1 Cor. 12-14

[awaken]

Well, if it is a language, it is either miraculous or learned. It is not miraculous in 1 Cor. 12-14, so it is learned. Case closed.

Define miracle! Last time I studied it ..it is a superantual intervention in the ordinary course of nature, a teporary suspension of the accustomed order, or an interruption in th sytem of nature as we know it, operated by the power of the Holy Spirit.
So you are saying that tongues can happen without the new birth/Holy Spirit.

Nor did you condemn the Charismatics who wickedly stole the sheep. You seemed to think it was fine. Sheep stealing is okay in the view you posted, as long as it is the Charismatics who are stealing. That is the clear implication of what you wrote.

I do not know where you are coming from with this??

By saying it was Satan's work to stop the Charismatics, ergo, since I did not believe in tongues, the Charismatics were right to steal away the precious Japanese sheep that I had labored and sacrificed and wept and prayed to win to Christ. You showed no concern at all for God's shepherd--all was hunky dorey since it was the Charismatics had done it.

I am sorry you are offended that YOUR sheep left, but don't take it out on me! (If they are truly saved...they are God's sheep by the way and IF they are lead astray, He will go after them)

I heard of a missionary in Japan who went on furlough and while he was gone a Charismatic came in and stole the whole church. But I guess that's okay with you. Tha was actually the main operating procedure in the 1960s when the movement started. So you are advocating a sheep stealing movement.
Yes, your mistaken interpretation is very clear. Paul spoke of praying with his own spirit, therefore, to you every mention of prayer and the Holy Spirit is tongues. Very weak.

I have proven that Paul said "praying in the spirit" is speaking to God. Speaking to God is praying!

The Bible said it. That settles it. I believe it.

I believe the Bible too! I just do not buy everyones interpretation of it!

You wouldn't have such trouble if you simply took the Bible as it says. There are no tongues in Jude and Eph. where praying in the Holy Spirit is mentioned. Period. End of story. You can squirm all you want, it doesn't change the Bible.

Oh, I am not squirming! God gave me a peace about this a long time ago! I am walking in it and it is a wonderful journey! Praying in the spirit is a gift from God!

 

[awaken]

And Paul said they don't edify; they confuse. He told the Corinthians to seek to prophesy, not to speak in tongues for there is no understanding with tongues and therefore unfruitful.

Only if they are done out of order in the assembly. He told them not to speak UNLESS he could interpret!

Read the Book of Acts. Paul went to the Jew first and then to the Greek. He went into the synagogues first, and then to the Gentiles. Tongues were a sign to the unbelieving Jew (1Cor.14:21,22). I can quote the Bible for you; point you to the Scriptures, but it is a pity when it is right before your eyes and you deny it.

I am not denying that He went to the Jew first and then to the Gentiles. But He was talking to a Gentile church and an unbeliever could have been either Jew are Gentile!

(CEV) The Spirit has given each of us a special way of serving others.

(LITV) And to each one is given the showing forth of the Spirit to our profit.

(MKJV) But to each one is given the showing forth of the Spirit to our profit.

It is not a selfish gift. As the CEV puts it, it is for the service for others. You misunderstand the verse. "Our profit" is the profit of the church," the edification of all in the church.

I never said it was selfish..stop putting words in my post! To edify yourself is not a bad thing...read Jude 20! Jude tells them to build themselves up.

IF you were on a football team and worked out at home by yourself, is this selfish or will it edify the team.
To build ones spirit up will edify the body!
If I exercise my arms it will benifit my physical body!
So you have proven nothing by denying one to build himself up! Because like I said before, Jude tells us too!

I did prove it through Scriptures. You just didn't bother to look them up. I will quote them for you this time:

2 Corinthians 12:11 I am become foolish: ye compelled me; for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing was I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I am nothing.
12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, by signs and wonders and mighty works.

Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great a salvation? which having at the first been spoken through the Lord, was confirmed unto us by them that heard;
4 God also bearing witness with them, both by signs and wonders, and by manifold powers, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to his own will.
--This verse specifically says that the gifts of the Holy Spirit were signs that bore witness of the Apostles witness to the Lord Jesus Christ.

I did look them up! But they do not prove that was the only reason for them, because others besides the apostles spoke in tongue and performed miracles.

You ignore context, as per usual.
Do you ignore the context of Isaiah 3 also?
Are you wearing cauls, tires, wimples, mufflers, etc.?

No, I just don't take them out of context to prove a point!

In the latter part of Mark 16 Jesus is giving specific instructions to his disciples or apostles. If you want to test these commands and make them personal I would challenge you to pick up some draino and start drinking it, along with other poisonous substances and see if they will harm you. Isn't that what it says? If you drink any poisonous thing it will not harm you? Funny, how the Charismatics always ignore that part. :laugh:

I would say it is funny how you do not read my post..but it is really sad to make such fun of the scriptures.
That does not tell us to take up poison and drink it, no where in scriptures does it tell us too! If you would open up your spiritual eyes and hear what the Holy Spirit is trying to say to you here, it would make more sense to you!

Here is a demonstration of the GIFT of healing:
Acts 5:16 And there also came together the multitudes from the cities round about Jerusalem, bring sick folk, and them that were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
--Note that multitudes came from ALL the cities surrounding Jerusalem. These were thousands of people that were sick, for the city of Jerusalem itself was a huge city. No one was turned away: blind, crippled, or otherwise. All were healed. No exceptions.
The equivalent of that today would be one who claimed they had the gift and would be able to into the ER's of the hospitals of any city and heal them all; go up and down the corridors of all the hospitals and heal all that are there--in short to heal all that come to him.
The fact is there is no one in this world that can do this, just as there is no one in the world today that has the Biblical gift of tongues. They have ceased.

You are missing some very important facts here...these people came to Jesus!
If the New Testament tells us to clear out hospitals then that's what we should do.

What we find in the Gospels, however, is that Jesus didn't always heal everyone around Him, nor did He go out in search of people to heal. He healed everyone who came to Him. He healed a lame man at the pool of Bethesda, but apparently He didn't heal any of the other disabled people there (John 5:2-9). He went in and out of the temple gate many times, yet He never healed a beggar there who was crippled from birth (Acts 3:2-8). There are a number of passages which say that Jesus healed all of the sick people in various places, but these were people who came to Him or who were brought to Him. These were not people whom Jesus sought out to heal.

Since Jesus didn't automatically heal everyone around Him, and since He didn't seek out people to heal, and since there's no record of Him going around emptying out leper colonies, we have no Scriptural precedent for trying to empty out hospitals.

If the Holy Spirit leads us to visit a hospital and go around healing people then that's what we should do. But otherwise it's not likely to be fruitful if most of the patients have not had their hearts prepared to respond in faith

Yes he did. He was an apostle. He lived in the first century. The canon of scripture was not yet complete. Unbelieving Jews were always present. He spoke with an interpreter. He followed the very guidelines that he set down for others.

But you don't care about that do you?

Where were the interpreters in Acts 10 and Acts 19?

 

[DHK]

Only if they are done out of order in the assembly. He told them not to speak UNLESS he could interpret!

And that is not what was happening was it?
In fact that doesn't happen in most churches that speak in tongues. They don't speak in order. They don't have interpreters. Everything is chaotic. They do exact opposite to what Paul taught. Paul even taught that women should keep silence in the church (in reference to tongues). I bet they don't obey that guideline either, do they?
When you speak/pray in tongues you have no idea what you are saying.
You stand on unbiblical and dangerous ground--the ground of the devil himself. It is not of God. You cannot even keep the guidelines Paul set forth.

I am not denying that He went to the Jew first and then to the Gentiles. But He was talking to a Gentile church and an unbeliever could have been either Jew are Gentile!

Study the book of Ephesians. When a Gentile became a Christian he was no longer a Gentile. When a Jew became a Christian he was no longer a Jew. We are one in Christ. Thus there is no "Gentile church" or "Jewish church," there is only the "church of God," as Paul calls it (1Cor.10:32).

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give no occasions of stumbling, either to Jews, or to Greeks, or to the church of God.

I never said it was selfish..stop putting words in my post! To edify yourself is not a bad thing...read Jude 20! Jude tells them to build themselves up.

Through prayer, Bible study, church attendance, Christian fellowship, etc., but never through tongues. Why are you reading into Scripture something that is not there?

IF you were on a football team and worked out at home by yourself, is this selfish or will it edify the team.
To build ones spirit up will edify the body!
If I exercise my arms it will benifit my physical body!
So you have proven nothing by denying one to build himself up! Because like I said before, Jude tells us too!

Jude says nothing about tongues. He says as much about baptism and the healing of the sick as he does about tongues--nothing.

Your analogy is wrong. If in every single play in the game, the quarter-back called for a quarter-back sneak; in other words he always kept the ball to himself, that would be selfish. His duty is to involve all the players--to pass it to his various receivers, to hand it off to his full back and other ball carriers--in short to involve everyone on the team. He cannot be a selfish player hogging the ball to himself on every play. The team consists of just more than one player.

ALL of the spiritual gifts were given to the entire local church. Not one of them was for "selfish" use. They were to edify the entire body. There is no such thing as a gift of helps just to help yourself, or a gift of administration just to administer yourself, or a gift of healing just to heal yourself, etc. All those gifts were for the ministry of all the church not just for one person. So was the gift of tongues. It was for the ministry of ALL the church.

I did look them up! But they do not prove that was the only reason for them, because others besides the apostles spoke in tongue and performed miracles.

But the apostles did more than them. Do you deny the Scriptures then??
What do the Scriptures mean when in two different places it says that they were the signs of an apostle. Are you in denial?
Yes there are other reasons. But none of them apply to you.

I would say it is funny how you do not read my post..but it is really sad to make such fun of the scriptures.
That does not tell us to take up poison and drink it, no where in scriptures does it tell us too! If you would open up your spiritual eyes and hear what the Holy Spirit is trying to say to you here, it would make more sense to you!

Mark 16:18 they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Either you are ignorant of Scriptures or hypocritical, which is it?
Why not pick up some deadly thing (like Draino, or even HCL ) and prove your faith--that it will in no wise harm you.
You are the one saying that this Scripture is applicable to us today.
Don't be hypocritical and go back on your words.

You are missing some very important facts here...these people came to Jesus!
If the New Testament tells us to clear out hospitals then that's what we should do.

1. They didn't come to Jesus in Acts 5:16. It is an event that talks about Peter's ministry.
2. They came to Peter because they knew Peter had the gift of healing.
3. No one today has that gift. For example, people are deluded into thinking people like Benny Hinn has that gift, and Hinn draws large crowds. But Hinn is a fraud, and doesn't have that gift.
4. If someone actually had the gift of healing large crowds would come to him.
5. If he were a Godly individual he would go to where the sick people are; where the sick people can't come to him.
6. If you were a thinking individual you would realize that there were no hospitals in Jesus and Peter's day.

What we find in the Gospels, however, is that Jesus didn't always heal everyone around Him, nor did He go out in search of people to heal. He healed everyone who came to Him. He healed a lame man at the pool of Bethesda, but apparently He didn't heal any of the other disabled people there (John 5:2-9). He went in and out of the temple gate many times, yet He never healed a beggar there who was crippled from birth (Acts 3:2-8).

Peter and John, by the power of the Lord healed that person, and then Peter made it clear that he did not heal that person, but the Lord did it.

There are a number of passages which say that Jesus healed all of the sick people in various places, but these were people who came to Him or who were brought to Him. These were not people whom Jesus sought out to heal.

Nevertheless he healed all who came to him without excuse.

Since Jesus didn't automatically heal everyone around Him, and since He didn't seek out people to heal, and since there's no record of Him going around emptying out leper colonies, we have no Scriptural precedent for trying to empty out hospitals.

There were no hospitals, Duh!

If the Holy Spirit leads us to visit a hospital and go around healing people then that's what we should do. But otherwise it's not likely to be fruitful if most of the patients have not had their hearts prepared to respond in faith

It has nothing to do with people responding in faith. That is a false belief. People were healed whether they responded in faith or not. If the "so-called faith healers" of today were healing people, they would have to admit that if they failed, it would be their faith that failed, and not the sick person's.

In James it says: "And the prayer of faith shall save the sick."
The prayer of faith is whose prayer?? It is the prayer of the pastor, not the sick person!

Where were the interpreters in Acts 10 and Acts 19?

Perhaps the apostles themselves were given the gift of interpretation themselves. There were some that had both the gift of tongues and the gift of interpretation. You can read about that in 1Cor.14.

 

[John of Japan]

I am sorry you are offended that YOUR sheep left, but don't take it out on me! (If they are truly saved...they are God's sheep by the way and IF they are lead astray, He will go after them)

You are very obviously not a pastor. You simply don't understand the heart of a pastor. Your were very offensive in your "Satan did it, not the Charismatics" post. And now you are flippant at deep hurts. I've been treating you with respect, but frankly I've lost all respect for you at that. You're like all the other Charismatics--split the non-tongues speaking church and that's okay with you. Steal all the sheep you can from pastors that don't agree with your tongues!

 

[John of Japan]

There is a lot of online help if you desire it.
Here is an example:

http://www.teachingpages.co.uk/spiritequip.php?articleGroanings​

When you have to learn it you know it is not of God.
I know it is not of God anyway, just further proof. ​

I like the part "groanings that cannot be uttered." Is that an oxymoron or what?????????​

Man, you can find anything on the Internet! :laugh:

 

[awaken]

And that is not what was happening was it?
In fact that doesn't happen in most churches that speak in tongues. They don't speak in order. They don't have interpreters. Everything is chaotic. They do exact opposite to what Paul taught. Paul even taught that women should keep silence in the church (in reference to tongues). I bet they don't obey that guideline either, do they?
That was not in reference to tongues concerning the women! Your way off base on that one! As far as all churches I can not speak, but the ones I have been in has always been orderly. As a matter of fact tongues is the least manifestation in the service.

When you speak/pray in tongues you have no idea what you are saying.
You stand on unbiblical and dangerous ground--the ground of the devil himself. It is not of God. You cannot even keep the guidelines Paul set forth.

The dangerous ground here is that you are given the devil credit for something the Holy Spirit is doing.

Study the book of Ephesians. When a Gentile became a Christian he was no longer a Gentile. When a Jew became a Christian he was no longer a Jew. We are one in Christ. Thus there is no "Gentile church" or "Jewish church," there is only the "church of God," as Paul calls it (1Cor.10:32).

I agree that in Christ we are one. But Corinthians was a Gentile church.

Through prayer, Bible study, church attendance, Christian fellowship, etc., but never through tongues. Why are you reading into Scripture something that is not there?

Jude says nothing about tongues. He says as much about baptism and the healing of the sick as he does about tongues--nothing.

Jude 20 speaks of praying in the Holy Ghost...Paul calls tongue, praying in the spirit.

Your analogy is wrong. If in every single play in the game, the quarter-back called for a quarter-back sneak; in other words he always kept the ball to himself, that would be selfish. His duty is to involve all the players--to pass it to his various receivers, to hand it off to his full back and other ball carriers--in short to involve everyone on the team. He cannot be a selfish player hogging the ball to himself on every play. The team consists of just more than one player.

Wow! Are you serious, YOu never addressed my analogy...As a player at home in private working out, you say that does not benefit the whole team! Get real!

ALL of the spiritual gifts were given to the entire local church. Not one of them was for "selfish" use. They were to edify the entire body. There is no such thing as a gift of helps just to help yourself, or a gift of administration just to administer yourself, or a gift of healing just to heal yourself, etc. All those gifts were for the ministry of all the church not just for one person. So was the gift of tongues. It was for the ministry of ALL the church.

You keep going on and on like edifying yourself is a sin and calling it selfish! Jude tell you to build YOURSELF up!

But the apostles did more than them. Do you deny the Scriptures then??
What do the Scriptures mean when in two different places it says that they were the signs of an apostle. Are you in denial?
Yes there are other reasons. But none of them apply to you.

What? Just because someone does more...the others are worthless?

Mark 16:18 they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Either you are ignorant of Scriptures or hypocritical, which is it?
Why not pick up some deadly thing (like Draino, or even HCL ) and prove your faith--that it will in no wise harm you.
You are the one saying that this Scripture is applicable to us today.
Don't be hypocritical and go back on your words.

You are being unreasonable because you have nothing else to say! I have explained this!

1. They didn't come to Jesus in Acts 5:16. It is an event that talks about Peter's ministry.
2. They came to Peter because they knew Peter had the gift of healing.
3. No one today has that gift. For example, people are deluded into thinking people like Benny Hinn has that gift, and Hinn draws large crowds. But Hinn is a fraud, and doesn't have that gift.
4. If someone actually had the gift of healing large crowds would come to him.
5. If he were a Godly individual he would go to where the sick people are; where the sick people can't come to him.
6. If you were a thinking individual you would realize that there were no hospitals in Jesus and Peter's day.

Peter and John, by the power of the Lord healed that person, and then Peter made it clear that he did not heal that person, but the Lord did it.

Nevertheless he healed all who came to him without excuse.

There were no hospitals, Duh!

It has nothing to do with people responding in faith. That is a false belief. People were healed whether they responded in faith or not. If the "so-called faith healers" of today were healing people, they would have to admit that if they failed, it would be their faith that failed, and not the sick person's.

In James it says: "And the prayer of faith shall save the sick."
The prayer of faith is whose prayer?? It is the prayer of the pastor, not the sick person!

Perhaps the apostles themselves were given the gift of interpretation themselves. There were some that had both the gift of tongues and the gift of interpretation. You can read about that in 1Cor.14.

You need to read more on healing in the Bible before you post!

 

[DHK]

And that is not what was happening was it?
In fact that doesn't happen in most churches that speak in tongues. They don't speak in order. They don't have interpreters. Everything is chaotic. They do exact opposite to what Paul taught. Paul even taught that women should keep silence in the church (in reference to tongues). I bet they don't obey that guideline either, do they?

That was not in reference to tongues concerning the women! Your way off base on that one! As far as all churches I can not speak, but the ones I have been in has always been orderly. As a matter of fact tongues is the least manifestation in the service.

1 Corinthians 14:33 for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
34 let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.
35 And if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home: for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church.
--Verse 33: Confusion was caused by speaking in tongues.
--Verse 34: Since much of that confusion was caused by the women they were to be silent. Furthermore, even in his epistles to Timothy women are not permitted to teach men, nor to have authority over men.
--Verse 35: It is shameful for them to speak at all in church. It is the responsibility of the pastor to be preaching and teaching the flock of God, not the women. What a travesty to see women trying to do this, whether in tongues or otherwise.

1 Peter 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be the outward adorning of braiding the hair, and of wearing jewels of gold, or of putting on apparel;
4 but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptible apparel of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5 For after this manner aforetime the holy women also, who hoped in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands:
--Women speaking out in other tongues do not have a meek and quiet spirit do they?

The dangerous ground here is that you are given the devil credit for something the Holy Spirit is doing.

Be honest. I give credit where credit is due. You should look at things more objectively and honestly as well.

I agree that in Christ we are one. But Corinthians was a Gentile church.

That is a contradiction. If we are one in Christ, then it is not a Gentile church is it. It is a Christian church, or as Paul said, "a church of God."

Jude 20 speaks of praying in the Holy Ghost...Paul calls tongue, praying in the spirit.

I pray in the spirit all the time; but I have never spoken in tongues. Your understanding is very limited. Jude says nothing about tongues. Paul does not equate tongues or even relate it any way to praying in the spirit. That relationship does not exist.

Wow! Are you serious, YOu never addressed my analogy...As a player at home in private working out, you say that does not benefit the whole team! Get real!

The gift of tongues is not; never was a private gift. It was meant for the entire church. Learn the facts. It was never meant for one's own selfish use. Like the gift of administration, helps, healing, etc., they cannot be practiced privately. Please learn the facts. They are gifts given for the edification of the whole church.

You keep going on and on like edifying yourself is a sin and calling it selfish! Jude tell you to build YOURSELF up!

There are ways to edify yourself, but tongues is not one of them. The gift of tongues is a first century gift given to first century believers for first century churches. It was not a private selfish gift, as some of the first century Corinthians were using it.

What? Just because someone does more...the others are worthless?

You are still in denial aren't you. You still will not admit that 2Cor.12:12 and Heb.2:3,4 are inspired of God, and were written for a purpose. One of the important reasons of the gift of tongues was to identify the apostles as genuine messengers of God's Word, and that their message was genuine as well. But now we have the completed Word of God. We don't need the gift of tongues any longer. The apostles have died. The Word is completed. The usefulness of tongues have ceased.

You are being unreasonable because you have nothing else to say! I have explained this!

Mark 16:18 they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
--You didn't explain it. In fact you denied it. You went so far as to say that the bolded part of the verse was not to be found anywhere in the Bible. So don't say you have explained it. You outright denied its existence in Scripture.

You need to read more on healing in the Bible before you post!

I have studied much on it--perhaps more than you ever will. The gift of healing ceased (like tongues have). You cannot show me an example of one person on this earth who has the gift of healing.

Does God heal? Yes he does. I have never denied that. But no one today has the GIFT of healing. God heals in answer to prayer. He sometimes heals according to what is written in James 5. But there are no "Biblical" faith healers today. People who claim to be faith healers, like Benny Hinn, are all frauds. If you think I am wrong, I challenge you to refute me.

 

[awaken]

1 Corinthians 14:33 for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
34 let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.
35 And if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home: for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church.
--Verse 33: Confusion was caused by speaking in tongues.
--Verse 34: Since much of that confusion was caused by the women they were to be silent. Furthermore, even in his epistles to Timothy women are not permitted to teach men, nor to have authority over men.
--Verse 35: It is shameful for them to speak at all in church. It is the responsibility of the pastor to be preaching and teaching the flock of God, not the women. What a travesty to see women trying to do this, whether in tongues or otherwise.

Again..your kidding! right? Where is vs. 26 in your theory? ..."WHen you come together, EVERY ONE of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretaion. Let all things be done unto edifying." He says we all have something to give to the body! Just do it in order without the confusion! He was correcting the whole service, not just tongues! You went out on a limb concerning the wemon on this one!

1 Peter 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be the outward adorning of braiding the hair, and of wearing jewels of gold, or of putting on apparel;
4 but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptible apparel of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5 For after this manner aforetime the holy women also, who hoped in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands:
--Women speaking out in other tongues do not have a meek and quiet spirit do they?

Be honest. I give credit where credit is due. You should look at things more objectively and honestly as well.

THe most powerful message in tongues I have ever heard came from a woman in church! Again you are way off base on this one! Wemon are to be in subjection (authority) of their husbands at all times not just church.

That is a contradiction. If we are one in Christ, then it is not a Gentile church is it. It is a Christian church, or as Paul said, "a church of God."

I agreed to that! READ MY POST without seaching all the wrong in them and you will not miss it! But Paul was called to the Gentiles!

I pray in the spirit all the time; but I have never spoken in tongues. Your understanding is very limited. Jude says nothing about tongues. Paul does not equate tongues or even relate it any way to praying in the spirit. That relationship does not exist.

Again...how much plainer does Paul have to get! "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, MY SPIRIT PRAYETH, but my understanding is unfruitful(does not understand what he is praying unless he prays for interpretation like the above verse says)." "..I will pray with the spirit (just said in above verse tongue is praying with the spirit) AND I will with understanding ALSO." THey even blesses with their spirit and Paul said it is WELL! ...just edify the church with interpretation!

The gift of tongues is not; never was a private gift. It was meant for the entire church. Learn the facts. It was never meant for one's own selfish use. Like the gift of administration, helps, healing, etc., they cannot be practiced privately. Please learn the facts. They are gifts given for the edification of the whole church.

I will not discuss this issue with you any longer! vs 4 says it edifys himself..Jude tells us to build ourselves up! It is benificial to the body if I pray in tongues and build my spirit up! Yes! they were given to the church...for the church...and the church is still here...and the manifestations of the Holy Spirit is still here!

There are ways to edify yourself, but tongues is not one of them. The gift of tongues is a first century gift given to first century believers for first century churches. It was not a private selfish gift, as some of the first century Corinthians were using it.

Take it up with Paul then!

You are still in denial aren't you. You still will not admit that 2Cor.12:12 and Heb.2:3,4 are inspired of God, and were written for a purpose. One of the important reasons of the gift of tongues was to identify the apostles as genuine messengers of God's Word, and that their message was genuine as well. But now we have the completed Word of God. We don't need the gift of tongues any longer. The apostles have died. The Word is completed. The usefulness of tongues have ceased.

I was warned that one of the tactics in someone defending cessationalism would be how you are doing now! If anyone reads this thread they will know that I have already admitted to the inspired word of God..and have agreed to the gifts were a sign of an apostle! BUt I also pointed out that others also manifested the Holy Spirit, not just the apostles! So quit trying to twist my words! Back up your opinion with scriptures. Show me where they have ceased in Scripture! YOu can't!

Mark 16:18 they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
--You didn't explain it. In fact you denied it. You went so far as to say that the bolded part of the verse was not to be found anywhere in the Bible. So don't say you have explained it. You outright denied its existence in Scripture.

YOur good at twisting what other people say! Show me where in the scriptures it TELLS someone to PICK UP snakes! Search the scriptures out and find out the spiritual side to what He is saying! WHo are the serpents, what does he refer to as poison? When you search that out...then we will discuss it!

I have studied much on it--perhaps more than you ever will. The gift of healing ceased (like tongues have). You cannot show me an example of one person on this earth who has the gift of healing.

My friends daughter suffered with severe headaches all her life now into adulthood. She went where they believed in healing, they laid hands on her and she has recovered..for the first time in her life she can function without medication! My friend is a baptist preacher! He and his whole family believe in healing! THe church is taking a closer look at healing in the Bible! So don't believe everything you were taught! Experience plus doctrine does speak loud!

Does God heal? Yes he does. I have never denied that. But no one today has the GIFT of healing. God heals in answer to prayer. He sometimes heals according to what is written in James 5. But there are no "Biblical" faith healers today. People who claim to be faith healers, like Benny Hinn, are all frauds. If you think I am wrong, I challenge you to refute me.

I don't know Benny Hinn or have I witnessed his ministry first hand! YOu can not prove a doctrine on the false out there! THe scriptures says that we will lay hands on the sick and they will recover! YOu either believe it or not!

1 Cor. says that the gifts of healing is one of the manifestations of the HOly Spirit...I believe it! Nowhere in the Bible says that the Holy Spirit was taken away or quit manifesting in the life of the church. You claim this but do not show me scriptures!

 

[DHK]

Again..your kidding! right? Where is vs. 26 in your theory? ..."WHen you come together, EVERY ONE of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretaion. Let all things be done unto edifying." He says we all have something to give to the body! Just do it in order without the confusion! He was correcting the whole service, not just tongues! You went out on a limb concerning the wemon on this one!

Well let's see. Let me draw some conclusions:
1. You have no Biblical rebuttal, therefore you don't believe the Bible on this passage of Scripture.
2. You quote your experience as greater authority than the Word.
3. You make Scripture contradict Scripture.
4. You turn a rebuke into a command.
5. You show an attitude that you don't want to take the Scripture at face value and don't want to understand it. It is pretty much "Don't talk to me about God and salvation, I have my own religion" attitude."

That is your attitude concerning the verse just referenced--vs. 26
1 Corinthians 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
Note carefully:
1. "How is it brethren?" This is the part you left out. It is an expression of shock and amazement. "How can this be??" The entire verse is a rebuke! Yet, you try to use this verse in your defense. It doesn't work that way.

2. "every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation."
Paul points the obvious out to them. It was utter confusion. He had told them that two, at the most three should speak. But they were all speaking and out of turn. It Satan that is the master of confusion, not God. God is a God of order, not confusion. And this is mass confusion, and didn't edify anyone. Thus Paul says:

3. "Let all things be done unto edifying." But that wasn't happening.
Besides all of that, the verse doesn't even apply to the women.
Only men were permitted to use revelatory gifts.

THe most powerful message in tongues I have ever heard came from a woman in church!

Then, like Mary Baker Eddy, and Ellen G. White, and Helena Blavatsky (Theosophy's leader), were all powerful speakers, but they all got their messages from Satan. They all started cults (Christian Science, SDA, Theosophy). And gullible people like yourself follow them.
Once again, you have put your experience as more important than the Word of God.

Again you are way off base on this one! Wemon are to be in subjection (authority) of their husbands at all times not just church.

And your experience is more important than the Word of God. Who gave you this authority? Do you have more authority than God??

I agreed to that! READ MY POST without seaching all the wrong in them and you will not miss it! But Paul was called to the Gentiles!

If you read my posts why don't you understand them. If Jews and Gentiles are one in Christ, then the church is not Gentile is it? It is what Paul says it is, "a church of God." Why are you calling it a "Gentile church," when it is not?

Again...how much plainer does Paul have to get! "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, MY SPIRIT PRAYETH, but my understanding is unfruitful(does not understand what he is praying unless he prays for interpretation like the above verse says)." "..I will pray with the spirit (just said in above verse tongue is praying with the spirit) AND I will with understanding ALSO." THey even blesses with their spirit and Paul said it is WELL! ...just edify the church with interpretation!

Why do you butcher Scripture and make it say what it doesn't. Paul never said he prays in the Spirit in relation to tongues. You are making him speak lies. That is shameful. Why are you calling Paul a liar??

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1. The statement is a hypothetical. Paul did not say he prayed in an unknown tongue, did he? He never said that. As in 1Cor.13:3
1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
--He never said he gave all his goods to the poor.
--He never said he gave his body to be burned, and we know he didn't. His death was by beheading by the Roman government.
These are all hypotheticals, including 14:14, "If I pray in an unknown tongue." Don't accuse Paul of something he never did!!! Don't make him out to be a liar!

IF I pray in an unknown tongue (like some of the disobedient Corinthians were doing), then their spirits were praying, but their understanding was unfruitful. It was a sharp rebuke. They may have been trying to pray in their carnal spirit, but their was no understanding whatsoever. Therefore whatever they said was totally messed up, wrong, not edifying, and of no benefit to anyone. The word "spirit" is a small "s" and refers to the spirit of self.

1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
--Again you misunderstand Paul. He says nothing of tongues here.
I will pray with the spirit--my spirit, not unselfishly, but so that everyone can understand. He does not pray in another tongue. He prays with understanding, in Greek, the language of the Corinthians, and a language that he knew very well. He wrote in Greek.
I will sing in the spirit. Not in tongues, but in his spirit, his unselfish spirit so that they could all understand. BTW, in many translations the word "spirit" here is translated mind. Paul uses his mind (doesn't allow it to be bypassed) so that he can edify others. He doesn't allow his mind to become carnal, but uses it for the edification of others. There is not one word of tongues in this verse.
--You just want to read into the Scripture those things you want to believe, right?

I will not discuss this issue with you any longer! vs 4 says it edifys himself..Jude tells us to build ourselves up! It is benificial to the body if I pray in tongues and build my spirit up! Yes! they were given to the church...for the church...and the church is still here...and the manifestations of the Holy Spirit is still here!

You deny the Scripture in favor of experience. Your experience dictates the meaning of Scripture. Why do you allow this?

Verse 4 is a rebuke. "He that speaks in an unknown tongue edifies himself...but NOT THE CHURCH!!!
The gift was for the edification of the church, not for selfish purposes.
Jude 20 is not speaking of tongues. It is a non sequitor.
Look at the difference:
"praying in the Holy Ghost,"
It specifically says "Praying in the Holy Spirit." It does not say praying in the spirit or mind. It is quite different. It has nothing to do with speaking in tongues.
The gifts of the Spirit ceased long ago. The fact is that you have no evidence that they are still in existence today. You can give no Biblical proof.

Take it up with Paul then!

I have. It is Paul that you won't believe. I quote Scripture. You ignore it, deny it, and remain in unbelief.

 

[DHK]

I was warned that one of the tactics in someone defending cessationalism would be how you are doing now! If anyone reads this thread they will know that I have already admitted to the inspired word of God..and have agreed to the gifts were a sign of an apostle! BUt I also pointed out that others also manifested the Holy Spirit, not just the apostles! So quit trying to twist my words! Back up your opinion with scriptures. Show me where they have ceased in Scripture! YOu can't!

I have. You just don't believe me.
1. They were the signs of an apostle. 2Cor.12:12; Heb.2:3,4
2. They were given because the NT was not yet complete. (1Cor.13:8-13)
3. They were given as a sign to the unbelieving Jews (1Cor.14:21; Acts 2, 10, 19)
4. They were a fulfillment of prophecy. (Isa.28:11,12; 1Cor.14:21; Acts 2; Joel 2:28ff)
5. They would pass away when the NT was complete (at the end of the first century), and history attests to this, as well as Scripture (1Cor.13:10)

YOur good at twisting what other people say! Show me where in the scriptures it TELLS someone to PICK UP snakes! Search the scriptures out and find out the spiritual side to what He is saying! WHo are the serpents, what does he refer to as poison? When you search that out...then we will discuss it!

You said that nowhere in the Bible does it tell anyone to drink any poisonous thing. Now you are back-tracking instead of apologizing and saying you are wrong. Look at the Scripture again:

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
--There is no allegory here.
Serpents refer to serpents--snakes.
Poison refers to poison--toxins that when ingested can kill you, just like the venom of a snake.
--The Lord here gave specific promises of protection to his apostles at the same time that he gave them the Great Commission, just before he ascended back into heaven. That doesn't mean they are applicable to us all.

My friends daughter suffered with severe headaches all her life now into adulthood. She went where they believed in healing, they laid hands on her and she has recovered..for the first time in her life she can function without medication! My friend is a baptist preacher! He and his whole family believe in healing! THe church is taking a closer look at healing in the Bible! So don't believe everything you were taught! Experience plus doctrine does speak loud!

I don't deny healing. I never said I did. I deny the gift of healing such as is exemplified in Acts 5:16. Read my posts carefully. Study Acts 5:16. Show me anyone on this earth today that possesses the gift that Peter did in Acts 5:16.

I don't know Benny Hinn or have I witnessed his ministry first hand! YOu can not prove a doctrine on the false out there! THe scriptures says that we will lay hands on the sick and they will recover! YOu either believe it or not!

You don't read very well do you?
I said I believe in healing. But I don't believe in faith healers or those who claim they have the gift of healing. The gift of healing has ceased.

1 Cor. says that the gifts of healing is one of the manifestations of the HOly Spirit...I believe it! Nowhere in the Bible says that the Holy Spirit was taken away or quit manifesting in the life of the church. You claim this but do not show me scriptures!

I have shown you plenty of Scripture, but you have not shown me one instance of Biblical tongues or one instance of the gift of healing--not one. Those who practice such today are frauds and often dabble in the occult.

 

[Yeshua1]

Seems like everyone is against Baptist charismatic members and not just their beliefs. I know different Baptist churches hold different beliefs on certain things, but most southern baptist do not believe that the manifestation are gone... just on what they are.

What do most of the baptist here believe about the Holy Spirits manifestations today?

Please try not to belittle me for what I believe but yet defend what you believe. Not just opinions..scriptures please!

I ask that this be done in love and a mutual agreement that in the end of this thread no hard feelings/offense taken. I believe that is what God would want!

I was in the Assemblies of God for 10 years, Elder for 7 of those yeras, trained in their school...

Would say that the bible teaches that ALL christians have received the Holy Spirit at conversion, baptized by him into the Body of Christ...

we are ALL sealed/indwelt by him, but we also can be filled by him daily basis... That part is conditional upon our response to Him...

Also each one of us have a spiritual gift from the same Spirit, but its HIS choosing which gift to which person, all valid and equal to God...

Also would say that the biggest errors in Charasmatic views are there seeing that the Spirit has a secondary aspect/act of grace, they call it the "baptism" in Him, shown by tongues...

Christians not commanded to be baptised in HS, as already done when saved, but to be Filled by Him...

IF they said that a christian can experience a deeper aspect of the same salvation, in that we can chose to abide in Christ and submit to the HS for His empowering daily, that would be much more biblically acceptable!

Also, drop their insistence in sign/wonders/miracle/tongues as evidence of that 'baptising' in the HS!

And none of that extra revelation sometimes claimed for "Modern prophets/Apostles"

 

[awaken]

Well let's see. Let me draw some conclusions:
1. You have no Biblical rebuttal, therefore you don't believe the Bible on this passage of Scripture.

Here we go again..adding words to my post! I believe the Word...just not your interpretation!

2. You quote your experience as greater authority than the Word.

Show me where I said this! My experience is backs up the word! So you will not miss this...I will say it in Caps! I READ THE WORD...I BELIEVED THE WORD...I LIVED/EXPERIENCED THE WORD! Now stop trying to twist everything I say!

3. You make Scripture contradict Scripture.

Show me one! You can't but I have shown you plenty where you have.

4. You turn a rebuke into a command.

Again, accusations without proof!

5. You show an attitude that you don't want to take the Scripture at face value and don't want to understand it. It is pretty much "Don't talk to me about God and salvation, I have my own religion" attitude."

I was just thinking the same about your attitude!

That is your attitude concerning the verse just referenced--vs. 26
1 Corinthians 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
Note carefully:
1. "How is it brethren?" This is the part you left out. It is an expression of shock and amazement. "How can this be??" The entire verse is a rebuke! Yet, you try to use this verse in your defense. It doesn't work that way.

Oh, but it does when you use it in context! I never said Paul was not rebuking the Corinthians! What this verse says is that when they come together they all bring something to the worship!

2. "every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation."
Paul points the obvious out to them. It was utter confusion. He had told them that two, at the most three should speak. But they were all speaking and out of turn. It Satan that is the master of confusion, not God. God is a God of order, not confusion. And this is mass confusion, and didn't edify anyone. Thus Paul says:

3. "Let all things be done unto edifying." But that wasn't happening.
Besides all of that, the verse doesn't even apply to the women.
Only men were permitted to use revelatory gifts.
Then, like Mary Baker Eddy, and Ellen G. White, and Helena Blavatsky (Theosophy's leader), were all powerful speakers, but they all got their messages from Satan. They all started cults (Christian Science, SDA, Theosophy). And gullible people like yourself follow them.
Once again, you have put your experience as more important than the Word of God.
And your experience is more important than the Word of God. Who gave you this authority? Do you have more authority than God??
If you read my posts why don't you understand them. If Jews and Gentiles are one in Christ, then the church is not Gentile is it? It is what Paul says it is, "a church of God." Why are you calling it a "Gentile church," when it is not?
Why do you butcher Scripture and make it say what it doesn't. Paul never said he prays in the Spirit in relation to tongues. You are making him speak lies. That is shameful. Why are you calling Paul a liar??

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1. The statement is a hypothetical. Paul did not say he prayed in an unknown tongue, did he? He never said that. As in 1Cor.13:3
1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
--He never said he gave all his goods to the poor.
--He never said he gave his body to be burned, and we know he didn't. His death was by beheading by the Roman government.
These are all hypotheticals, including 14:14, "If I pray in an unknown tongue." Don't accuse Paul of something he never did!!! Don't make him out to be a liar!

IF I pray in an unknown tongue (like some of the disobedient Corinthians were doing), then their spirits were praying, but their understanding was unfruitful. It was a sharp rebuke. They may have been trying to pray in their carnal spirit, but their was no understanding whatsoever. Therefore whatever they said was totally messed up, wrong, not edifying, and of no benefit to anyone. The word "spirit" is a small "s" and refers to the spirit of self.

1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
--Again you misunderstand Paul. He says nothing of tongues here.
I will pray with the spirit--my spirit, not unselfishly, but so that everyone can understand. He does not pray in another tongue. He prays with understanding, in Greek, the language of the Corinthians, and a language that he knew very well. He wrote in Greek.
I will sing in the spirit. Not in tongues, but in his spirit, his unselfish spirit so that they could all understand. BTW, in many translations the word "spirit" here is translated mind. Paul uses his mind (doesn't allow it to be bypassed) so that he can edify others. He doesn't allow his mind to become carnal, but uses it for the edification of others. There is not one word of tongues in this verse.
--You just want to read into the Scripture those things you want to believe, right?
You deny the Scripture in favor of experience. Your experience dictates the meaning of Scripture. Why do you allow this?

Verse 4 is a rebuke. "He that speaks in an unknown tongue edifies himself...but NOT THE CHURCH!!!
The gift was for the edification of the church, not for selfish purposes.
Jude 20 is not speaking of tongues. It is a non sequitor.
Look at the difference:
"praying in the Holy Ghost,"
It specifically says "Praying in the Holy Spirit." It does not say praying in the spirit or mind. It is quite different. It has nothing to do with speaking in tongues.
The gifts of the Spirit ceased long ago. The fact is that you have no evidence that they are still in existence today. You can give no Biblical proof.
I have. It is Paul that you won't believe. I quote Scripture. You ignore it, deny it, and remain in unbelief.

I am not playing your game of twisted words anymore DHK....Readers can see how you twist my comments and add to it!

Paul was rebuking the Corinthians but as he was rebuking he was NOT FORBIDDING! Just to do it in order so that all can be edified!

 

[awaken]

I was in the Assemblies of God for 10 years, Elder for 7 of those yeras, trained in their school...

Would say that the bible teaches that ALL christians have received the Holy Spirit at conversion, baptized by him into the Body of Christ...

we are ALL sealed/indwelt by him, but we also can be filled by him daily basis... That part is conditional upon our response to Him...

Also each one of us have a spiritual gift from the same Spirit, but its HIS choosing which gift to which person, all valid and equal to God...

Also would say that the biggest errors in Charasmatic views are there seeing that the Spirit has a secondary aspect/act of grace, they call it the "baptism" in Him, shown by tongues...

Christians not commanded to be baptised in HS, as already done when saved, but to be Filled by Him...

IF they said that a christian can experience a deeper aspect of the same salvation, in that we can chose to abide in Christ and submit to the HS for His empowering daily, that would be much more biblically acceptable!

Also, drop their insistence in sign/wonders/miracle/tongues as evidence of that 'baptising' in the HS!

And none of that extra revelation sometimes claimed for "Modern prophets/Apostles"

I know that I am a child of God, been one for over 40 years!
But how could I experience something I was taught did not exist. Growing up Baptist I was taught that the manifestations of the Holy Spirit was no longer available today it was just for the apostles. I accepted that..so I was taught not to believe..I was in unbelief concerning this.

As I searched out scriptures and prayed for His guidiance...I found out I was taught wrong!

My pastor says that he believes we get all the Holy Spirit we are going to get at birth. He does not believe that the gifts have ceased. He also speaks in tongues.

Somnething to consider... Jesus was born of God yet he was also annointed by the Holy Spirit upon Him during His water baptism. So can you explain this?
Jesus did no miracles until after the dove came UPON him.

 

[awaken]

Putting tongues aside...lets discuss the other manifestations of the Holy Spirit?

The word of wisdom..Has that ceased too?
What is the word of wisdom?
Can someone give examples of it in scriptures?

 

[DHK]

Putting tongues aside...lets discuss the other manifestations of the Holy Spirit?

The word of wisdom..Has that ceased too?
What is the word of wisdom?
Can someone give examples of it in scriptures?

There are two views on this.
Some believe that only the "sign gifts" (2Cor.12:12; Heb.2:3,4) have ceased, as well as revelatory gifts. Others remain such as the ones you mentioned.

The other view is this. Since all the gifts were in some way supernatural, then all the gifts have ceased. As you ask, what is the word or gift of "wisdom"? It is wisdom that was supernaturally given to an individual at that time, during the first century, that would help the first century churches function better. The gifts were given specifically for first century churches that did not have the completed Word of God. When the canon was complete and the Apostles were no longer alive, the gifts (all of them) ceased. They were all supernatural in some way. Thus they all ceased.

How is the gift of helps or the gift of administration supernatural? That is a question I cannot answer and perhaps gives the first scenario a better case.

 

[awaken]

There are two views on this.
Some believe that only the "sign gifts" (2Cor.12:12; Heb.2:3,4) have ceased, as well as revelatory gifts. Others remain such as the ones you mentioned.

The other view is this. Since all the gifts were in some way supernatural, then all the gifts have ceased. As you ask, what is the word or gift of "wisdom"? It is wisdom that was supernaturally given to an individual at that time, during the first century, that would help the first century churches function better. The gifts were given specifically for first century churches that did not have the completed Word of God. When the canon was complete and the Apostles were no longer alive, the gifts (all of them) ceased. They were all supernatural in some way. Thus they all ceased.

How is the gift of helps or the gift of administration supernatural? That is a question I cannot answer and perhaps gives the first scenario a better case.

If we do not call the spiritual gifts what the Bible calls them we could get confused. So we will call this "word of wisdom"...

I think we can agree this is not natural wisdom in the general sense. These are supernatural, not natural gifts.

We can also agree that God has all knowledge. He knows everything, but He never reveals to anyone everything He knows. He gives people a word, a part, or a fragment of what He knows. What He wants us to know at a given time.

There is a wisdom that is gained through the knowledge of God's Word, but that is not the supernatual manifestation of the gift of the word of wisdom.

 

[DHK]

If we do not call the spiritual gifts what the Bible calls them we could get confused. So we will call this "word of wisdom"...

I think we can agree this is not natural wisdom in the general sense. These are supernatural, not natural gifts.

We can also agree that God has all knowledge. He knows everything, but He never reveals to anyone everything He knows. He gives people a word, a part, or a fragment of what He knows. What He wants us to know at a given time.

There is a wisdom that is gained through the knowledge of God's Word, but that is not the supernatual manifestation of the gift of the word of wisdom.

The way you define that particular gift, as revelatory, it has ceased. The revelation of God is closed. The canon of Scripture is closed. God is not giving revelation to anyone anymore. You are standing on the brink of heresy here. All revelation ceased at the end of the first century with the book of Revelation (ca. 98 A.D.).

 

[awaken]

The way you define that particular gift, as revelatory, it has ceased. The revelation of God is closed. The canon of Scripture is closed. God is not giving revelation to anyone anymore. You are standing on the brink of heresy here. All revelation ceased at the end of the first century with the book of Revelation (ca. 98 A.D.).

Scripture and verse please!

Even if you use 1 Cor. 13...it says only 3 will cease and that will be when we see Him face to face and we will know as we are known!
The word of wisdom and word of knowledge does not add to or take away from the Word of God!

 

[awaken]

Old Testament examples of "word of wisdom"...
Word of Wisdom to Noah. (Gen. 6:13-18)
Word of Wisdom to Joseph (Through dreams Gen. 37-50)

New Testament examples...
John on the Isle of Patmos (through visions)
Ananias (Acts 9) Word of knowledge and Word of Wisdom working together.
Philip (Acts 8)

 

[DHK]

Scripture and verse please!

Even if you use 1 Cor. 13...it says only 3 will cease and that will be when we see Him face to face and we will know as we are known!
The word of wisdom and word of knowledge does not add to or take away from the Word of God!

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Words of knowledge is a type of revelation. It has ceased. It is done away with. There is no more revelation being given today.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
--In the OT God spoke through his prophets in different ways: dreams, visions, audibly, etc.
But now he has ALREADY spoken unto us by his Son. Everything God wants us to know about Christ is written in the 66 books of the Bible. That is how God has spoken to us--through the written Word of God.

2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
--God spoke in the OT through the prophets, and in the NT through the apostles. Peter makes that clear. Then he commands us to be mindful of their words--the prophets and the apostles (and their associates).

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
--Peter refers to Paul's epistles as Scripture. He says some of them are hard to understand, and the unlearned and unstable wrest as they do also the other scriptures to their own destruction. We find this practice among the Charismatics probably more than any other group.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
--If you, by words of wisdom, words of knowledge, a prophesy here and a prophesy there, etc., add to this book, God will add to you the plagues which are written in this book. It is fitting that this book is placed at the end of the Bible, making these verses applicable not just to Revelation, but to all the Bible.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
--The prophecy (the Word of God) did not come by the will of man--not just any man. But holy men of God spoke (or wrote) as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit moved or directed holy men of God, such as the prophets and Apostles to write the inspired words of God. After that the canon of Scripture was closed.

Tell me Awaken. Are you one of those "holy men of old"?

Are the things you and your contemporaries say "inspired of God"?

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
--Scripture is inspired of God (literally 'God-breathed'). Are the words that you and your contemporaries speak inspired of God. Do they come from the very breathe of God? Are they equal with what "the holy men of old" said?