1 Samuel 28: Was the witch of Endor really able to summon spirits.....?

[JonC]

The Bible says that it was Samuel and some say that it was a demon. What think ye?

If the Bible is correct, it was Samuel. His answer to Saul seems to support this conclusion even if we discount the Bible's claim this was Samuel.

But we live in a more "enlightened" age where Christians prefer their supernatural a bit more subdued if it falls outside of their theological preferences.

 

[canadyjd]

That is what Scripture states. More than this, it strongly implies this was not the first time this woman communicated with the dead.

Well, it scripture says one of Saul’s men knew of a woman with a “familiar spirit”. So she must have had a reputation of sorts.

Many cultures believed some had the ability to receive info/ or communicate with those who had died.

If the power was real, it was demonic.

Peace to you

 

[JonC]

Well, it scripture says one of Saul’s men knew of a woman with a “familiar spirit”. So she must have had a reputation of sorts.

Many cultures believed some had the ability to receive info/ or communicate with those who had died.

If the power was real, it was demonic.

Peace to you

I agree it was a demonic power. We are commanded against it.

 

[Aaron]

The text says it was Samuel. Convince me from scripture it wasn’t.

Again, witchcraft and necromancy are abominations. Convince me from Scripture that God would speak through them when the hallowed channels are closed.

As I said, I don’t think the woman had any real power to commune with the dead.

No one has power to commune with the dead That's the point. Necromancy and witchcraft are really communion with demons which are imposters, deceivers and liars.

That is why she was terrified when Samuel appeared.

Her own words reveal why she cried out. She was terrified when it was revealed that her client was Saul.

As others have stated, God sent Samuel to talk to Saul. Notice Samuel asked Saul (not the woman) why he had disturbed him?

'Samuel's" own words reveal that he was a demon. Is a mission from God properly called a 'disturbance'? And would he appear as an old man? (the degradation of the body through old age being a result of the curse and sin)? Again, no one has the power to commune with the souls of the dead, which are in prison; and much less can they disturb the souls of the elect, who are in the Bosom of Abraham, and much more less can the souls of the elect be disturbed through the power of the Devil.

So the text says 'Samuel,' but the text also says that God would not answer Saul through the prophets. So you have no recourse through a strictly literal reading to reconcile the texts. You must say either that when the text says God would not speak to Saul through the prophets, that the author meant only the living prophets, but that an audience with dead prophets through the abomination of witchcraft would be honored; or you can say that the author meant 'Samuel' as the name the demon took to deceive Saul.

The former is absurd, and the latter is at harmony with the whole of the Scriptures.

 

[percho]

no. all human "spirits" are the "life" in us, which at death goes back to God. “The dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7). It is the "soul" (the real you/I), that after death either so to heaven to be with the Lord, or to hell.

Where in the bible is it stated that the, "soul," is the real you?
After that show where soul is in heaven.

 

[percho]

Also she did not summon the spirit of Samuel, she had a familiar spirit. She summoned Samuel and I find it interesting that he was summoned up rather than down.

I saw gods ascending out of the earth. V 13

 

[SavedByGrace]

Where in the bible is it stated that the, "soul," is the real you?
After that show where soul is in heaven.

the Bible says that each human being has three distinct "parts", "body, soul and spirit"

Thessalonians 5:23, “And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

The "body" is the shell that we live in. The "spirit" is our life from God. The "soul" is the , "the moral and emotional nature of human beings".

ψυχή, "of the moral and intellectual self, of the emotional self, the conscious self or personality as centre of emotions, desires, and affections" (Liddell & Scott, Greek lexicon)

Rev 20:4, "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

 

[SavedByGrace]

Also she did not summon the spirit of Samuel, she had a familiar spirit. She summoned Samuel and I find it interesting that he was summoned up rather than down.

I saw gods ascending out of the earth. V 13

your point being?

 

[percho]

the Bible says that each human being has three distinct "parts", "body, soul and spirit"

Thessalonians 5:23, “And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

The "body" is the shell that we live in. The "spirit" is our life from God. The "soul" is the , "the moral and emotional nature of human beings".

ψυχή, "of the moral and intellectual self, of the emotional self, the conscious self or personality as centre of emotions, desires, and affections" (Liddell & Scott, Greek lexicon)

Rev 20:4, "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

Rev 20:4,5 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Acts 2:31 “he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. --- Christ soul was not left, the soul David was both dead and buried, in Hades V 29

Consider: 1 Thes 4:14 for if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, (from Hades Acts 2:31) so also ( From Hades, by resurrection) God those asleep through Jesus he will bring with him, (To rule with him on the earth Rev 20:4,5 Rev 5:10)

 

[SavedByGrace]

Rev 20:4,5 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Acts 2:31 “he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. --- Christ soul was not left, the soul David was both dead and buried, in Hades V 29

Consider: 1 Thes 4:14 for if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, (from Hades Acts 2:31) so also ( From Hades, by resurrection) God those asleep through Jesus he will bring with him, (To rule with him on the earth Rev 20:4,5 Rev 5:10)

so you give some Scripture references? for what purpose, just tell what point are you trying to make?

 

[Aaron]

your point being?

Ecclesiastes 3:21

 

[SavedByGrace]

Ecclesiastes 3:21

does not deal with the Samuel story!

 

[Aaron]

does not deal with the Samuel story!

You're in denial, and I'm not talking about a river in Egypt.

The witch saw spirits ascending from the earth, not descending from God.

 

[canadyjd]

Again, witchcraft and necromancy are abominations. Convince me from Scripture that God would speak through them when the hallowed channels are closed.

No one has power to commune with the dead That's the point. Necromancy and witchcraft are really communion with demons which are imposters, deceivers and liars.

Her own words reveal why she cried out. She was terrified when it was revealed that her client was Saul.

'Samuel's" own words reveal that he was a demon. Is a mission from God properly called a 'disturbance'? And would he appear as an old man? (the degradation of the body through old age being a result of the curse and sin)? Again, no one has the power to commune with the souls of the dead, which are in prison; and much less can they disturb the souls of the elect, who are in the Bosom of Abraham, and much more less can the souls of the elect be disturbed through the power of the Devil.

So the text says 'Samuel,' but the text also says that God would not answer Saul through the prophets. So you have no recourse through a strictly literal reading to reconcile the texts. You must say either that when the text says God would not speak to Saul through the prophets, that the author meant only the living prophets, but that an audience with dead prophets through the abomination of witchcraft would be honored; or you can say that the author meant 'Samuel' as the name the demon took to deceive Saul.

The former is absurd, and the latter is at harmony with the whole of the Scriptures.

When Jesus was transfigured, He spoke with Elijah and Moses. This was a supernatural event that was of God.

I reject your choices. The woman had no power. God sent Samuel to give Saul a message. He used Saul’s evil intent, as He does, for His own glory.

We will just disagree.

peace to you

 

[JonC]

Where in the bible is it stated that the, "soul," is the real you?
After that show where soul is in heaven.

 

[robycop3]

As a person who's read eleven different Bible versions cover-to-cover repeatedly, I've never seen one quark of Scripture saying it eas anyone or anything but Sam who appeared.

And Sam was a bit miffed, as he said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me?"

There's simply no good reason to believe it was anyone else!

(The witch likely surmised it was Saul, as Saul was about 7 feet tall, the tallest man in Israel. Scripture doesn't say Sammy told her.)

 

[George Antonios]

So the LORD wasn't answering Saul through hallowed means, yet when Saul goes to commune with devils, the LORD says, "OK, just this one time I'll be moved by the abominable arts of witchcraft necromancy"?

I think you should know the Lord better than that.

The way you frame "I'll be moved" is loaded.

Consider that the Lord did indeed appear unto Balaam the first couple of times as he used enchantments:
Num 24:1 And when Balaam saw that it pleased the LORD to bless Israel, he went not, as at other times, to seek for enchantments, but he set his face toward the wilderness.

 

[George Antonios]

And it wasn't Samuel, it was a demon.

The narrative says it was Samuel, brother.

 

[37818]

That is what Scripture states. More than this, it strongly implies this was not the first time this woman communicated with the dead.

I am of the persuasion she communicated with lying spirits in the name of the dead. ". . . woman that hath a familiar spirit, . . ."

 

[Aaron]

I reject your choices.

Natch.

The woman had no power.

As I said.

God sent Samuel to give Saul a message.

God wasn't answering Saul through prophets, remember? It says so in the text.

We will just disagree.

Natch.