RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="SavedByGrace, post: 2739239, member: 17370]"limited atonement"!
I prefer the terms Definite Atonement or Particular Redemption.
I prefer the terms Definite Atonement or Particular Redemption.
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2 Peter 2:1 Cannot be referring to a saved believer
- Thread starter AustinC
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SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Yes, I do believe in the latter as 100% Biblical, as passages like John 3:16 clearly teaches that Jesus Christ died for every human being in particular, individually, because His great love is so wide!
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I agree Christ Jesus' death was a definite atonement for the whole world {1Jn_2:2} and it is a particular redemption for all those that freely trust in Him. {2Co_5:17}
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
It was in this manner that God loved his elect throughout the world, that he gave his one and only Son with the intention that every believer will not be lost but have eternal life.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
The "owns" was a sleight of hand. You should have stuck with "bought".
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
so the use of "kosmos" in John 3:15-18, is limited ot the "elect"?
How is this related to 2 Peter 2:1 and the meaning of "bought?"
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
But false prophets also arose among the people, as false teachers will also be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master who bought them, bringing on themselves swift destruction
The same Greek word, ἀγοράζω, is also used in:
1 Corinthians 6:20, for you were bought (ἀγοράζω) with a price. Therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s
1 Corinthians 7:23, You were bought (ἀγοράζω) with a price. Don’t become bondservants of men
Revelation 5:9, They sang a new song, saying, “You are worthy to take the book and to open its seals: for you were killed, and bought (ἀγοράζω) us for God with your blood out of every tribe, language, people, and nation
Revelation 14:3-4, They sing a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the one hundred forty-four thousand, those who had been redeemed ((ἀγοράζω) out of the earth. These are those who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are those who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These were redeemed (ἀγοράζω) by Jesus from among men, the first fruits to God and to the Lamb.
The same meaning is used in 2 Peter 2:1. There is not reason except for personal theology, to understand ἀγοράζω in any different way in 2 Peter.
The trinity desires and wills all lost sinners to get saved, and yet keeps getting frustrated by the will of His sinners?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
take that up with God Incarnate, the Lord Jesus Christ, Who told the Jews who wanted to murder Him in John chapter 5, "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life." (39-40). Notice Jesus says, YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO COME TO ME FOR ETERNAL LIFE. This shows they REFUSE, according to their WILL, not to go to Jesus!
Same thing in Acts 13:46, "And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles." Again it was these Jews, who JUDGED THEMSELVES UNWORTHY OF ETERNAL LIFE, having THRUST ASIDE (REJECTED) the Gospel Message, as they WILLED to do!
You guys will turn any plain teaching of the Bible on its head!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Until the working of and by the Holy Spirit, all will deny the Lord Jesus to save them, as prefer darkness to the light!
Did God the Father intend for all to be saved by that atonement then?
Sufficient to have saved all, but only effectual towards those whom He intended to save!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
It is very clear from the Bible, that not sinner can call or save themselves. Jesus Himself says that the Coming of the Holy Spirit, was to "convict the human race of sin...because they did not believe in Him" (John 16:1-10)
After Peter gave his sermon on the Day of Pentecost, we are told that many of those listening to his message, "were pricked in their heart" (Acts 2:37). These responded by saying, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" (37). to which Peter responds, not, that they did nothing, but, that they must, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (38). The Gospel is Light in our dark world.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
it is clear from the Bible:
"For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!”" Ezekiel 18:32
"God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved" ( 1Timothy 2:3-4)
"The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance" (1 Peter 3:9)
Look at #30
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE! Otherwise the Bible is wrong, and God is wrong! according to reformed/calvinistic theology!
Jesus stated that he came for his own sheep, that His death would a ransom for the many, not the all!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
that is only ONE Bible verse! There are MANY others that clearly show otherwise, like John 3:16!
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