2 Tim 2:15

[Salamander]

franklinmonroe said:
The definition you give is the fouth possibility in a dictionary that is almost 200 years old! This is not the modern use of the word "study" which is why the NKJV translators changed the translation and were wise to do so.

The NKJV translators were ignorant to do so and harm the purpose and intent of the passage to encourage Timothy to be studious to the point of his being able to repove, rebuke, and exhort with all authority.

It amazes me the simplistic approach to the Scripture I see so often here.

Simplicity is an attribute, not a calling of God.:wavey:

 

[Salamander]

What did the word "incontinent" mean in 1611?

What does it mean today?

Um, the same thing!:wavey:

 

[Salamander]

The goal of translators should be to take a word in it's orginal language and convey it's meaning in the language of the common man in the day in which it is translated.

If "spoudazo" means "be diligent" in today's venacular, then modern versions are correct.

No, the goal of the translators was to convey to the reader the purpose and intent of the mind of God so that the believer might know the will of God and act upon it accordingly.

The verb usage takes command of the language and insists the direction of Paul to Timothy to STUDY along with the exhortation to be diligent in his studies.

You're taking away the liberty of the preisthood of the believer and placing all authority into the hands of the modern translators.

FOUL!

 

[Amy.G]

Um, the same thing!:wavey:

Really?

2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,


2Ti 3:3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good,


Why don't you go talk to some people today and tell them that they can know that we are in the last days because people are incontinent. They'll think that the popularity of "Depends" is a sign of the last days. :laugh:

 

[Salamander]

It is not actually being argued that the same word in the original language must always be translated exactly the same way every time or in a different context, especially when the word in the original language seems to have been used with a different meaning in the other context.

On the other hand, just because the KJV translators made an argument to justify or excuse their use of variation in rendering is not evidence that such variation was always best or right.

Are you suggesting that use or repetition of the same word in English is somehow worse than the use or repetition of the same word in the original language given by inspiration to the prophet or apostle?

John Eadie asked: "If the apostle selected the term and deemed it necessary to repeat it as fitting to his thought, and did not introduce any variation, why should any version court variety?" (English Bible, Vol. II, p. 408).

A complete understanding of any term in use is never accomplished without taking the synonyms into consideration. The need as to aptly make application of every word used to conclude a comprehensive undrerstanding must be incorportated, else one is left to the mercy of those who dictate to the mind of those they consider to be unlearned and ignorant.

 

[Amy.G]

The verb usage takes command of the language and insists the direction of Paul to Timothy to STUDY along with the exhortation to be diligent in his studies.

No. It simply means "be dilegent". You are adding to the word of God.

You're taking away the liberty of the preisthood of the believer and placing all authority into the hands of the modern translators.

I have plenty of liberty as a believer to check a Greek Lexicon.

FOUL!

You got that right! :laugh:

 

[Amy.G]

A complete understanding of any term in use is never accomplished without taking the synonyms into consideration. The need as to aptly make application of every word used to conclude a comprehensive undrerstanding must be incorportated, else one is left to the mercy of those who dictate to the mind of those they consider to be unlearned and ignorant.

Could you tranlate that??

Please use 1611 English is doing so.

 

[Salamander]

Really?

2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,


2Ti 3:3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good,


Why don't you go talk to some people today and tell them that they can know that we are in the last days because people are incontinent. They'll think that the popularity of "Depends" is a sign of the last days. :laugh:

You're dictating that people must understand that lack of self-control is limited to only bladder control.

I can only suppose that you want people to become ignorant.

When the context is taken into consideration, your use of the modern understanding cannot conclude that incontinence be limited to bladder control. Nice try, but not on this ballfield. You're OUT!

 

[Amy.G]

You're dictating that people must understand that lack of self-control is limited to only bladder control.

I can only suppose that you want people to become ignorant.

When the context is taken into consideration, your use of the modern understanding cannot conclude that incontinence be limited to bladder control. Nice try, but not on this ballfield. You're OUT!

:laugh: You are a funny fellow.

 

[Salamander]

No. It simply means "be dilegent". You are adding to the word of God.

No, actually I'm taking the context of the word of God into consideration without limiting the Holy One of Israel.

I have plenty of liberty as a believer to check a Greek Lexicon.

You sure do, but what is sad is you're trying to deny the liberty of the believer in limiting the Greek to only mean one thing while the context over-rules that demand.

The "mother's" preists have done much the same thing.

You got that right! :laugh:

You might best consider the teaching of paul for Timothy to be diligent to study the word of God to relate to those he pastored rather than just being diligent alone in any endeavor. One might think Paul suggested Timothy to only be diligent as not to miss in the potty.

 

[Salamander]

Could you tranlate that??

Please use 1611 English is doing so.

Eph 6:11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Jhn 5:39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Hbr 4:12For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Would you like more?

 

[Amy.G]

You might best consider the teaching of paul for Timothy to be diligent to study the word of God to relate to those he pastored rather than just being diligent alone in any endeavor. One might think Paul suggested Timothy to only be diligent as not to miss in the potty.

Sigh. Paul was telling Timothy to be diligent to present the gospel in completeness and accuracey as he had been taught and as he knew it from the the word of God.
He was not telling Timothy to "study" as in seeking knowledge.

Diligence means "persistence in achieving a goal". The goal was to preach the truth of the gospel. The goal wasn't to study, in the sense that we understand study today.

There's your context.

 

[Amy.G]

Would you like more?

No thanks. I have my own Bible.

I don't know how those verses explain that confusing post though.

 

[Salamander]

Sigh. Paul was telling Timothy to be diligent to present the gospel in completeness and accuracey as he had been taught and as he knew it from the the word of God.
He was not telling Timothy to "study" as in seeking knowledge.

Diligence means "persistence in achieving a goal". The goal was to preach the truth of the gospel. The goal wasn't to study, in the sense that we understand study today.

There's your context.

Not completely, as the dealing with fables and old wives tales would demand study into their fallicies and also their realtion to truth as to negate the dependence upon them rather than the word of God for instruction in righteousness along with the need for salvation.

I'm amazed at how so many would limt the word of God to salvation only and not include intstruction in righteousness as the Scripture says.

The sense of study today means the same as then. Study requires diligence to be effective, to suggest it doesn't is just plain silly.:laugh:

 

[Salamander]

No thanks. I have my own Bible.

I don't know how those verses explain that confusing post though.

Nothing confusing about what I said, just as there should be nothing to confuse anyone who reads your tag.

Your limited display of what you present regarding this issue goes against what you seem to want others to understand by having no height, depth, breadth, or the length which the word of God offers.

 

[Salamander]

And God has His own Bible. I'd rather have a copy of His.:godisgood:

 

[TCGreek]

Well, I've made my point. over and out. :thumbs:

 

[Jerome]

Look at the ridiculously outdated language recently used over at scienceline.org:

"no matter how studiously we floss and how often we visit our dentists"

Totally incomprehensible! Like anybody would know in this day and age (2008) what in the world they are trying to say.

 

[webdog]

Eph 6:11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Jhn 5:39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Hbr 4:12For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Would you like more?

I don't believe that is 1611 KJV...

 

[webdog]

And God has His own Bible. I'd rather have a copy of His.:godisgood:

What does God need a Bible for?