1 John 2:1-2

[37818]

...
The Truth As To The Nature Of The Law.


All of the false views of the atonement to which we have given special treatment represent the law of God as a purely arbitrary appointment that may be relaxed partially or wholly at will instead of a revelation of the nature of God with no more possibility of change in its demands than there is of change in the nature of God. It demands an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. It demands that every transgression and disobedience shall receive a just recompense of reward. Heb. 2:2. The view of the atonement that is correct must recognize this.


C. The Truth As To The Guilt Of Sin.


These false views that we are considering deny that sin involves us in objective guilt that requires expiation. The following Scriptures teach that it does: John 3:36; Rom. 1:18; 2:5,6, 3:19; 6:23; Gal. 3:10; Eph. 5:5,6; Col. 3:5,6; Rev. 20:13.


D. The Truth as to the Substitutionary Nature of the Atonement.


The following passages show that the suffering of Christ was a substitute for the suffering that believers would have undergone in Hell:


"Surely he hath borne our griefs and carried our sorrows ... was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and Jehovah hath laid on him the iniquity of us all" (Isa. 53:4-6). ". . . being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forebearance of God; for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at the present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus" (Rom. 3:24,25). Propitiation is a synonym of expiation, which means "enduring the full penalty of a wrong or crime." Propitiation appeases the lawgiver by satisfying the law in the rendering of "a full legal equivalent for the wrong done."


Rom. 2:5,6; 11 Cor. 5:10; Eph. 5:5,6;
11 Pet. 2:9-13; A. S. V.; Rev. 20:13.

I would assume you know precisely what you mean. But to me what you have stated doesn't deal with it in a way to resolve the disagreements.

 

[Van]

I take it all the translations below are rejected by Vanology.

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
- 1 John 2:2

and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
- 1 John 2:2

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
- 1 John 2:2

He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world.
- 1 John 2:2

and he -- he is a propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world,
- 1 John 2:2

Note the ignorance of the meaning of propitiation. It means "means of reconciliation" and does not mean "propitiated."
Pay not attention to the name calling nonsense by the advocates of Falseology.

 

[Van]

Propitiation provides the means of salvation. It does not mean in its biblical usage the act of being propitiated.

1John 2:2 (NASB)
and He Himself is the [fn] propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Footnote: I.e., means of reconciliation with God by atoning for sins; or sin-offering​

If we a present a more literal translation, it would read:

and He is the means of reconciliation concerning the sins of us, yet not only concerning ours but also concerning the whole of humanity.​

 

[Silverhair]

context


*"For ye see your calling, brethren,
how that not many wise men after the flesh,
not many mighty, not many noble, are called:"
I Corinthians 1:26.

"Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto,
but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."
Matthew 12:28

Rom_3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom_6:10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

2Co_5:14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died;
2Co_5:15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

1Ti_2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men,
1Ti_2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

So you see Alan the many are included in the ALL. Christ came as a ransom for all and many of those will trust in Him for salvation but not all.

 

[Alan Gross]

I would assume you know precisely what you mean. But to me what you have stated doesn't deal with it in a way to resolve the disagreements.

To resolve the disagreements, I suggested that those who hold to a General Atonement, of 'all men without exception', may want to read what is expressed, by "all", as, "all men without distinction.

Reasons would be that Double Jeordy is contrary to The Nature of God, The Justice of God and God's Love.

No concern for God's Nature, Justice, or "Love" that within the bounds of Revealed Truths.

The Truth As To God's Nature.

And also that they deny the holiness and justice of God

these views logically deny the holiness and justice of God

They picture God as being love only.

2 eyes for an eye is not of God.

Retributive wrath against sin is no element of divine nature.

Also opposing:

The Truth As To The Nature Of The Law.

The Truth As To The Guilt Of Sin.

The Truth as to the Substitutionary Nature of the Atonement.

All is real, here:

All we like sheep have gone astray

 

[AustinC]

To resolve the disagreements, I suggested that those who hold to a General Atonement, of 'all men without exception', may want to read what is expressed, by "all", as, "all men without distinction.

Reasons would be that Double Jeordy is contrary to The Nature of God, The Justice of God and God's Love.





And also that they deny the holiness and justice of God






2 eyes for an eye is not of God.



Also opposing:







All is real, here:

Unfortunately, Alan, our Universal Atonement friends have no care regarding the contradictions they embrace.

 

[Silverhair]

To resolve the disagreements, I suggested that those who hold to a General Atonement, of 'all men without exception', may want to read what is expressed, by "all", as, "all men without distinction.

Reasons would be that Double Jeordy is contrary to The Nature of God, The Justice of God and God's Love.

And also that they deny the holiness and justice of God

2 eyes for an eye is not of God.

Also opposing:

All is real, here:

What does the bible tell us about the use of the word "ALL"

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
Now did Christ have all sin laid on Him or only some sin? Which type of ALL are these?

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, How about this one?

2Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.
Now this may take a bit more but I am sure you have a answer.

I agree that Double Jeopardy is contrary to the nature, justice and love of God and that's why there is none.

The atonement of Christ is unlimited in its scope, but its full application is conditioned on union with Christ through faith. After all, it is said of the elect that they “were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind” (Ephesians 2:3); if the atonement was unconditionally applied in full, how could any elect person be under God’s wrath at any point after Christ’s death?

Now we know that Christ died for all (2Co 5:15) and we see here that He was the ransom for all 1Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

So Alan are these two types of all in your theology?

Now we come to the verses that tell the tale. Here we see exception and distinction shown but not as you may think.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all (no exception) and on all (distinction) who believe. For there is no difference;
Rom 3:23 for all (no exception) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

We find the same thing shown in 1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Christ was the ransom for our sins (those that believe) but the ransom was sufficient to cover all (without exception) the sins of mankind.

 

[Silverhair]

Unfortunately, Alan, our Universal Atonement friends have no care regarding the contradictions they embrace.

Then perhaps you should just read the bible and you will find universal atonement right there in front of you.

 

[37818]

To resolve the disagreements, I suggested that those who hold to a General Atonement, of 'all men without exception', may want to read what is expressed, by "all", as, "all men without distinction.

As you suppose. We disagree.

 

[Alan Gross]

Unfortunately, Alan, our Universal Atonement friends have no care regarding the contradictions they embrace.

Do you mean for them to be in keeping with their Formula
of, "Dismiss God and His Attributes"
and "Exalt the carnal, finite human sinner, as "MAGNIFICENT"?

That Formula is quite EVIL
and has been in operation in most posts from certain ones.

And speaking of EVIL, the church
is something Jesus "Purchased with His Own Blood";
Limited and Specific.

I don't see where Jesus Purchased
the Eternal Suffering of lost sinners that are in Hell, with His Own Blood.

Like He Did, for the Elect.

That is an argument from silence that can't be 'substantiated',
by truly lame misinterpretation, of an adjective.

Generally, the word “all” expresses the entire quantity or extent of something.

Not in Acts 22:15

I Corinthians 6:12

Ephesians 3:9

I Timothy 5:2

nor, dozens of others.

So, it doesn't HAVE TO mean one thing,
unless that is where they have all their marbles.

Except in Spiritually Adulterous, bastardized, untenable, Un-Scriptural,
and Blasphemous Tom-Foolery, maybe.

 

[Alan Gross]

Then perhaps you should just read the bible and you will find universal atonement right there in front of you.

Isn't that only if you are one of the special kind of people that

"Loves the LORD your God
with all your heart,
with all your soul,
with all your mind,
and with all your strength'

then, when you read the Bible, it means what you think.

Special, for sure.

 

[Silverhair]

Isn't that only if you are one of the special kind of people that

"Loves the LORD your God
with all your heart,
with all your soul,
with all your mind,
and with all your strength'

then, when you read the Bible, it means what you think.

Special, for sure.

You will not:
Loves the LORD your God
with all your heart,
with all your soul,
with all your mind,
and with all your strength

until you have turned to the Lord in faith after you hear and believe the gospel message which is the power of God for salvation.

 

[AustinC]

You will not:
Loves the LORD your God
with all your heart,
with all your soul,
with all your mind,
and with all your strength

until you have turned to the Lord in faith after you hear and believe the gospel message which is the power of God for salvation.

You've just damned all humanity to hell, including yourself, if you are correct.

However, what you fail to grasp is that those words are spoken to the chosen, elect, people of God, not to the whole world.

God chose Israel and then commanded them. He didn't make that command to Socrates and the pagan world.

 

[Silverhair]

You've just damned all humanity to hell, including yourself, if you are correct.

However, what you fail to grasp is that those words are spoken to the chosen, elect, people of God, not to the whole world.

God chose Israel and then commanded them. He didn't make that command to Socrates and the pagan world.

That's nice Austin but for a person to actually do those things they would have to be saved. Those words were spoken to Israel but did they keep them? NO. I am amazed that you work so hard to disagree with scripture.
Do you think the bible is a book to be trifled with? You do not seem to have much respect for the word of God. You treat it as a book of one liners. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[AustinC]

That's nice Austin but for a person to actually do those things they would have to be saved. Those words were spoken to Israel but did they keep them? NO. I am amazed that you work so hard to disagree with scripture.
Do you think the bible is a book to be trifled with? You do not seem to have much respect for the word of God. You treat it as a book of one liners. You should be ashamed of yourself.

God tells us why they couldn't keep them and why you couldn't keep them today.
I treat the Bible as a whole. You don't seem to grasp the whole.

 

[MrW]

No one has ever loved God with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength, except for the Lord Jesus Christ.

As long as we live in this flesh we still have some amount of imperfection, distraction, and a lack of single-minded purpose at every moment of life.

We have justification and sanctification, but glorification is after death or translation.

 

[Silverhair]

God tells us why they couldn't keep them and why you couldn't keep them today.
I treat the Bible as a whole. You don't seem to grasp the whole.

Like I said did Israel keep them, NO so why would we be any different. But we strive toward them. You have such a negative attitude, were you like this before or after you became a calvinist?

 

[AustinC]

Like I said did Israel keep them, NO so why would we be any different. But we strive toward them. You have such a negative attitude, were you like this before or after you became a calvinist?

The Christian certainly strives toward them since the Christian is the chosen people of God. But, those who are in rebellion to God will never care about such a command from their enemy.

Before I was Reformed, I rode the rollercoaster from viewing myself with complete despair to extreme pride. The Christian walk was all about what I had done for God lately. My failures and successes were all about me. That, of course, is the nature of free will theology. God is expecting me to do it all and I can either work hard and think I am doing amazing work or fail miserably and think that God must hate me for my terrible testimony. In either case, Satan has you where he wants you...consumed with yourself and imagining that what you do holds heaven and hell in the balance.

Praise God he opened up the whole of scripture to me and showed me the wickedness of free will theology, which is self-centered idolatry.

 

[37818]

Satan has you where he wants you.

What if any one or many of the Calvinist views were where Satan wants Christians?

 

[Silverhair]

The Christian certainly strives toward them since the Christian is the chosen people of God. But, those who are in rebellion to God will never care about such a command from their enemy.

Before I was Reformed, I rode the rollercoaster from viewing myself with complete despair to extreme pride. The Christian walk was all about what I had done for God lately. My failures and successes were all about me. That, of course, is the nature of free will theology. God is expecting me to do it all and I can either work hard and think I am doing amazing work or fail miserably and think that God must hate me for my terrible testimony. In either case, Satan has you where he wants you...consumed with yourself and imagining that what you do holds heaven and hell in the balance.

Praise God he opened up the whole of scripture to me and showed me the wickedness of free will theology, which is self-centered idolatry.

If you think that free will theology means that it all depends upon you then you did not then nor now understand what it is. My salvation is from God and my feelings do not impact that salvation.

From what I have seen of calvinism that would be the theology that leads to you viewing yourself with complete despair to extreme pride. Either pride that you were chosen while others were not or despair when you realize you could actually be mistaken about your salvation, your not one of the chosen you just think you are.