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1 Peter 2:24
- Thread starter atpollard
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False teachers change the subject and make their opponent the object of disparagement. Behold the above post.
Here is the deal: False teachers claim when Christ died on the cross, immediately every individual chosen before creation was healed (saved).
Only two problems:
1) 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes individual election before creation, because if true then we would have always been a people.
2) If everyone to be saved has already been saved, we would not have the ministry of reconciliation.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Amen.
I also see that He gives ( present tense ) eternal life to as many as the Father has given ( past tense ) to Him:
" as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him." ( John 17:2 )
Also, I see "should" here as being the past tense form of "shall"...
An expression in English of certainty.
Good grief, is no end to disinformation. Everyone who believes (present tense) means if a person today believes (present tense) they have eternal life. To believe into Christ is to be placed into Christ.
On and on folks, the false teachers deny scripture after scripture. God has given, past tense, all He has placed in Christ, but that does not suggest God does not still place, present tense of John 3:16, people in Christ.Amen.
I also see that He gives ( present tense ) eternal life to as many as the Father has given ( past tense ) to Him:
" as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him." ( John 17:2 )
Also, I see "should" here as being the past tense form of "shall"...
An expression in English of certainty.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Van,False teachers change the subject and make their opponent the object of disparagement. Behold the above post.
I've not personally attacked or even tried to disparage you in any way.
In fact, I ask the readers of this thread to bear witness and let me know, either by private message or by other means, if I have done so... and I will of course repent and ask forgiveness.
Will you do the same, my friend?
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37818
Well-Known Member
Just a side note:
1 Peter 2:24 should have been translated, stripes in the singular, not in the plural:
". . . Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripe ye were healed. . . ."
Because Jesus' back was layed bare of skin before He was on the cross to shed His blood for our sins.
Translators know Peter referenced Isaiah 53:5, ". . . and with his stripes we are healed." So it seems they think they are correcting the word God gave Peter to write because of what God gave Isaiah to write. I think they aer wrong for the reason I gave. By the way the Greek text is in the singular.
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My behavior is non germane. And your behavior is non-germane. Stop changing the subject from the false doctrines of Calvinism. Those doctrines are ludicrous.
Here is the deal: False teachers claim when Christ died on the cross, immediately every individual chosen before creation was healed (saved).
Only two problems:
1) 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes individual election before creation, because if true then we would have always been a people.
2) If everyone to be saved has already been saved, we would not have the ministry of reconciliation.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Van,
As believers who are indebted to Christ for the very salvation that they possess as a gift, our behavior is every bit as important as He tells us it should be.
If you like, we can start a thread about where to find these passages, as well as how they apply to all those who profess Christ as Saviour and Lord.
Plainly stated, Biblical correction should never be sneered at, nor dismissed as being "non-germane".
The reality of it is this:
No matter our opinions on a doctrine or our beliefs about the Bible, we can indeed discuss such things without resorting to attacking each other, personally.
I have always done my best, despite occasional slips of conduct, to treat everyone that I come into contact with on these forums, with respect...
Even though I may strongly disagree with them over some things.
I hope you that you are willing to do the same.
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Stop editing my posts to avoid addressing the thread topic.
My behavior is non germane. And your behavior is non-germane. Stop changing the subject from the false doctrines of Calvinism. Those doctrines are ludicrous.
Here is the deal: False teachers claim when Christ died on the cross, immediately every individual chosen before creation was healed (saved).
Only two problems:
1) 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes individual election before creation, because if true then we would have always been a people.
2) If everyone to be saved has already been saved, we would not have the ministry of reconciliation.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Van,
It seems my admonishments, as always, go over your head without any serious consideration.
Granted, this is an internet forum and this type of interaction has its limitations, so I do not know for sure if we're having a "disconnect" ...
Now it seems you're accusing me of purposefully editing your posts with the express intent to avoid addressing the thread topic...
Which I already have in post # 9.
But then it occurred to me that you were accusing not only myself, but anyone who disagreed with you, of not only being wrong ( which is your right to do ) you were accusing them and their beliefs as being bogus and worthy of ridicule.
That said,
If you're unable or unwilling to address your behavior, I'll just have to consign such matters to the Lord.
From here on out, I'll pray that He show you that it is possible to disagree with others without insulting them.
It's really all that I can do.
I'm also reminded that I have, in the past, been a man of bad behavior and the last thing that I wish to do is to be one in the future...
and I figure that if the Lord can get a hold of someone like me over it, He can and will get a hold of any of His children over such matters.
This is my last reply to you in this thread.
I wish you well, sir, and I pray that the Lord bless you in many ways.
Hopefully this is your last effort to avoid the topic!
Here is the deal: False teachers claim when Christ died on the cross, immediately every individual chosen before creation was healed (saved).
Only two problems:
1) 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes individual election before creation, because if true then we would have always been a people.
2) If everyone to be saved has already been saved, we would not have the ministry of reconciliation.
1 Peter is written to Christians, whether they were primarily Jews or Gentiles is in dispute, but the audience included both, thus the claim the audience was exclusively Gentiles is bogus. 1 Peter 2:2 refers to the audience as having been saved, (so you may grow in respect to salvation). The audience has been called out of darkness, applicable to both believing Jews and believing Gentiles. To deny the audience included Jews, with all the OT imagery is ludicrous.
Bottom line, 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes that the election of Epheisans 1:4 was individual, because if so then we would have always been "a people" but scripture says once we were not a people. It is a lock.
1Peter 2:24
and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
Here the bogus claim is made that "you" in the phrase "you were healed" refers to everyone Christ will ever save, all those supposedly individually chosen before creation. Thus when Christ died 2000 years ago, according to this bogus claim, even those not conceived, whose spirits have yet to be formed, were somehow saved. The alternate and biblical view, is individuals are saved when God credits their faith as righteousness and places them into Christ. Hence, those in Peter's intended audience that had been placed in Christ had been healed (saved).
The bogus view is precluded by 1 Peter 2:9-10, because those called out of darkness were once not a people. Thus if those healed were already chosen and saved before creation, they would always have been a people chosen.
and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
Here the bogus claim is made that "you" in the phrase "you were healed" refers to everyone Christ will ever save, all those supposedly individually chosen before creation. Thus when Christ died 2000 years ago, according to this bogus claim, even those not conceived, whose spirits have yet to be formed, were somehow saved. The alternate and biblical view, is individuals are saved when God credits their faith as righteousness and places them into Christ. Hence, those in Peter's intended audience that had been placed in Christ had been healed (saved).
The bogus view is precluded by 1 Peter 2:9-10, because those called out of darkness were once not a people. Thus if those healed were already chosen and saved before creation, they would always have been a people chosen.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
I hear you, but the point is Christs death effects a saving , healing experience for them He died for, His Sheep, Church ! If one is never healed, converted, then its obvious Christ did not die for them !
You deny the dozens of verses that say the saved are "in Him?" I have no need to respond to the complete denial of scripture.
Only when God places a lost individual into Christ are they then "in Him."
Folks, here again we have a Calvinist denying their own doctrine. What did Jesus accomplish by His death on the cross according to Calvinism.
"The doctrine states that though the death of Jesus Christ is sufficient to atone for the sins of the whole world, it was the intention of God the Father that the atonement of Christ's death would work itself out in the elect only, thereby leading them without fail to salvation."
1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes individual election before creation, because if true then we would have always been a people.
People who will be saved without fail are saved already. No need to quibble over distinctions without a difference. Thus those supposedly individually chosen before creation have been, without fail, saved according to the bogus doctrine of Calvinism, no matter how many deny their doctrine.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
I do not deny that dozens of verses “say the saved are ‘in Him?’”
I deny there is any scripture that teaches ...
and I deny that the phrase “believe into Christ” appears in any translation of scripture.
That you will not support your claims indicates that you probably have no support to offer. However, I did give you the benefit of the doubt and invited you to support your claim.
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