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
The Scripture is inspired of God; not your words.
That is my point. Understand it well.
And I am not recording a book either! I am living from day to day and the Holy Spirit is there to help me every step of the way! If He wants to give me a word of knowledge concerning my life! I welcome it! I do not try to explain it away because I do not experience it!"Hath God said?"
"Thou shalt not surely die."
Whose words are those?
They are the inspired words of scripture, inspired the Spirit of God himself, recorded accurately just as God wanted them to be, even though they were spoken by Satan. Satan didn't record them, Moses did the writing. God revealed to Moses what to write. Inspiration involves accurately recording what God wants to be written. The history written is "His Story."
God told Luke what to write. Luke was the author of the book of Acts. The words that Luke recorded were under the influence of the Holy Spirit. When Luke was finished what he had written were the very words of God. It was inspired of God as no other book could ever be. Thus we know that whatever Ananias or Philip said, that is recorded in the pages of the Bible itself the Holy Spirit recorded. It is God that said so. I don't argue with what God said.
But when it comes to Charismatic experiences I just file them away in file 13.
Luke wrote the Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts. He was commanded to do so under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. He was a companion to the Apostle Paul, and went with Paul on his journeys. Paul kept close company with all the Apostles. Luke also then, had first hand information from the Apostles.And I am not recording a book either! I am living from day to day and the Holy Spirit is there to help me every step of the way! If He wants to give me a word of knowledge concerning my life! I welcome it! I do not try to explain it away because I do not experience it!
The word of knowledge is still here..just like the other 8 manifestations! They were given to the church...for the church! The last time I looked the church and the Holy Spirit is still here until the fulfilment of the church age!
Your point that there is false prophets out there! I agree!Let's use one famous Charismatic for an example--my favorite--Benny Hinn.
Some of his prophecies:
"The Spirit tells me - Fidel Castro will die - in the 90's. Oooh my! Some will try to kill him and they will not succeed. But there will come a change in his physical health, and he will not stay in power, and Cuba will be visited of God."
- Benny Hinn."The Lord also tells me to tell you in the mid 90's, about '94-'95, no later than that, God will destroy the homosexual community of America. [audience applauds] But He will not destroy it - with what many minds have thought Him to be, He will destroy it with fire. And many will turn and be saved, and many will rebel and be destroyed."
Orlando Christian Center, Dec. 31st, 1989.
- Benny Hinn.JESUS WILL APPEAR PHYSICALLY
BEFORE THE SECOND COMING! Is there nothing that TBN or Benny Hinn will not stoop to in order to extract money from viewers? Well, to top everything, Benny Hinn claimed that Jesus is now physically appearing in Moslem countries, and he predicted on the April 2nd 2000 TBN broadcast that Jesus will appear physically very soon in many churches to signal the nearness of the second coming, and that Jesus would also appear physically on the stage at his crusade in Nairobi Kenya (29th -30th of April, 2000)! He told Paul Crouch he might very well have video of Jesus on the stage when he returned from his trip to Kenya!
April 20th, 2000 - This Is Your Day
"Ruth Heflin: the Lord spoke to her recently, and she called my wife and told her to tell me, that Jesus said to her, that He will appear physically on the platform in one of our crusades. [Harald Bredesen] My! [Benny] She said, 'Tell Benny, that the Lord told me, that He is going to appear physically, on the platform, and the crowds will see Him, on the platform.' [Harald Bredesen] Jesus! [Benny] Dear God my hair is standing up! [Harald Bredesen] Praise God! [Benny] It may very well happen in Nashville!" ...
"... think about what's going to happen when the people, thousands, she said thousands will see the Lord on the, on the, on the platform! Lord may it happen in every crusade this year in Jesus mighty name."
- Benny Hinn.
http://www.biblelight.net/tbn.htm
Like many other Charismatics Benny Hinn is a false prophet. He believes he receives inspired revelation from God. He has done this dozens of times if not hundreds. But his prophecies are false. The Bible says that a prophet must be 100% accurate. If he fails in just one prophecy, then he is a false prophet. Benny fails most of the time if not all the time. He does not speak to God. I don't believe any of the Charismatics speak for God. Then who do the speak for? The answer to that question is not difficult.
ONe must first renew their minds by the word of God!Luke wrote the Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts. He was commanded to do so under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. He was a companion to the Apostle Paul, and went with Paul on his journeys. Paul kept close company with all the Apostles. Luke also then, had first hand information from the Apostles.
What do you have? Ecstatic gibberish, a psychological experience where you allow your mind to be by-passed by the subconscious and actually open it up to the influence of demons. That is dangerous fire you play with, and it is not of God.
I have not seen God give the gift of languages to anyone in my age.
I have not seen God give the gift of healing to anyone in my age.
I have not seen God give the gift of miracles to anyone in my age.
All of these are passed. If they still were continuing they would be evident, but they are not evident. There are no cases where anyone is practicing practicing them. You can't even point to any evidence.
But what kind of company do you keep?ONe must first renew their minds by the word of God!
What do I have? I have a Saviour that loves me and died for me! I have a Father that sent the Holy Spirit by my Savior to be my comforter here on earth! I have a wonderful salvation that I am walking out by the power of the Holy Spirit!
But what kind of company do you keep?
Your doctrine is Charismatic doctrine. That automatically associates you with people like Benny Hinn and his ilk. The Bible says to come out from among them and be separate. Separate yourself from ungodliness, from unbelievers, etc. Read again 2Cor.6:14-17.
Benny Hinn is not a believer. You cannot believe in the doctrine that Benny Hinn believes and be a Christian at the same time. But you have surrounded yourself with his company and others like him simply because you are a Charismatic.
As John has been pointing out you are a friend of those that split churches. You even suggested that those evil people were of God. Their sinful acts were Godly acts??? How do you end up condoning sin? Is God the author of sin in your theology also?
Your post seems to defend Charismatics and condemn Baptists.
You don't think that we renew our minds?? Was that an accusation against us? It sounds like it.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
--Examine the verse. You are transformed and renewed in your mind by not being conformed to this world. The two go hand in hand. If you have anything to do with this world you are not being renewed in your mind. God hates worldliness.
All who post here believe in Christ as our Savior, and that he died for us.
All who post here believe in the Father, and that he sent the Holy Spirit, but that was at the Day of Pentecost. Every believer receives the Holy Spirit on the day of their salvation. I am glad to hear you have a wonderful salvation.
In what way do you think you are walking in the power of the Holy Spirit, since the power of the Holy Spirit is only given for specific purposes?
Three simple points:
1. A maximum of three people can speak in tongues during a church service. Pretty hard to interpret this truth differently, the verse says “If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three…” So if four people speak in tongues at a church service, at least the fourth person sinned.
2. One tongues’ speaker at a time. Verse 27 continues: “…and each in turn…” If multiple people are speaking in tongues simultaneously, they are all culpable.
3. All tongues’ speakers (Max. of three and in turn) must be translated. Again, the command is clear: “and let someone interpret.” The next verse make the point even more emphatic: “But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church…” (1 Cor. 14:28).
Actually it is the other way around. You are reading into my post what I did not say. Here is what I said:I will let your post speak for itself! You just said you can not be saved and believe that the Holy Spirit manifest himself today!
You accuse me for the last time! I will no longer respond to your post of resentment and bitterness!
YOu read into my post what I do not say!