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2 Peter 2:1

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Martin Marprelate

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Revmitchell said:
God can choose to make the plan of salvation such as He Jesus dies, makes salvation available to all but only saves those who believe, and everyone has a choice to believe or not to believe and God is still sovereign.
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Indeed so, but in that case He does not will all men to be saved, but only those who believe and therefore 1 Timothy 2:4 is false.
 
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Revmitchell

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This is the problem with these debates, same words different definitions therefore everyone talks past each other or makes false accusations based on their own view and not the view of the person they are dealing with.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

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37818 said:
Mere denial does not make anything not true. Support your notion with one or two Scriptures.
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Can't prove a negative. General redemption is not found in scripture without taking verses out of context. Jesus said he laid down his life for the sheep, not all individuals without distinction.
 
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JesusFan

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Reformed1689 said:
Can't prove a negative. General redemption is not found in scripture without taking verses out of context. Jesus said he laid down his life for the sheep, not all individuals without distinction.
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Indeed, did not Hebrews state that Jesus died for the many, and not for the all?
 
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Van

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Martin Marprelate said:
John 10:11. "I am the good Shepherd. The good Shepherd givees His life for the sheep."
@Van, does the Lord Jesus give His life for these false teachers?
If so, are they His sheep?
If not, how does He 'buy' them?
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SNIP
I posted why Jesus gave his life. Did you read it. Did you grasp it. Or did you pretend you are so stupid as to not understand it?
Do sheep always symbolize those that belong to Christ? Nope, of course not. So why suggest such stupidity?
Sometimes the sheep refer to the unsaved, sheep without a shepherd. Ring a bell?
I have had it with your incredible nonsense.
 
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Van

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Martin Marprelate said:
Thank you, Van. I love you too. :p
Actually, I didn't ask you why Jesus gave His life. .:)

The Lord Jesus' sheep are a special breed. They can be identified by their ears and their feet. They hear the Shepherd's voice and they follow Him (John 10:27). They have been given to the Lord Jesus by the Father (John 10:29) and He will lose not even one of them (John 6:39 etc.); He knows them and they know Him (John 10:14). He gives them eternal life and they shall never perish (John 10:28). These are the Lord's shep of John 10:11.
Proverbs 26:2.
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Folks, did you see an apology for not addressing the reason Christ bought those heading for swift destruction? Neither did I.

All these posters do is throw up a smoke screen of obfuscation. They ask questions as if answers have not been provided. They refuse to engage in truth.

And now for the umpteenth time, Christ dying for all humanity INCLUDES Christ dying for those who became His Sheep. Does He died for those to be saved, and those never to be saved, ring a bell? Did any of the above post address the actual position presented? Nope.
 
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Van

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Here is the deal, the posters denying that Christ bought those heading for swift destruction are defending their dark ages view that Christ only died for those individuals chosen before creation. It is an obviously false and unstudied view. 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes people being chosen individually before they existed as "not a people" who had not yet "received mercy."

They have claimed, bought refers not to Christ dying, but to God bringing individuals our of Egypt. Never mind the letter is addressed to people who believe in Christ. And Jude 1:4 also says those that deny God have Christ in view.

They have claimed the verse does not really mean the lost were bought, that the statement was not addressing "reality."

But any objective student of scripture can discern those heading for swift destruction were bought, thus providing the means of their reconciliation, even though they did not receive that reconciliation.
 
Michael Hollner

Michael Hollner

Active Member
I have read through all the posts on this thread going back and forth on Calvinism. I was going to give my two cents but I have pretty much given up over debating over Calvinism.

What it all comes down to for me is that after reading Dr. Wilson’s book below on the origins of Augustinian-Calvinism, and the fact that no scholar worldwide, including Dr. James White will even consider debating him, this says a lot.

Dr. Wilson is a worldwide expert on Augustine and lays out a very compelling case against the philosophy of Calvinism. In fact, in my opinion, his book along with the other two destroy this philosophy.

The reason I bring this up is that I would encourage both sides on this debate to at least give Dr. Wilson’s book a try, for frankly, it does get old hearing the same arguments over a few verses year after year. I think if the debate was on the roots of Augustinian doctrine and what the church believed before Augustine, I think that would be interesting.
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Blessings to both sides…..
 
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