1 John 2:1-2

[AustinC]

If you think that free will theology means that it all depends upon you then you did not then nor now understand what it is. My salvation is from God and my feelings do not impact that salvation.

From what I have seen of calvinism that would be the theology that leads to you viewing yourself with complete despair to extreme pride. Either pride that you were chosen while others were not or despair when you realize you could actually be mistaken about your salvation, your not one of the chosen you just think you are.

You have never seen Calvinism, Sliverhair. You have only ever seen your own caricature. Your humanism drives you that way.
What you have stated about calvinism is a figment of your imagination.

 

[AustinC]

What if any one or many of the Calvinist views were where Satan wants Christians?

What if we were Martians not humans? What if we breathed sulfer not oxygen? What if solids were water and water solids? What if...

These could only be true by ordination of the Creator, God.

 

[37818]

What if we were Martians not humans? What if we breathed sulfer not oxygen? What if solids were water and water solids? What if...

These could only be true by ordination of the Creator, God.

As in . . .

Satan has you where he wants you.

Or not.

 

[AustinC]

As in . . .

Or not.

Both
Satan has you where he wants you and this can only be true if God has ordained that Satan have you where he wants you.

For example: At conception all humans are bound by the curse, in sin. Satan has you exactly where he wants you.
But God, even when were dead in sin,made you alive with Christ.
God ordained that you would no longer be where Satan wants you, but instead you would be somewhere Satan does not want you, which is in the New Covenant, graciously made an adopted child of the King.

Do you see how God's Sovereignty over all things works? Satan can only do what God allows him to do and no more. Even Satan does not have true free will.

 

[37818]

Satan has you where he wants you . . .

Wow. Now you are a prophet.

 

[Silverhair]

You have never seen Calvinism, Sliverhair. You have only ever seen your own caricature. Your humanism drives you that way.
What you have stated about calvinism is a figment of your imagination.

So your DoG and WCF & LBCF are all figments of my imagination? I just point out the errors that you make in your comments. But then the common comment from any calvinist is that even those that were calvinists and latter repudiated that view are told they never really understood calvinism anyway.

One does not need to have been a calvinist to see the errors in that theology.

 

[Silverhair]

Both
Satan has you where he wants you and this can only be true if God has ordained that Satan have you where he wants you.

For example: At conception all humans are bound by the curse, in sin. Satan has you exactly where he wants you.
But God, even when were dead in sin,made you alive with Christ.
God ordained that you would no longer be where Satan wants you, but instead you would be somewhere Satan does not want you, which is in the New Covenant, graciously made an adopted child of the King.

Do you see how God's Sovereignty over all things works? Satan can only do what God allows him to do and no more. Even Satan does not have true free will.

So since your version of God in His sovereignty has bound all by the curse He is the one that makes sure most people end up lost even though in the bible He says He desires all to come to faith in His son. So either the bible is wrong or your view is wrong, I'll let you decide.

 

[AustinC]

So since your version of God in His sovereignty has bound all by the curse He is the one that makes sure most people end up lost even though in the bible He says He desires all to come to faith in His son. So either the bible is wrong or your view is wrong, I'll let you decide.

That is certainly your conclusion as you desperately demand that you be your own ruler. You will answer to God for your humanism.

 

[Silverhair]

That is certainly your conclusion as you desperately demand that you be your own ruler. You will answer to God for your humanism.

That is not my conclusion that is biblical. Are these verses not in your bible? Or do you just ignore them?
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Your fighting against what the bible states in clear language. Are you so stuck in your calvinism that you will call the Holy Spirit a liar, that is dangerous ground to stand on.

 

[AustinC]

That is not my conclusion that is biblical. Are these verses not in your bible? Or do you just ignore them?
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Your fighting against what the bible states in clear language. Are you so stuck in your calvinism that you will call the Holy Spirit a liar, that is dangerous ground to stand on.

Are you a universalist? Tell me how you interpret those verses.
Does God fail to achieve all that He desires?

 

[Silverhair]

Are you a universalist? Tell me how you interpret those verses.
Does God fail to achieve all that He desires?

Do you not trust what the Holy Spirit said in clear English? Do all come to faith, no, does that alter the desire of God that all should, no. How do you interpret these verses Austin? You have the habit of asking others to do that but you always skirt doing it yourself.

So step up to the plate and take your turn, interpret this verse for us Austin. And none of your running to other verses that you think support you, just tell us what these verses say.

 

[AustinC]

Do you not trust what the Holy Spirit said in clear English? Do all come to faith, no, does that alter the desire of God that all should, no. How do you interpret these verses Austin? You have the habit of asking others to do that but you always skirt doing it yourself.

So step up to the plate and take your turn, interpret this verse for us Austin. And none of your running to other verses that you think support you, just tell us what these verses say.

What do these verses mean, in clear English?
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Are you a universalist? Tell me how you interpret those verses.
Does God fail to achieve all that He desires?

 

[Silverhair]

What do these verses mean, in clear English?
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Are you a universalist? Tell me how you interpret those verses.
Does God fail to achieve all that He desires?

So you have no answer it is just your usual huff and puff. You have no credibility as you will not even try to defend you position.

You say I do not understand
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

But when I challenge you to tell me what I got wrong about them you duck for cover. Your good at accusing others of many things but you can not backup your comments. Your shallow Austin.

Actually from what Thayer says it would be you that is the universalist according to your idea of Gods' sovereignty

1. to will, have in mind, intend
a. to be resolved or determined, to purpose
b. to desire, to wish

 

[AustinC]

So you have no answer it is just your usual huff and puff. You have no credibility as you will not even try to defend you position.

You say I do not understand
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

But when I challenge you to tell me what I got wrong about them you duck for cover. Your good at accusing others of many things but you can not backup your comments. Your shallow Austin.

Actually from what Thayer says it would be you that is the universalist according to your idea of Gods' sovereignty

1. to will, have in mind, intend
a. to be resolved or determined, to purpose
b. to desire, to wish

I notice you refuse to answer.
What do these verses mean, in clear English?
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Are you a universalist? Tell me how you interpret those verses.
Does God fail to achieve all that He desires?

 

[Van]

Propitiation provides the means of salvation. It does not mean in its biblical usage the act of being propitiated.

1John 2:2 (NASB)
and He Himself is the [fn] propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Footnote: I.e., means of reconciliation with God by atoning for sins; or sin-offering​

If we a present a more literal translation, it would read:

and He is the means of reconciliation concerning the sins of us, yet not only concerning ours but also concerning the whole of humanity.​

 

[Silverhair]

I notice you refuse to answer.
What do these verses mean, in clear English?
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Are you a universalist? Tell me how you interpret those verses.
Does God fail to achieve all that He desires?

Austin I have come to realize that your reading skills are really limited. What do these words mean "Do all come to faith, no, does that alter the desire of God that all should, no."

You will do anything to not answer a question that points out the error of of your philosophy. Your question here Austin "Does God fail to achieve all that He desires?" Under your calvinist version of God if God desires all to be saved since your sovereign God has to get all that He desires that makes you a universalist.

In the Bible, God desires that all come to salvation but man has a God given free will so those that trust in Him will be saved those that do not will be lost.

 

[AustinC]

Austin I have come to realize that your reading skills are really limited. What do these words mean "Do all come to faith, no, does that alter the desire of God that all should, no."

You will do anything to not answer a question that points out the error of of your philosophy. Your question here Austin "Does God fail to achieve all that He desires?" Under your calvinist version of God if God desires all to be saved since your sovereign God has to get all that He desires that makes you a universalist.

In the Bible, God desires that all come to salvation but man has a God given free will so those that trust in Him will be saved those that do not will be lost.

I answer you this. God never fails to accomplish all He desires.
Now, answer my question if you dare. You do not tell us what the word "all" means.

I notice you refuse to answer.
What do these verses mean, in clear English?
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Are you a universalist? Tell me how you interpret those verses.
Does God fail to achieve all that He desires?

 

[AustinC]

In the Bible, God desires that all come to salvation but man has a God given free will so those that trust in Him will be saved those that do not will be lost.

Here you tell us that God fails.
You say God desires all (universalism) come to salvation.
Then you add a huge "BUT" and you declare man more powerful than God. You declare man to be the great determiner of all human destiny. God is at best an observer who desperately desires yet cannot do anything to sway the will of almighty man. At the very core of your philosophy lies pure humanism. It does not surprise me then that when Paul uses the word "But", you ignore it and consider it empty.

*Ephesians 2:4-5*
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

Sliverhair, I find your doctrine to be a cheapening of God's grace and a doctrine empty of the power of God.

 

[Silverhair]

I answer you this. God never fails to accomplish all He desires.
Now, answer my question if you dare. You do not tell us what the word "all" means.

I notice you refuse to answer.
What do these verses mean, in clear English?
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Are you a universalist? Tell me how you interpret those verses.
Does God fail to achieve all that He desires?

Here are your words Austin "God never fails to accomplish all He desires."

And as for "all"

all
adjective
the whole of (used in referring to quantity, extent, or duration): all the cake; all the way; all year.
the whole number of (used in referring to individuals or particulars, taken collectively): all students.

pronoun
the whole quantity or amount: He ate all of the peanuts. All are gone.
the whole number; every one: all of us.

noun
one's whole interest, energy, or property: to give one's all;to lose one's all.
Often All . the entire universe.

What's not there is your "elect". So Austin since the verse says ALL men are what God desires to be saved and since you just stated that your version of a sovereign [determinist] God always gets what He wants you have just jumped into the universalist camp.

 

[AustinC]

Here are your words Austin "God never fails to accomplish all He desires."

And as for "all"

all
adjective
the whole of (used in referring to quantity, extent, or duration): all the cake; all the way; all year.
the whole number of (used in referring to individuals or particulars, taken collectively): all students.

pronoun
the whole quantity or amount: He ate all of the peanuts. All are gone.
the whole number; every one: all of us.

noun
one's whole interest, energy, or property: to give one's all;to lose one's all.
Often All . the entire universe.

What's not there is your "elect". So Austin since the verse says ALL men are what God desires to be saved and since you just stated that your version of a sovereign [determinist] God always gets what He wants you have just jumped into the universalist camp.

So your all in 1 Timothy 2:3-4 is a universal all. Is that correct?
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

And you state "God never fails to accomplish all He desires."

Therefore, one would conclude, by your definition, that all humans will be saved.

Notice that there is no "but" in those verses in 1 Timothy 2:3-4. Yet, in your interpretation you added "but" to your claim and deny that all are saved.

For me, it's easy. Throughout all of Paul's writings he always lets his readers know that God is no respecter of persons or nation. God does not save only Jews, but He saves from all nations, tribes, and tongues. God desires that all will be saved and God ensures that people from all nations, tribes, and tongues will be saved. The only "but" we find is "But God." Yet, you praise man as the determiner of human destiny. You continually tear God down and then tell me I am wrong when I oppose your faulty teaching.

Now, do you still claim universalism or do you claim God is weak and can't accomplish what he desires or do you admit you are wrong and God accomplishes all He desires and determines who is saved. Sliverhair, you're not as important as you want to be.