1 Corinthians 2:14 does not teach total inability

[Calminian]

Im not going to get into a pissing contest with you if that is what your looking for. If you want to discuss it ill be glad to. And yes, i have made my point clear repeatedly.

No one wants that. Just would encourage you to actually engage and post something tangible. Just look at your last few posts. Totally void of an actual argument. You get in these contests for a reason.

I would love for you to interact with some of the responses you've been getting. Or your free to keep doing what you're doing.

 

[Rippon2]

Well the Apostle Stephen disagrees with you.

Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!​

The drawing of John 6:44 always unites the one drawn by the Father to Jesus. Every single one thus drawn is raised up at the last day.

 

[Calminian]

The drawing of John 6:44 always unites the one drawn by the Father to Jesus. Every single one thus drawn is raised up at the last day.

Sounds like you're touting some kind of universalism.

 

[Rippon2]

Sounds like you're touting some kind of universalism.

You didn't insert a face. Everyone thus drawn does not = the entire human race, but the elect alone.

 

[Revmitchell]

No one wants that. Just would encourage you to actually engage and post something tangible. Just look at your last few posts. Totally void of an actual argument. You get in these contests for a reason.

I would love for you to interact with some of the responses you've been getting. Or your free to keep doing what you're doing.

Um....I responded to what you gave me. Have you looked at your last few posts

 

[Calminian]

Um....I responded to what you gave me. Have you looked at your last few posts

Yep. Offered verses and arguments. Nothing but spit in return. Trying to have a dialog with you.

 

[37818]

1Co 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.
1Co 1:11 For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers.

And we are not agreeing. I am persuade we believe the same Scriptures. Can you not explicitly identify the point or points of interpretation reading the same Scriptures?
1 Corinthians 1:18, ". . . the cross is to them that perish foolishness; . . ." 1 Corinthians 2:14, ". . . the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: . . ."

 

[Revmitchell]

And we are not agreeing. I am persuade we believe the same Scriptures. Can you not explicitly identify the point or points of interpretation reading the same Scriptures?
1 Corinthians 1:18, ". . . the cross is to them that perish foolishness; . . ." 1 Corinthians 2:14, ". . . the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: . . ."

The context of those two verses is in the correction Paul is making to believers in corinnth

 

[37818]

You didn't insert a face. Everyone thus drawn does not = the entire human race, but the elect alone.

You miss the irony. John 11:48-53, ". . . If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation. . . . Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death." John 12:32-33, ". . . And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die."

 

[37818]

The context of those two verses is in the correction Paul is making to believers in corinnth

That is your interpretation, but how from the contexts of 1 Corinthians 1:10 - 1 Corinthians 2:16 do you come to it?

 

[37818]

The context of those two verses is in the correction Paul is making to believers in corinnth

So you have argued. What I see, and has not been refuted, the perishing, the natural man regard God's truths as foolisness.

 

[Rippon2]

You miss the irony. John 11:48-53, ". . . If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation. . . . Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death." John 12:32-33, ". . . And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die."

Yes, when Christ said "When I am lifted up from the earth" spoke of the sort of death he would experience. And yes, Caiaphas, foretold that it wouldn't be for those among the Jewish nation, but also for the scattered children of God around the world. All of the aforementioned are the elect. I had said that that Christ died for people from among all tribes, languages, people and nations. (Acts 20:28, Rev. 5:9 etc.

 

[Rippon2]

The context of those two verses is in the correction Paul is making to believers in corinnth

How in the name of all that's sane can you regard people perishing as believers in 1 Cor.1:18? The same type of individual is found in 1 Cor. 2:14 --an unbeliever --the Holy Spirit of God is not within that person --a perishing individual. In those two passages there is no way that an honest look will reveal anything but the fact that those people are unsaved.

 

[Calminian]

Yes, when Christ said "When I am lifted up from the earth" spoke of the sort of death he would experience. And yes, Caiaphas, foretold that it wouldn't be for those among the Jewish nation, but also for the scattered children of God around the world. All of the aforementioned are the elect. I had said that that Christ died for people from among all tribes, languages, people and nations. (Acts 20:28, Rev. 5:9 etc.

Would have been so easy for Jesus to say this or for John to qualify this. Apart from a qualifier, all means all.

John said, "The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world." Not just to some, but to "everyone." Jesus later said,

John 12:35 .....“You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where they are going. 36 Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.”.....​

Very clear that while some receive light (knowledge, understanding, enlightenment) not all respond in faith.

 

[Revmitchell]

So you have argued. What I see, and has not been refuted, the perishing, the natural man regard God's truths as foolisness.

Ok there is no verse that puts the perishing and the natural man together. The lost man is always natural but the natural is not always perishing.

 

[Revmitchell]

No one wants that. Just would encourage you to actually engage and post something tangible. Just look at your last few posts. Totally void of an actual argument. You get in these contests for a reason.

I would love for you to interact with some of the responses you've been getting. Or your free to keep doing what you're doing.

Did you even read the op? You jump in a thread at the end and then act like you know what is going on. Read the op and then get back to me.

 

[Calminian]

Ok there is no verse that puts the perishing and the natural man together. The lost man is always natural but the natural is not always perishing.

Just not true. Jude uses this word and is absolutely speaking of unbelievers—those not having the Spirit.

Translated "sensual persons" in the NKJV.

Jude 19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.​

The NIV translates using 4 words, "follow mere natural instincts."

Jude 19 These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.​

NASB translates it "worldly-minded."

Jude 19 These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.​

If you're going to argue these are believers, then you must take the absurd position that believers not only consider the things of God foolish, but are also themselves "devoid of the Spirit."

 

[Calminian]

Did you even read the op? You jump in a thread at the end and then act like you know what is going on. Read the op and then get back to me.

Indeed I did.

We need to remember here that the context is not the redeemed and the lost but the wisdom the lost uses and the wisdom the children of God use or should be using. In the Corinthian church the believers were not using that which is Spiritual or godly wisdom. Paul is reminding them to keep focused so as to not distort the gospel and the glory of God. Now pay attention here because this is where the rubber meets the road.

............

In verse 14 the “natural person” is not a lost unregenerate person but anyone who has not chosen to use Spiritual wisdom to include believers. The Corinthian members who were divided were not using Spiritual wisdom. They were not considered by Paul to be mature. Their division was evidence of it. Paul is leading them to stop the worldly thinking, put on the mind of Christ (vs. 2:16) and leave the division.

Here's another challenge to your premise. I see the argument made all the time. Since Paul is speaking to the Church everything he says is directed to believers. Not true.

The problem with this argument is that the Church is comprised of both wheats and tares. The Church is a body of believers and professing believers. Jesus commanded his disciples not clear out all the tares for fear of expelling true believes. He said he would separate them in the last day.

Warnings about unbelief are found in most epistles and it make perfect sense. Tares are in every Church.

Heb. 3:12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.​

 

[Rippon2]

John said, "The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world." Not just to some, but to "everyone."

Are you under the impression that gives saving light to all? If He meant that then all would be saved. Christ is the Light of the world. He gives the light of creation and conscience to all people (see Ro. 1:18-20 and 2:14,15) He gives the light of the Bible and the light that comes by the preaching of the Gospel. However, He gives the saving light of grace only to His elect.

 

[Revmitchell]

Indeed I did.



Here's another challenge to your premise. I see the argument made all the time. Since Paul is speaking to the Church everything he says is directed to believers. Not true.

The problem with this argument is that the Church is comprised of both wheats and tares. The Church is a body of believers and professing believers. Jesus commanded his disciples not clear out all the tares for fear of expelling true believes. He said he would separate them in the last day.

Warnings about unbelief are found in most epistles and it make perfect sense. Tares are in every Church.

Heb. 3:12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.​

Paul did not refer to anyone as a tare. Further, the discussion by Paul over wisdom is enough to show your personal interpretation is incorrect. However, in all of this discussion everyone seems to be ignoring the problem Paul was addressing which is the context of all of this.