20 minute vid argues that Rev 20 teaches annihilationism!

[thomas15]

Most pagan, most atheistic, many popular polytheistic religions and the western cults, in particular the Watchtower, teach annihilation. Annihilation is one of the best lies out there.

We will have no excuses, we have the Bible, the Word of God, that is from everlasting and is eternal.

 

[atpollard]

I don't think the common idea that Gehenna referred to a valley of burning trash outside of Jerusalem during Jesus' time on earth has good historical support. But even if it did, trash is burned up to ashes, it is not tormented.

Of course not ... you are an annihilationist.
The Bible says "Death" and the Bible says "Eternal". All of the other words will be hung on one of those two concepts. The "half" of the people that emphasize "DEATH" (like you) will always shade all other words towards Annihilation. The "half" that emphasize "ETERNAL" (like me) will always shade all of the other words towards "Eternal Torment". That is why minds are never changed in these discussions.

A statement was made that the early Jewish listeners did not have a "picture" of an eternal Hell in "Sodom" (which is a valid point), however, I was simply pointing out that there was a valley formerly used for human sacrifices where trash was burned just outside the wall ... so they did have some sort of an image to go with a place of evil where the corpses of the wicked were cast, where they burned in fires that never went out, and where worms devoured them forever. Any city trash dump likely serves as a trash dump for longer than living memory ... close enough to "eternal" for human purposes.

 

[MB]

why not? It IS important, because eternal punishmeant and NOT annihilation, that is ONLY Taught in the Bible!

This is true from that aspect yet there is no difference in being separate from God. This has nothing to do with Salvation. The only important thing is to believe in Jesus Christ. Unless of course you claim to have a perfect doctrine. You being a critic of the KJV should know that your own Bible has just as many mistakes in it as any other . Just as many additions.. Any thing man touches is not perfect.
MB

 

[SavedByGrace]

This is true from that aspect yet there is no difference in being separate from God. This has nothing to do with Salvation. The only important thing is to believe in Jesus Christ. Unless of course you claim to have a perfect doctrine. You being a critic of the KJV should know that your own Bible has just as many mistakes in it as any other . Just as many additions.. Any thing man touches is not perfect.
MB

annihilation, is a FALSE teaching which is NOT in the Bible, and is 100% AGAINIST the Bible's Teachings of eternal punishment. do you get this?

 

[MB]

annihilation, is a FALSE teaching which is NOT in the Bible, and is 100% AGAINIST the Bible's Teachings of eternal punishment. do you get this?

I wasn't speaking to it's truth. I was speaking to what man accepts as truth. After all how would someone like you know what is real truth or not?
The Bible tells us to believe in Christ. Does it say if you do not believe in eternal punishment you will go hell? You being a critic of God's word should know
MB.

 

[atpollard]

annihilation, is a FALSE teaching which is NOT in the Bible, and is 100% AGAINIST the Bible's Teachings of eternal punishment. do you get this?

Don't get me wrong, I believe ECT has greater Biblical support, but aren't you coming on just a little strong?

"NOT in the Bible"? ...

Matthew 10:28

• [KJV] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
• [NIV] Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
• [YLT] 'And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.
• [TR] καὶ μὴ φοβηθῆτε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτεινόντων τὸ σῶμα τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυναμένων ἀποκτεῖναι· φοβηθήτε δὲ μᾶλλον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ

[Strongs: G622] ἀπόλλυμι apóllymi, ap-ol'-loo-mee; from G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully

 

[SavedByGrace]

After all how would someone like you know what is real truth or not?

very simple, I READ THE HOLY BIBLE!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Don't get me wrong, I believe ECT has greater Biblical support, but aren't you coming on just a little strong?

"NOT in the Bible"? ...

Matthew 10:28

• [KJV] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
• [NIV] Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
• [YLT] 'And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.
• [TR] καὶ μὴ φοβηθῆτε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτεινόντων τὸ σῶμα τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυναμένων ἀποκτεῖναι· φοβηθήτε δὲ μᾶλλον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ

[Strongs: G622] ἀπόλλυμι apóllymi, ap-ol'-loo-mee; from G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully

Oh my! people who want to quote the Greek, MUST know what they are talking about! James Strong is NOT an authority on Greek or Hebrew word meanings!

ἀπόλλυμι, the meaning of this very used contextually, is to "suffer punishment", "to be runied", "to be destroyed", as in the loss of ones life. Jesus Himself describes hell a, "and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:42). Is Jesus using false language? And tells Judas "The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” Matthew 26:24. Are these empty words?

 

[Van]

Revelation 14:,9-11,". . . If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. . . ."

Yes, this is the verse used to support the concept of eternal conscious torment. But this view has been rebutted numerous times and nothing has been presented to counter the rebuttal.
1) Does the "smoke" reflect on going torment or only the eternal consequence of that torment?
2) Does the "no rest day or night" refer to eternity or only the duration of their torment?

As you should be able to discern, your view must be "read into" the verse to provide support.

 

[MB]

Oh my! people who want to quote the Greek, MUST know what they are talking about! James Strong is NOT an authority on Greek or Hebrew word meanings!

ἀπόλλυμι, the meaning of this very used contextually, is to "suffer punishment", "to be runied", "to be destroyed", as in the loss of ones life.

This statement makes it seem both views are true. If man looses life in hell, it seems to me he would no longer suffer. I suppose you being a Greek scholar would know that huh?
MB
.

 

[37818]

Yes, this is the verse used to support the concept of eternal conscious torment. But this view has been rebutted numerous times and nothing has been presented to counter the rebuttal.
1) Does the "smoke" reflect on going torment or only the eternal consequence of that torment?
2) Does the "no rest day or night" refer to eternity or only the duration of their torment?

As you should be able to discern, your view must be "read into" the verse to provide support.

What part of "no rest" means the torment ends?

 

[Mark Corbett]

Most pagan, most atheistic, many popular polytheistic religions and the western cults, in particular the Watchtower, teach annihilation. Annihilation is one of the best lies out there.

We will have no excuses, we have the Bible, the Word of God, that is from everlasting and is eternal.

I'm not in any way connected to Jehovah Witnesses. And while it it true the Jehovah Witnesses teach a form of annihilationism, it is also true that Muslims teach a form of eternal torment.

 

[Mark Corbett]

ἀπόλλυμι, the meaning of this very used contextually, is to "suffer punishment", "to be runied", "to be destroyed", as in the loss of ones life.

ἀπόλλυμι (apollumi), like nearly all words, has a range of meanings. When this word is used to refer to what happens at the final judgment, it points to annihilation. I give detailed evidence for this in this word study video:

 

[SavedByGrace]

ἀπόλλυμι (apollumi), like nearly all words, has a range of meanings. When this word is used to refer to what happens at the final judgment, it points to annihilation. I give detailed evidence for this in this word study video:

yeah, I know about your "evidence"!

 

[thomas15]

In the OP there is a question: What do you think?

My answer to that question is: Not much.

 

[Mark Corbett]

Mark:
What difference does this idea make? .
MB

That's a good question. Of course, in general we should want to understand all that the Bible teaches as accurately as possible.

I do not believe that eternal torment vs. conditional immortality should be treated as a primary level issue like the Trinity, salvation by faith in Jesus, or the fact that Jesus really rose from the dead. But I do think it is important to discuss it.

Quite a few people have mentioned the doctrine of eternal torment as part of the reason they left the Christian faith or reject it. That is not a reason that eternal torment is not true. But it is a reason that it is worth discussing, and if the Bible doesn't teach it (and I'm convinced it does not), we could remove one reason for some people rejecting Christianity. This is one reason it is important, but there are others.

 

[SavedByGrace]

In the OP there is a question: What do you think?

My answer to that question is: Not much.

I do "think" that this guy Mark is a one doctrine guy! I have ever only seen him bang on about this for months, if not YEARS! sadly he cannot see that the devil has completely deceived him into believing this LIE!

 

[thomas15]

I do "think" that this guy Mark is a one doctrine guy! I have ever only seen him bang on about this for months, if not YEARS! sadly he cannot see that the devil has completely deceived him into believing this LIE!

It is amazing the effort some will put into believing a lie when the truth is so simple, obvious and rewarding.

 

[SavedByGrace]

It is amazing the effort some will put into believing a lie when the truth is so simple, obvious and rewarding.

Such is the deception

 

[atpollard]

Oh my! people who want to quote the Greek, MUST know what they are talking about! James Strong is NOT an authority on Greek or Hebrew word meanings!

ἀπόλλυμι, the meaning of this very used contextually, is to "suffer punishment", "to be runied", "to be destroyed", as in the loss of ones life. Jesus Himself describes hell a, "and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:42). Is Jesus using false language? And tells Judas "The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” Matthew 26:24. Are these empty words?

I completely agree with you on ALL OF THE OTHER VERSES that far outweigh one verse in Matthew 10:28, but ... come on chief ... be honest about what Matthew actually WROTE!

I may be a complete HACK when it comes to Koine Greek (and freely admit it), but is EVERY English translator that has ever lived and every team that has translated that verse also a hack at Koine Greek? Or just maybe, my point that "destroy" really means "destroy" should be taken just a bit more seriously.