1 Timothy 2:4 - "God wills ALL men to be saved"

[MennoSota]

MennoSota.... you said..."God is not obligated, nor does he ever force himself to be obligated to sinners."

Well... let's define 'obligation'.....

oblagation: "something that you must do because of a law, rule, promise, etc." [Merriam-Webster Dictionary]

So according to you...God is not obligated to keep even ONE single promise he has made to man (sinners).

Wow...looks like your imagination about God makes him a liar.

-----

Nope. I said that God is not obligated to save even one sinner. God never obligated himself to such a thing. In fact, if God were obligated it would remove grace from salvation. You would be saved, not because God chose to pardon you, but because you did something that obligated God to save you.

Why, bbmember, would you want to preach salvation by works and not by grace? In so doing, you preach the message that Paul condemns in his letter to the Galatians.

So, answer this question.

Are you saved by God's grace and by God's grace alone?

Yes or No?

 

[MennoSota]

Romans 11:33-36

God owes us nothing.

33 Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! 34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” 35 “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” 36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.

 

[bbmember]

So are you saying that those who believe in the sovereignty of God worship a false god and are not saved?

I don't believe that Calvinists believe in the sovereignty of God. If they did, they wouldn't contradict him. And no, I don't believe that people who contradict God are saved.

 

[bbmember]

Nope. I said that God is not obligated to save even one sinner. God never obligated himself to such a thing. In fact, if God were obligated it would remove grace from salvation. You would be saved, not because God chose to pardon you, but because you did something that obligated God to save you.

Why, bbmember, would you want to preach salvation by works and not by grace? In so doing, you preach the message that Paul condemns in his letter to the Galatians.

So, answer this question.

Are you saved by God's grace and by God's grace alone?

Yes or No?

By God's gift of grace I am saved through faith...my belief in the only begotten Son of God for my salvation (John 3:16/Eph 2:8,9).

I believe God's conditions for salvation and condemnation as he himself gave us in John 3:16-18. That does NOT mean that you have to believe him too...you can choose to not believe the conditions (to your own peril). Praise God that he gave you a choice and didn't unjustly do your choosing for you!

So you still think God is not obligated to keep his promises?

 

[MennoSota]

By God's gift of grace I am saved through faith...my belief in the only begotten Son of God for my salvation (John 3:16/Eph 2:8,9).

I believe God's conditions for salvation and condemnation as he himself gave us in John 3:16-18. That does NOT mean that you have to believe him too...you can choose to not believe the conditions (to your own peril). Praise God that he gave you a choice and didn't unjustly do your choosing for you!

So you still think God is not obligated to keep his promises?

You are removing grace and adding your own work. Why do you insist on throwing grace out of salvation?

 

[Tulipbee]

I don't believe that Calvinists believe in the sovereignty of God. If they did, they wouldn't contradict him. And no, I don't believe that people who contradict God are saved.

How can you say that when you don't know God?

 

[Yeshua1]

I wonder why Calvinists are so angry. But I guess if I worshipped a cruel and unjust god I guess I'd be angry too!

God made me a promise in John 3:16 and his Word is good enough for me! I trust him to keep his Word!

God is still in absolute control correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

So are you saying that those who believe in the sovereignty of God worship a false god and are not saved?

Think that what is being implied is that unless we allow for real free will, He cannot be God!

 

[Yeshua1]

The Non-elected are commanded to believe in the gospel or be damned. 1 John 5

The Gospel is Jesus died for their sins. If they don't believe this they call God a Liar. 1 john 5.

But according to limited atonement Jesus didn't die for them.

So the Non-elect are commanded to believe Jesus died for them when he has not. 1 john 5.


This is common sense folks.


Say a reprobate goes to hell for rejecting the gospel.

We say well Jesus never died for him.

So how does the reprobate go to hell for rejecting the gospel that never applies to him?





John 3:16

16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


He who does not believe is judged already.

What is the TRUTH that a non-believer is not believing?


If he is a rejecting that Jesus died for him is he not rejecting a Lie rather then rejecting the Truth?




How you preach the gospel good news? Hello stranger, I have great news, We don't know if Jesus died for you.

You couldn't say Jesus died for them else your a liar unless they were declared elect.

Jesus died for their sins, but did NOT purchase them back by His blood!

 

[Jerome]

I Tim 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

"You must, most of you, be acquainted with the general method in which our older Calvinistic friends deal with this text. 'All men,' say they,—'that is, some men': as if the Holy Ghost could not have said 'some men' if he had meant some men. 'All men,' say they; 'that is, some of all sorts of men': as if the Lord could not have said 'all sorts of men' if he had meant that. The Holy Ghost by the apostle has written 'all men,' and unquestionably he means all men. I know how to get rid of the force of the 'alls' according to that critical method which some time ago was very current, but I do not see how it can be applied here with due regard to truth. I was reading just now the exposition of a very able doctor who explains the text so as to explain it away; he applies grammatical gunpowder to it, and explodes it by way of expounding it. I thought when I read his exposition that it would have been a very capital comment upon the text if it had read, 'Who will not have all men to be saved, nor come to a knowledge of the truth.' Had such been the inspired language every remark of the learned doctor would have been exactly in keeping, but as it happens to say, 'Who will have all men to be saved,' his observations are more than a little out of place. My love of consistency with my own doctrinal views is not great enough to allow me knowingly to alter a single text of Scripture. I have great respect for orthodoxy, but my reverence for inspiration is far greater. I would sooner a hundred times over appear to be inconsistent with myself than be inconsistent with the word of God. I never thought it to be any very great crime to seem to be inconsistent with myself; for who am I that I should everlastingly be consistent? But I do think it a great crime to be so inconsistent with the word of God that I should want to lop away a bough or even a twig from so much as a single tree of the forest of Scripture. God forbid that I should cut or shape, even in the least degree, any divine expression. So runs the text, and so we must read it, 'God our Savior; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.'" —Charles Spurgeon, "Salvation By Knowing the Truth"

 

[MennoSota]

That God would want everyone to be saved and that God would will everyone to be saved are two different things.

1 Timothy 2:1-4
[1]I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them.
[2]Pray this way for kings and all who are in authority so that we can live peaceful and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity.
[3]This is good and pleases God our Savior,
[4]who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.

Note the context of verse four as it relates to Paul's call to prayer.

Creating a doctrine with this verse as the cornerstone seems difficult at best when you look at context.

 

[2Dennings]

That God would want everyone to be saved and that God would will everyone to be saved are two different things.

1 Timothy 2:1-4
[1]I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them.
[2]Pray this way for kings and all who are in authority so that we can live peaceful and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity.
[3]This is good and pleases God our Savior,
[4]who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.

Note the context of verse four as it relates to Paul's call to prayer.

Creating a doctrine with this verse as the cornerstone seems difficult at best when you look at context.

I am by no means an expert on greek, but, it is the same word for "want" and "will". Is it not?