1st Corinthians 15 Universal atonement

[Barry Johnson]

He loves His own Covenant people in a more way....

which verse ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Does God tell us why the curse of sin fell upon all humanity?

Does God say that the reconciliation of the curse has fallen upon all humanity?

Quantrill, if sacrificial atonement by the shed blood of Christ pays for that person's sin, in whole not in part, then how can God send a person, whose sins are removed, to hell? Is that the attribute of a just God?

Yes the bible says God reconciled the world. 2 cor 5 .19 . The Atonement does not Glorify. A person has to recieve the atonement that is provided .

 

[Derf B]

Universal atonement is not taught in scripture anywhere.
The gospel goes out worldwide, because God has His people scattered worldwide. Jn.11:49-51

Jesus taught universal atonement here:
[Jhn 5:28 KJV] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[Jhn 5:29 KJV] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

[Jhn 11:24 KJV] Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
[Jhn 11:25 KJV] Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

But more than atonement is necessary. That's why belief is required for resurrection of life, rather than resurrection of damnation.

Remember that Jesus uses the term "resurrection", which means a returning to life from death. And since He is the resurrection, and He calls all from the grave, it is on His authority that all are resurrected. This doesn't mean all are saved to life, as is apparent. Some are saved from death just to go to damnation (which I take to mean the second death) after judgment.

 

[Iconoclast]

Jesus taught universal atonement here:
[Jhn 5:28 KJV] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[Jhn 5:29 KJV] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

[Jhn 11:24 KJV] Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
[Jhn 11:25 KJV] Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

But more than atonement is necessary. That's why belief is required for resurrection of life, rather than resurrection of damnation.

Remember that Jesus uses the term "resurrection", which means a returning to life from death. And since He is the resurrection, and He calls all from the grave, it is on His authority that all are resurrected. This doesn't mean all are saved to life, as is apparent. Some are saved from death just to go to damnation (which I take to mean the second death) after judgment.

Hello DB,
I agree that more is involved in our complete salvation, but the fact that all sins are not atoned for,shows which direction we should look to.
Your verses show all are resurrected, but also that all sins are NOT atoned for.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Universal atonement is not taught in scripture anywhere.
The gospel goes out worldwide, because God has His people scattered worldwide. Jn.11:49-51

maybe not in your Bible. John 3:16 proves you wrong. Even John Calvin disagrees with "Calvinists" on this

 

[Iconoclast]

maybe not in your Bible. John 3:16 proves you wrong. Even John Calvin disagrees with "Calvinists" on this

Jn3:16 does not teach universal atonement in any bible. The Gospel goes worldwide, not all are saved, all sins are not atoned for..

 

[SavedByGrace]

Jn3:16 does not teach universal atonement in any bible. The Gospel goes worldwide, not all are saved, all sins are not atoned for..

that is because people CHOOSE not to accept what the Lord has done for them.

"10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thessalonians 2)

 

[Iconoclast]

that is because people CHOOSE not to accept what the Lord has done for them.

"10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thessalonians 2)

Unbelief is the default position of all unbelievers. If God did not elect and effectually draw them to salvation, not one would be saved. By the way did you offer the greek words for" the sins of" in 1jn2:2 that you suggested the text said??
1John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. (NASB: Lockman)

Greek: kai autos hilasmos estin (3SPAI) peri ton hamartion hemon, ou peri ton hemeteron de monon alla kai peri holou tou kosmou.

Looks like the sins of is absent from the text, but added .

 

[SavedByGrace]

By the way did you offer the greek words for" the sins of" in 1jn2:2 that you suggested the text said??

where?

 

[SavedByGrace]

If God did not elect and effectually draw them to salvation

UnReformed theology, not Bible!

 

[Iconoclast]

where?

(NASB: Lockman)

Greek: kai autos hilasmos estin (3SPAI) peri ton hamartion hemon, ou peri ton hemeteron de monon alla kai peri holou tou kosmou.

Looks like the sins of is absent from the text, but added .

 

[SavedByGrace]

Unbelief is the default position of all unbelievers. If God did not elect and effectually draw them to salvation, not one would be saved. By the way did you offer the greek words for" the sins of" in 1jn2:2 that you suggested the text said??
1John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. (NASB: Lockman)

Greek: kai autos hilasmos estin (3SPAI) peri ton hamartion hemon, ou peri ton hemeteron de monon alla kai peri holou tou kosmou.

Looks like the sins of is absent from the text, but added .

Yeah, I agree with this from the Reformed commentary of Jameison, Faussett and Brown:

"Also for the sins of the whole world. Christ's advocacy is limited to believers (1Jn_2:1; 1Jn_1:7): His propitiation extends as widely as sin: note, 2Pe_2:1, "the whole world" cannot be restricted to the believing portion (cf. 1Jn_4:14 and 1Jn_5:19). 'Thou, too, art part of the world: thine heart cannot think, The Lord died for Peter and Paul, but not for me' (Luther)."

Sound words that are taught in the Bible!

 

[Iconoclast]

UnReformed theology, not Bible!

of course its the bible, God Himself informs us of this;
14 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

 

[Iconoclast]

Yeah, I agree with this from the Reformed commentary of Jameison, Faussett and Brown:

"Also for the sins of the whole world. Christ's advocacy is limited to believers (1Jn_2:1; 1Jn_1:7): His propitiation extends as widely as sin: note, 2Pe_2:1, "the whole world" cannot be restricted to the believing portion (cf. 1Jn_4:14 and 1Jn_5:19). 'Thou, too, art part of the world: thine heart cannot think, The Lord died for Peter and Paul, but not for me' (Luther)."

Sound words that are taught in the Bible!

"Also for the sins of the whole world. Christ's advocacy is limited to believers (1Jn_2:1; 1Jn_1:7):
THE SINS OF IS ADDED BY TRANSLATORS, NOT FROM THE TEXT./

 

[SavedByGrace]

(NASB: Lockman)

Greek: kai autos hilasmos estin (3SPAI) peri ton hamartion hemon, ou peri ton hemeteron de monon alla kai peri holou tou kosmou.

Looks like the sins of is absent from the text, but added .

the sense is still very much the same though. John was writing to believers, so the "whole world" is the lost world of sinners, which they are part of!

 

[SavedByGrace]

"Also for the sins of the whole world. Christ's advocacy is limited to believers (1Jn_2:1; 1Jn_1:7):
THE SINS OF IS ADDED BY TRANSLATORS, NOT FROM THE TEXT./

how comes you guys are so against the whole world of lost sinners being saved? I mean, the Lord sent Jonah to preach salvation to one of the most wicked people of his time, because God LOVED them SO MUCH!

Ezekiel 18 clearly shows the Wonderful heart of Love and Compassion the Lord has for the lost, so unlike the hardline Reformed/Calvinists!

"“But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?"

This IS, "For God SO Loves the whole human race", Embrace it!

 

[Iconoclast]

the sense is still very much the same though. John was writing to believers, so the "whole world" is the lost world of sinners, which they are part of!

I can agree with what you refer to as the sense, yes....in that it is speaking of sins, but because it is not stated that way in the text that tells mem the since is this;

2 and he -- he is a propitiation for our sins, ie, {he has turned God's wrath away from the sins of those who believe}

and not for ours only, ie,[ those who were already effectually drawn to saving faith in Christ]

but also for the whole world,ie,[ he will also be the propitiation for every believing one, worldwide if they also believe.]

That I am certain is what is being taught.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I can agree with what you refer to as the sense, yes....in that it is speaking of sins, but because it is not stated that way in the text that tells mem the since is this;

2 and he -- he is a propitiation for our sins, ie, {he has turned God's wrath away from the sins of those who believe}

and not for ours only, ie,[ those who were already effectually drawn to saving faith in Christ]

but also for the whole world,ie,[ he will also be the propitiation for every believing one, worldwide if they also believe.]

That I am certain is what is being taught.

you are forcing the Teaching of the Bible to fit your theology!

 

[Iconoclast]

SavedByGrace,

how comes you guys are so against the whole world of lost sinners being saved? [/QUOTE]

My friend, as far as I am concerned God could save every person who is still alive, He knows those who are His , I know He has elected a multitude of sinners , so I bring the gospel to everyone I can...Who God saves is what he does, not you or I.

I mean, the Lord sent Jonah to preach salvation to one of the most wicked people of his time, because God LOVED them SO MUCH!

It does not say he loved those but I am certain he sent Jonah for His purposes. If he saved any of those people he did love those He saved.

Ezekiel 18 clearly shows the Wonderful heart of Love and Compassion the Lord has for the lost, so unlike the hardline Reformed/Calvinists!

"“But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?"

This IS, "For God SO Loves the whole human race", Embrace it!

God does not have pleasure in the death of the wicked is true, but that will not stop the judgement at the Great White throne Judgement one iota.

 

[Iconoclast]

you are forcing the Teaching of the Bible to fit your theology!

No...I am understanding what the texts actually teach. That is the correct "sense of the text' as in
Jn 3:16...everyone believing and continuing on in a state of belief.