#1 What do you Teach other men that "a Church is"? What do Landmarks Teach men that "a Church is"?

[Alan Gross]

1 Corinthians 6:17

1 Corinthians 6:17 "But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit."

An individual soul "that is joined unto the Lord", in Salvation,
"is one spirit", with the Lord.

Nothing there about a local "church" body, or church "body", etc.
...

Some sample occurrences of a local "church" body,
or church "body", etc., as we see in the book of Ephesus.

Ephesians 1:1; "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:"

This Epistle is written and sent to "the saints which are at Ephesus"
the local governing body assemblage of Jesus Christ, at Ephesus.
...

The problem of Ephesians 1:22-23 with 3:19.

22b; "...and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23; "which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all."

1:22; "And hath put all things under his feet,
and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

1:23; "Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all."

"This is the most often-used Scripture
to refer to the universal church.

"Yet, even this same body, "filled unto all the fulness of God,"
is presently applied, in the apostle's prayer,
to this particular congregation in 3:19
when he prays that those members in the church at Ephesus,
"might be filled with all the fulness of God."

19; "And to know the love of Christ,
which passeth knowledge, that ye"

( "ye" = this particular congregation,
"the saints which are at Ephesus", which is the local
governing body assemblage of Jesus Christ, at Ephesus)

"might be filled with all the fulness of God."
...

Notice:

Ephesians 2:19; "Now therefore ye are no more strangers
and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints,
and of the household of God;"

( "the household of God" = this particular congregation,
"the saints which are at Ephesus", which is the local
governing body assemblage of Jesus Christ, at Ephesus).

2:20; "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles
and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
...

The problem of Ephesians 2:21-22.

"The (local) church (as a governing body assemblage
of Jesus Christ, at Ephesus) is said to be the "temple"
or Dwelling Place of God, "an habitation of God through the Spirit."

"Which might be rendered,
"In whom each several building", for clarity.

"In whom all the building fitly framed together
groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

"In whom ye also are builded together
for an habitation of God through the Spirit."

"In whom all the building fitly framed together"
or "each several building", etc.,

is a reference to the local church = this particular congregation,
"the saints which are at Ephesus", which is the local
governing body assemblage of Jesus Christ, at Ephesus).

"It carries the idea of each local congregation,
of which the Ephesian church was one.

"It is difficult to conceive of the church as a temple
referring to a universal thing.

"In whom all the building fitly framed together"
or "Each several building - each local congregation
(or any similar local church body to this one at Ephesus)
grows together to form a holy temple in the Lord.

"It is clear that "temple" is a metaphor used of local churches
as each being a Dwelling Place of God as the, "Habitation of God."

2:21; "In whom all the building fitly framed together
groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

2:22; "In whom ye also are builded together
for an habitation of God through the Spirit."
...

Notice:

3:21; "Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus
throughout all ages, world without end. Amen."

"Unto him be glory in the church"
is a reference to the local church = this particular congregation,
"the saints which are at Ephesus", which is the local
governing body assemblage of Jesus Christ, at Ephesus,

and applies to any similar local church body
to this one at Ephesus, "throughout all ages, world without end."
...

The problem of Ephesians 4:3.

"This, with the verses that follow,
form an exhortation to the Ephesian church to unity.

"The sevenfold basis of unity is given,
one of which is said to be "one body."

"How could that church, or any other,
keep the unity in the matter of one body,
if that body is universal and invisible?

4:3; "Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit
in the bond of peace."

con't

 

[Alan Gross]

There is one Body, with many members.

Ephesians 4:4; says, "There is one body",

There is "one body" in the Bible.

The "one body" in the Bible is always a reference
to the local church = this particular congregation,
"the saints which are at Ephesus", which is the local
governing body assemblage of Jesus Christ, at Ephesus,

and also applies to any similar local church body
to this one at Ephesus, organized and structured
by The New Testament pattern regarding Church Truth.
...

The problem of Ephesians 4: 7-12.

"Jesus Christ has given evangelists, pastors, and teachers
for the "perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry,
for the edifying of the body of Christ."

"How can evangelists, pastors, and teachers
edify a universal, spiritual body,
when they can only minister in one locality at one time?

"They could edify part of it (if it were universal),
but not the whole of it.

"Yet they are said to be given to edify "The Body of Christ."


4:7; "But unto every one of us is given grace
according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

4:8; "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high,
he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

4:9; "(Now that he ascended,
what is it but that he also descended first
into the lower parts of the earth?

4:10; "He that descended is the same also
that ascended up far above all heavens,
that he might fill all things.)


4:11; "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets;
and some, evangelists; and some, pastors, and teachers;

4:12; "For the perfecting of the saints,
for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
...

The problem of Ephesians 4:12-16.

"As we have seen above, Christ gave His church the gifts;

"For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry,
for the edifying of the body of Christ:

"Till we all come in the unity of the faith,
and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man,
unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro,
and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men,
and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

"But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things,
which is the head, even Christ:

"From whom the whole body fitly joined together
and compacted by that which every joint supplieth,
according to the effectual working in the measure of every part,
maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."

"How can a universal, invisible "church"
come to a full maturity and be not tossed about
by every wind of doctrine?

"If this refers, as many believe, to the universal church,
it has never reached this position.

"It would follow, therefore that the gifts
(for they were given to this end) have all failed,
and are failing, and probably will continue to do so
until Jesus comes.

4:12; "For the perfecting of the saints,
for the work of the ministry,
for the edifying of the body of Christ:

4:13; "Till we all come in the unity of the faith,
and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man,
unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"

4:14; "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro,
and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men,
and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

4:15; "But speaking the truth in love,
may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

4:16; "From whom the whole body fitly joined together
and compacted by that which every joint supplieth,
according to the effectual working in the measure of every part,
maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."

The "one body" in the Bible is always a reference
to the local church = like this particular congregation,
"the saints which are at Ephesus", which is the local
governing body assemblage of Jesus Christ, at Ephesus,

and its teachings and instructions from God
also, apply to any similar local church body
to this one at Ephesus, organized and structured
by The New Testament pattern regarding Church Truth.
...

con't

 

[Alan Gross]

"the body of Christ" = Particular saved and scripturally baptized
members of a local governing body assemblage of Jesus Christ,
who periodically convene to bring Glory to God,

Carry out The Great Commission, to Preach the Gospel,
Make Disciples, Baptize them by the Authority of God,
and teach them all things whatsoever Jesus Commanded,

Contend for the Faith,
the Manifold Wisdom and Whole Counsel of God,
The Doctrines of Grace,
Church Truth, and perform the Divine church Ordinances, etc.,
and to Protect and Preserve The Oracles of God,
until their Lord Comes Again.

"the body of Christ" =

"the unity of the faith,
and of the knowledge of the Son of God" =

"the whole body fitly joined together" =

"the effectual working in the measure of every part,
maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."

...

Notice:

The "one body" in the Bible is always a reference
to the local church = this particular congregation,
"the saints which are at Ephesus", which is the local
governing body assemblage of Jesus Christ, at Ephesus,

and also applies to any similar local church body
to this one at Ephesus, organized and structured
by The New Testament pattern regarding Church Truth.


For example, here are the local "members one of another",
"kind one to another", "forgiving one another",
"Submitting yourselves one to another", etc., etc.


4:25; "Wherefore putting away lying,
speak every man truth with his neighbour:
for we are members one of another."

4:32; "And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted,
forgiving one another,
even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."

5:21; "Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God."

"THOSE PARTICULAR MEMBERS
are said to be what the Bible calls, "The Body of Christ",
(at Ephesus, etc., and so on.)
...

The problem of Ephesians 5:25-27.

"Husbands love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church,
and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it
with the washing of water by the word,

"That he might present to himself a glorious church,
not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing;

"but that it should be holy and without blemish."

"How can a bride be existing as such
when not yet wedded to Christ, nor complete?

"The bride must be complete, accepted, and glorified
according to this Scripture and Revelation 19.

5:25; "Husbands, love your wives,
even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

5:26; "That he might sanctify and cleanse it
with the washing of water by the word,

5:27; "That he might present it to himself a glorious church,
not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing;
but that it should be holy and without blemish."
...

Adapted from:
The Concept of the Church as A Universal, Invisible,
Mystical, Spiritual Body Composed of all Believers,
Either of All Time, or the Church Age.
by E. Nile Fisher.

 

[Logos1560]

In his 767 page book, Greg Nichols considers and examines "every passage where ekklesia occurs in the New Testament" (p. 96).

Concerning 1 Corinthians 12:28, Greg Nichols wrote: "God did not give the apostles only to one local church. He deposited them in the churches collectively. As Paul said: 'as I teach everywhere in every church,' and, 'so I ordain in all the churches' (1 Cor. 4:17, 7:17)." (Lectures in Systematic Theology, Volume IV: Doctrine of the Church, p. 61).

Greg Nichols wrote: "Similarly, it embraces every church in which the apostles labored and taught. No church under apostolic rule is excluded from it. Thus, Paul here views the church inclusively, as Jesus did in Matthew 16:18. Thus, Paul uses ekklesia collectively. Every local church under apostolic rule is part of this global church universal. Thus, Paul views the church universal, not as an abstract idea, but as a society composed collectively of all local churches. He refers concretely to the extant society of saints on earth. Therefore, this text furnishes vital information about the essential idea of the church" (p. 61).

Concerning Eph. 3:21, Greg Nichols wrote: "Ekklesia clearly does not refer exclusively to one local assembly. Context strongly suggests that ekklesia has the same meaning as in 3:10. The church universal transcends the bounds of one generation. It will glorify God through its unique purpose in every generation: 'unto all generations, forever and ever.' No single local church can possibly be in view" (p. 73).

Greg Nichols wrote: "The church in Corinth is the body of Christ, but not his whole body" (p. 71).

 

[Logos1560]

Ephesians 4:4; says, "There is one body",

There is "one body" in the Bible.

John Thornbury wrote: "The only scriptural and rational view of this subject is that the body of Christ possesses five basic characteristics: singularity (one not many), concreteness (a specific entity, not a generic term or an institution), spirituality (consisting of believers only), universality (consisting of all who are saved), and perpetuity (shall never be dissolved)" (The Doctrine of the Church, p. 32).

John Thornbury asserted: "It is evident that 'in Christ' and 'in the body of Christ' are of parallel import, as are 'baptism into Christ' and 'baptism into the body of Christ.' Those who deny the reality of a spiritual body of Christ consisting of all who have been saved jeopardize the doctrine of union with Christ itself, because they pervert and distort the primary figure by which that relationship is portrayed in Scripture: the figure of a head and body in union." (p. 71).

 

[Alan Gross]

Ephesians 4:4; says, "There is one body",

There is "one body" in the Bible.

In his 767 page book, Greg Nichols considers
and examines "every passage where ekklesia occurs
in the New Testament" (p. 96).

Have you ever examined the occurrences of words in the Bible,
to see if you get what they mean there and, if not,

to simply alter and adjust what those Bible words mean
and have always meant, in every respect Biblically, Linguistically,
and Historically, and then,

just make whatever thing you decide that you think those words
"should really mean there", "rationally", "reading them the right way",

and say in addition that they are only now able to be understood
"the only Scriptural way"?

I know that I certainly have experienced your use of that "Theology",
to use that word, when you would truly beat the dead horse to death

by your inconceivable (to me) participation in any manner,
in having paid the least bit of attention
to anything a dead horse Ruckmanite ever had to say,

then to have actually responded(???) to them(???)
incessantly, interminably, on and on, relentlessly, repeatedly,
tirelessly forever and ever and ever and ever, beating & beating away.

(Dead issue, much?)

So, there that is.

And now, you are taking on something that has to do with Christianity?

Greg Nichols and John Thornbury sure are barrelling full steam ahead
into what

John Thornbury wrote: "The only scriptural and rational view of this subject is

where he is way too quick on the draw to be all slap-happy about
running to his sin-cursed reasoning for my taste.

Either one of them.

The rational has to be subservient to the Spirit,
which is always considered a higher faculty of knowledge
and discernment disclosing the intrinsic meaning and purpose of life,
particularly as revealed by God and His Word...

A Spiritually based concept of rationality
aims at restoring the priority of the Spirit over the rational.

THAT'S WHAT WE NEED.

They don't have a beginning clue
about the Biblical concept of a "church" is.

(To be fair, most people alive don't.)

And, somehow, they want to JUMP UP AND SWITCH MEANINGS???

Anytime, anywhere, any way they feel? Right now? Without hesitating?

Or thinking? Or thinking it AIN'T RIGHT TO BE DOING???
...

Concerning 1 Corinthians 12:28, Greg Nichols wrote:
"God did not give the apostles only to one local church.
He deposited them in the churches collectively.
As Paul said: 'as I teach everywhere in every church,'
and, 'so I ordain in all the churches' (1 Cor. 4:17, 7:17)."
(Lectures in Systematic Theology, Volume IV:
Doctrine of the Church, p. 61).

"God did not give the apostles only to one local church."

God gave apostles, who were sent out by the Authority of a church vote
from their home church, to travel and teach in the various local churches
and/or they were members in one or the other of them.

God gave all of the members to any specific local church body,
I Corinthians 12:18; "But now hath God set the members
every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased Him."

God gave apostles and various teachers, etc.,
into specific church bodies;
Ephesians 4:11; "And He gave some, apostles;
and some, prophets; and some, evangelists;
and some, pastors, and teachers"

God gave apostles and various teachers, etc.,
to specific church bodies,
for the edifying of that particular local body of Christ

4:12; "For the perfecting of the saints,
for the work of the ministry,
for the edifying of the body of Christ:"

"He deposited them in the churches collectively."

Dunno what this fellow thinks to intend by "collectively".

No, apostles or not, didn't/ don't belong to "all churches" "collectively".

As Paul said: 'as I teach everywhere in every church,'
and, 'so I ordain in all the churches' (1 Cor. 4:17, 7:17).

Just as God gave Jesus' first church at Jerusalem apostles,
as her first members, as we see in the chapter on gifts of the Spirit;
1 Corinthians 12:28; "And God hath set some in the church,
first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers,
after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps,
governments, diversities of tongues."

Paul taught and said: 'as I teach everywhere in every church,'
1 Corinthians 4:17; "For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus,
who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord,
who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways
which be in Christ, as I teach everywhere in every church."

and Paul instructed various teachings
to all the local church bodies he visited,
'so I ordain in all the churches';
1 Corinthians 7:17; "But as God hath distributed to every man,
as the Lord hath called everyone, so let him walk.
And so ordain I in all churches."

 

[Alan Gross]

Greg Nichols wrote: "Similarly, it embraces every church in which the apostles labored and taught. No church under apostolic rule is excluded from it.

Thus, Paul here views the church inclusively,
as Jesus did in Matthew 16:18.
Thus, Paul uses ekklesia collectively.

Every local church under apostolic rule is part of this global church universal.

Thus, Paul views the church universal, not as an abstract idea,
but as a society composed collectively of all local churches.

He refers concretely to the extant society of saints on earth.

Each of these following statements, quoted from the above in bold red,
with their underlined wordings, below, in bold red,
are UTTERLY, COMPLETELY NOT BIBLE TEACHINGS, AT ALL,

BUT ARE THE PRODUCT OF HUMAN REASONING
WHICH HAS MIGRATED AWAY FROM THE SCRIPTURES.

THESE STATEMENTS, BELOW, EVEN MIGRATE AWAY
FROM WHAT THEY START OUT BEING,

"the church inclusively", "ekklesia collectively",
or "global church universal",

= a worldwide total of all church members associated with a local congregation church assembly.

TO WHAT THEY EVENTUALLY END UP BEING,

"the extant society of saints on earth",

= as being "all saved souls", whether associated
with a local congregation church assembly, or not.

WITHIN JUST A FEW SENTENCES.

NONE OF THESE STATEMENTS PASS THE TEST OF THE BIBLE;

"Paul here (in I Corinthians 12:28)
views the church inclusively,

"Thus, Paul uses ekklesia collectively"

"Every local church under apostolic rule
is part of this global church universal",

"Paul views the church universal"
as a society composed collectively of all local churches",

"He refers concretely to the extant society of saints on earth",

The statements above and below in red
ARE ALL absolutely, 100%,
in opposition to God and His Word

and what He has revealed in His Instruction,
as to How He is to be Worshipped,

using His Word and definition: ἐκκλησία;
“a gathering of those summoned into a governing body”,
generally speaking

and then as it is meant by Jesus as being His ἐκκλησία;
“a gathering of those summoned into a governing body”
that Jesus also built and modified
and added to that meaning of ἐκκλησία to be:

Jesus' ἐκκλησία of baptized believers,
Carrying Out The Great Commission and Ordinances,
and that Jesus promised to be with "throughout all Ages"

that is HIS Divinely Originated Organization,
IN WHICH GOD IS TO BE BROUGHT GLORY
AND THROUGH WHICH GOD'S BUSINESS IS CONDUCTED,
until He Returns Again, etc.

I see the blending of the words "church" or "body"
INTO THE NEW DEFINITIONS OF;
"church inclusively,
ekklesia collectively,
global church universal,
a society composed collectively of all local churches,
and/or the extant society of saints on earth."

into trying to suggest
what could have been spoken of as a "kingdom"***
(IF THAT IS WHAT JESUS AND THE APOSTLES WANTED TO SAY),
as obliterating and obscuring Jesus' Divine Organization
into a virtual oblivion and incomprehensibility.

***which adds the definition of a worldwide "kingdom"
into the definition of a local-only "church" or "body"

not only bastardizing and adulterating
the definition of a local-only "church" with its original intent
and expression, and therefore effectively removing Jesus'
Divine Plan for His local-only "church" bodies off the radar,

but adding the definition of "kingdom"
also gives "church" or "body" a new meaning
THAT IS DIRECTLY, PERFECTLY, ENTIRELY
THE OPPOSITE OF GOD'S ORIGINAL WORD
HE GAVE US IN WRITING!

This NEW EXTRA-BIBLICAL MEANING contradicts God,
Who is speaking about a locally organized gathering of His people,
into being SOMETHING ELSE that would be
a worldwide disbursal of His people,
and makes His original messages into all lies.

Hint: GOD DID NOT MAKE THIS ADDITION
AND CHANGE IN THE MEANING
TO THE WORD "CHURCH" or "BODY"
AS HE WROTE IT IN THE BIBLE.

from: #1 What do you Teach other men that "a Church is"? What do Landmarks Teach men that "a Church is"?

 

[Logos1560]

Each of these following statements, quoted from the above in bold red,
with their underlined wordings, below, in bold red,
are UTTERLY, COMPLETELY NOT BIBLE TEACHINGS, AT ALL,

BUT ARE THE PRODUCT OF HUMAN REASONING
WHICH HAS MIGRATED AWAY FROM THE SCRIPTURES.

They are guided by the Holy Spirit of truth just as much as you would claim.
They would likely say the same of your interpretations that are the product of your human reasoning.

You incorrectly seem to assume that your interpretations cannot be wrong.

 

[Alan Gross]

The problem was stated here:

Have you ever examined the occurrences of words in the Bible,
to see if you get what they mean there and, if not,

to simply alter and adjust what those Bible words mean

Just making up words and adding them to the Bible,
to Completely Change the Intended Meaning of the Bible Words in verses
has nothing to do with "Interpretation" or even "reading",
IT IS JUST FLAT OUT REWRITING AND RE-AUTHORING GOD'S WORDS.

UTTERLY, COMPLETELY NOT BIBLE TEACHINGS, AT ALL,

BUT ARE THE PRODUCT OF HUMAN REASONING
WHICH HAS MIGRATED AWAY FROM THE SCRIPTURES.

Adding "global", "inclusive", "universal", "collectively", etc., to "local",
is no different than schools saying, "a girl can be a boy",
or "life comes from a rock".

They define self-contradictory contradictions in terms.

Wet dryness. White blackening. Up downafied. Stop Goability.

Btw. How are you enjoying the Midnight Sun?

They are simply unintelligent, unpresidented, bamboozled pure baloney.

That's it. No God. No Holy Spirit. Nothing but flesh.

Where do they think they get the Authority to alter God's Word on a whim?

THESE STATEMENTS, BELOW, EVEN MIGRATE AWAY
FROM WHAT THEY START OUT BEING,

NONE OF THESE STATEMENTS PASS THE TEST OF THE BIBLE;

church inclusively

ekklesia collectively

global church

church universal

a society composed collectively

concretely to the extant society of saints

The statements above
ARE ALL absolutely, 100%,
in opposition to God and His Word

They are guided by the Holy Spirit of truth

Where is the evidence of something like that? Not from the Book.

There are rudimentary principles associated with being literate.

You incorrectly seem to assume that
your interpretations cannot be wrong.

The idea in Bible study should be to have a Bible for what you are saying.

Unless there is some new version I don't know about that only mutilates
the whole thing about words having meanings where it is O.K. to just lie.

 

[Logos1560]

[QUOTE="Ala
IT IS JUST FLAT OUT REWRITING AND RE-AUTHORING GOD'S WORDS.
[/QUOTE]
Incorrect. Your accusation is simply not true. Your private interpretations and understandings are not infallible and perfect.

You may read your preconceived opinions into verses just as much as you accuse other of doing.

They have a Bible for what they are saying just as much as you do.

The Greek New Testament has greater authority than an English translation made from it.

 

[Alan Gross]

The Greek New Testament
has greater authority than an English translation made from it.

Where's their Greek?

You messed up that time.

If they had honestly wanted to be dishonest, they could have proven it,
by throwing around a dash or two of INVISIBILITY into their concoctions.

How could they have let that happen?

Where they missed such a stellar opportunity to PROVE EVOLUTION?

AND HERE THEY COULD HAVE BEEN THE MISSING LINK!!!!

Shucks.

 

[Logos1560]

They don't have a beginning clue
about the Biblical concept of a "church" is.

Your seeming pride in your own human opinions, private interpretations, and mysticism do not demonstrate that you are supposedly the only person with a clue about the Biblical concept of "church."

You try to build you yourself up as you judge unrighteous judgment with your carnal smear tactics against believers.

 

[Alan Gross]

THIS TRUTH CAN NOT BE AVOIDED:

Ephesians 4:4; says, "There is one body",

There is "one body" in the Bible.

A long, long time AFTER the writing of The New Testament,
the types of new word additions with drastically different meanings to them,
like, "church inclusively", "ekklesia collectively",
"global church universal",
"a society composed collectively of all local churches",
"the extant society of saints on earth," "CATHOLIC", "INVISIBLE",
"UNIVERSAL VISIBLE", etc., etc., etc.

ANY ONE OF THOSE MAN-MADE TERMS,
WHEN ADDED TO THE ENGLISH WORD:
"CHURCH", for "EKKLESIA",
EQUALS = = = = = = "TWO BODIES".

NOT "ONE BODY".

THAT WE CAN'T GET AROUND.

WE ARE RESTRICKED TO "ONE BODY" BY THE BIBLE.

You don't get it, do you?

Math is hardball stuff.

The "one body" in the Bible is always a reference
to the local church = this particular congregation,
"the saints which are at Ephesus", which is the local
governing body assemblage of Jesus Christ, at Ephesus,

and also applies to any similar local church body
to this one at Ephesus, organized and structured
by The New Testament pattern regarding Church Truth.

"the body of Christ"
= Particular saved and scripturally baptized
members of a local
governing body assemblage of Jesus Christ,
who periodically convene to bring Glory to God,

Carry out The Great Commission, to Preach the Gospel,
Make Disciples, Baptize them by the Authority of God,
and teach them all things whatsoever Jesus Commanded,

Contend for the Faith,
the Manifold Wisdom and Whole Counsel of God,
The Doctrines of Grace, Church Truth,
and perform the Divine church Ordinances, etc.,

and to Protect and Preserve The Oracles of God,
until their Lord Comes Again.

"THOSE PARTICULAR MEMBERS
are said to be what the Bible calls, "The Body of Christ",
(at Ephesus, etc., and so on.)

"Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular."
I Corinthians 12:27.

"the body of Christ" EQUALS "members in particular."

........it's too soon..... isn't it?....

(that is all "The Body of Christ" EVER MEANS. A LOCAL BODY.

They are ALWAYS Local Specific Bodies of "particular members".

Have you ever looked up the word "body"
and seen it say, "WORLDWIDE", "GLOBAL", "UNIVERSAL", etc.?

God gave all of the members to any specific local church body,
I Corinthians 12:18; "But now hath God set the members
every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased Him."

Jesus' ἐκκλησία of baptized believers,
Carrying Out The Great Commission and Ordinances,
and that Jesus promised to be with them
(Jesus' Divinely Instituted Governing bodies), "throughout all Ages",

that is HIS Divinely Originated Organization,
IN WHICH GOD IS TO BE BROUGHT GLORY
AND THROUGH WHICH GOD'S BUSINESS IS CONDUCTED,
in these individual, independent Governing Bodies,
until He Returns Again, etc.

Just making up words and adding them to the Bible,
to Completely Change the Intended Meaning of the Bible Words in verses
has nothing to do with "Interpretation" or even "reading",
IT IS JUST FLAT-OUT REWRITING AND RE-AUTHORING GOD'S WORDS.

That's it. No God. No Holy Spirit. Nothing but flesh.

Where do they think they get the Authority to alter God's Word on a whim?

They have a Bible for what they are saying just as much as you do.

Ahhhh, uhmmmm, dddaaaahhhhh....

A Spiritually based concept of rationality
aims at restoring the priority of the Spirit over the rational.

THAT'S WHAT WE NEED.

They don't have a beginning clue
about the Biblical concept of a "church" is.

(To be fair, most people alive don't.)

They don't have a beginning clue as to what a "church" in the Bible is,
because they have their own ideas about Playing Church.

They simply Play God.

Bam.

It's over! ...Just...like...that...!

They say,

"Wow, this Greek word "ekklesia" means "a called out assembly",

UNLESS WE FEEL LIKE SAYING IT MEANS, "church inclusively",
"ekklesia collectively", "global church universal",
"a society composed collectively of all local churches",
and/or "the extant society of saints on earth,"

ACCORDING TO US AND ANYTHING ELSE WE FEEL LIKE SAYING,
BECAUSE WE COULD CARE LESS WHAT GOD SAYS, FOR REAL!!

Therefore;

They are simply unintelligent, unprecedented, bamboozled pure baloney.

...

 

[Alan Gross]

They are guided by the Holy Spirit of truth

Behold!! Something told me you wouldn't be bringing any evidence
of the Holy Spirit Guiding anyone into Truth.

He generally goes by the Book.

The Greek New Testament
has greater authority than an English translation made from it.

Brilliant observance. Powerful point. Appreciate you sharing that with us.

Where's their Greek?

Have you seen a Greek manuscript with "inclusively", "collectively",
"global", "universal", "a society composed collectively",
and/or "the extant society of saints on earth," ???????

In the Greek??

I didn't think so.

"Ekklesia" is in there, you better bet, however.

The more recent edits of Greek dictionaries and Lexicons
will even give you a FALSE HERETICAL EXTRA-BIBLICAL MEANING.

Those meanings will be written in English lies of false religion, though.

Those doctrinal errors ARE NOT THE ORIGINAL BIBLICAL GREEK.

You messed up that time.

Maybe you can find the Greek word for "Invisible".

Maybe it's written on the blank pages in the back of the Bible!

IN INVISIBLE INK!!!!

You try to build you yourself up as you judge unrighteous judgment
with your carnal smear tactics against believers.

I what??

"You try to build you yourself up"....?

O.K. Cool.

Anyway, CORRECTION!

Should be, "You try to build you yourself up
as you judge unrighteous judgment
with your carnal smear tactics
against ENTIRELY IGNORANT UNEDUCATED believers."

There...

That's better.

 

[Logos1560]

THIS TRUTH CAN NOT BE AVOIDED:

...

You avoid the truth that your understandings and interpretations are not perfect and infallible. You avoid the truth that you are wrong in condemning believers who disagree with your non-convincing opinions.

You confirm the accuracy of my point as you attempt to smear mature, well-studied, doctrinally-sound believers as being "entirely ignorant and uneducated."

 

[Alan Gross]

You avoid the truth that your understandings and interpretations
are not perfect and infallible.

Unbeknownst to you, I do own an exact copy
of the original language autographs, which were Directly God-Breathed
from the Creator of the Universe, Personally,
which is more perfectly infallible than humanly possible.

I think you've noticed in your studies that there are variations
in the New Testament quotations of the Old Testament scriptures,
by our Lord and the other New Testament writers.

And yet, Jesus and those other New Testament writers handled
their exact copies of the Old Testament, as being the very word-for-word,
Providentially Preserved translations of the Inspired Words of God,

the same in all regards as the Westminster Confession of Faith (1646),
contains in their explicit statement of the Twin Doctrines of Divine Inspiration
and Divine Preservation as being Supernaturally Conjoined and Equally Maintained Biblical Truths (1.8)*,

"The Old Testament in Hebrew" … "and the New Testament in Greek"…
"being immediately inspired by God, (Divine Inspiration),
and by His Singular Care and Providence
Kept Pure in all Ages, (Divine Preservation)
are therefore Authentic" and Absolutely Authoritative."

*Equivalent, if not identical, statements
are also to be found in the Savoy Declaration (1658),
Helvetic Consensus Formula (1675),
& London Baptist Confession (1689).

Want to see some more "Exact Copies"?

English Translations of the Textus Receptus.
(1500-1900)

• 1526,1534 Tyndale New Testament
• 1535 Coverdale Bible
• 1537 Matthew Bible
• 1539 Great Bible
• 1560-1644 Geneva Bible
• 1568 Bishops' Bible
• 1611,1769 King James Bible
• 1764 Quaker Bible
• 1833 Webster Bible
• 1862 Young's Literal Translation
• 1876 Julia E. Smith Parker Translation

Exact Greek copies?

Greek Editions of the Textus Receptus.
(1500-1900)

If you only knew.

You avoid the truth that you are wrong in condemning believers
who disagree with your non-convincing opinions.

New thread:
IS IT RIGHT?: To Judge, To Expose Error, or to Even at times Call Names?

You confirm the accuracy of my point as you attempt to smear mature,
well-studied, doctrinally-sound believers as being
"entirely ignorant and uneducated."

Have you ever examined the occurrences of words in the Bible,
to see if you get what they mean there and, if not,

to simply alter and adjust what those Bible words mean
and have always meant, in every respect Biblically, Linguistically,
and Historically, and then,

just make whatever thing you decide that you think those words
"should really mean there", "rationally", "reading them the right way",

and say in addition that they are only now able to be understood
"the only Scriptural way"?

I know that I certainly have experienced your use of that "Theology",
to use that word, when you would truly beat the dead horse to death

by your inconceivable (to me) participation in any manner,
in having paid the least bit of attention
to anything a dead horse Ruckmanite ever had to say,

then to have actually responded(???) to them(???)
incessantly, interminably, on and on, relentlessly, repeatedly,
tirelessly forever and ever and ever and ever, beating & beating away.

(Dead issue, much?)

So, there that is.

And now, you are taking on something that has to do with Christianity?

Greg Nichols and John Thornbury sure are barrelling full steam ahead
into what has proven them to be startlingly immature, unread and unstudied, doctrinally-unsound heretics*, with essentially zero command of their position
as Bible "believers", who choose to traffic in an Invisible Mystical Universe
which directly opposes clearly revealed Words of God Almighty,
and come off merely "as being entirely ignorant and uneducated",
in the subject matter.

The writings of both of them are collosal departures from the Faith.

*These folks have some nefarious schisms going on and wouldn't be teaching, speaking, witnessing, or preaching to be sowing discord among our people and in the event they were to overtly promote this garbage and cause too much of a ruckus, they would be prime candidates for a vote to discipline them for Doctrinal heresy, in a New York minute.

Any day; all day; every day.

 

[MrW]

There is “a church” (local body) and there is “the Church” (universal Body—not catholic).

Hopefully, most members of the local are also members of the universal, but, for now, the wheat and the tares grow together.

 

[Alan Gross]

There is “a church” (local body)

that is Biblical, that can be taught from the Bible, "ekklesia".

and there is “the Church” (universal Body—not catholic).

that is entirely extra-Biblical that
"You teach other men that "a Church" is", per the O.P.,
however, it can not be taught from the Bible, "ekklesia",
since the meaning of words can't be changed mercurially.

Rationally, locally, and concerning any Fact of God in The Universe,
in The Natural and Spiritual Realms of Reality, if it were true,

that, "the meaning of words can be changed mercurially",

"Anything could be said to Mean Anything at Any Given Time"
and Words and the Meaning of Words and "Meaning" itself
WOULD HAVE NO MEANING UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

 

[MrW]

Ekklesia means “a called out assembly”, which can be a city council.

 

[Silverhair]

I just wonder which particular group / assembly @Alan Gross thinks Christ was referring to when He said "...I will build My church..." Mat 16:18. Alan by his own words can not be a part of Christ's church which has to be in Israel.