21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

[Squire Robertsson]

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[John of Japan]

JOJ loves to change the subject and attack the credentials of those who know his statements are ridiculous. The NET provides footnotes to explain the use of "arm." So JOJ's statement although intended to disparage me, actually identified his animus toward me.

I have no animus towards you. I don't even know you.

As far as me attacking your credentials, so far you have not given any. So how could I attack your credentials when you won't admit to having any?

 

[John of Japan]

By my count you ignored about 35 usages of "arm" for God's power and strength. And it does not matter what you call them, the literal usage does not convey the intended message. Footnotes are needed to explain the figurative expression.

I ignored none of them, but identified them all as anthropomorphisms.

But tell me. In your strong defense of footnotes, do you follow the code theory of communication or relevance theory? It really matters in deciding whether or not to do footnotes, and how to do them.

 

[Yeshua1]

JOJ loves to change the subject and attack the credentials of those who know his statements are ridiculous. The NET provides footnotes to explain the use of "arm." So JOJ's statement although intended to disparage me, actually identified his animus toward me.

I do not think that you want to get into a @#$#@ match with someone like John who has been trained and used to translate scripture!

 

[Yeshua1]

I ignored none of them, but identified them all as anthropomorphisms.

But tell me. In your strong defense of footnotes, do you follow the code theory of communication or relevance theory? It really matters in deciding whether or not to do footnotes, and how to do them.

Expect to get the answer back that Dr Wallace used them in his footnotes! Give you credit for patience towards handling him on this issue, now you know how we Calvinists feel in dealing with our brother!

 

[John of Japan]

Expect to get the answer back that Dr Wallace used them in his footnotes! Give you credit for patience towards handling him on this issue, now you know how we Calvinists feel in dealing with our brother!

It's been real...real...something or other, I'm not sure what.

 

[TCassidy]

Folks, the case is closed

Yes it is. You finally figured out it was a metaphor, not an idiom.

 

[TCassidy]

attack the credentials

You don't have any credentials to attack.

 

[Yeshua1]

You don't have any credentials to attack.

"The priesthood of all believers"

 

[Van]

Lets discuss how actual scholars would discuss translation of figurative expression, where the literal meaning is not the intended meaning. Would actual scholars use logical fallacies, like questioning a differing view by questioning the view holders character and qualifications? No, of course not. That sort of petty behavior is childish, and without value. Also, when asked a question, to say you will not answer it, clearly indicates the goal is not to illuminate the subject.

It was claimed that although some sources say the use of arm to indicate strength or power is a Hebrew idiom, some posters claim it is a metaphor or an anthropomorphism, as if a figurative expression might not be classified as both, or in more than one classification.

The whole point of the exercise to change the subject from the use of footnotes to clarify the meaning of figurative expressions. However, there are examples galore of just that translation choice.

The case has been settled, and once again the use of footnotes has been validated.

 

[rsr]

Settled? Only in your fervid imagination. Tell you what: Why don't you email Dr. Wallace and ask him? Better yet, send him the entire benighted thread to look at. I'm sure he needs a chuckle now and then.

 

[TCassidy]

how actual scholars would discuss translation

You are not a scholar. And therefore not qualified to discuss true scholarship.

 

[Van]

Greek/Hebrew Definitions

Strong's #1023: brachion (pronounced brakh-ee'-own)
properly, comparative of 1024, but apparently in the sense of brasso (to wield); the arm, i.e. (figuratively) strength:--arm.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
brachiōn

1) the arm
1a) the arm of God is a Hebrew idiom for the might and power of God.

Usage:

This word is used 3 times:

Luke 1:51: "strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their"
John 12:38: "and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?"
Acts 13:17: "and with a high arm brought he them"

 

[Van]

Settled? Only in your fervid imagination. Tell you what: Why don't you email Dr. Wallace and ask him? Better yet, send him the entire benighted thread to look at. I'm sure he needs a chuckle now and then.

Yet another disparagement post. The NET uses footnotes galore to explain figurative expressions such as the "arm" of God.
There is no need to throw sandbox litter into the air and shout "taint so."

 

[rsr]

Yep. Another disparagement post. One richly deserved.

 

[TCassidy]

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
brachiōn

1) the arm
1a) the arm of God is a Hebrew idiom for the might and power of God.

Not so fast. My Thayers says:

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
βραχίων

βραχίων, βραχίονος, ὁ (from Homer down), the arm: the βραχίων of God is spoken of Hebraistically for the might, the power of God, Luke 1:51 (cf. Deuteronomy 4:34; Deuteronomy 5:15; Deuteronomy 26:8); John 12:38 (Isaiah 53:1); Acts 13:17.

 

[Van]

You guys claimed, erroneously, my example of using a footnote for an idiom was not an idiom. First it was a metaphor, then an anthropomorphism, and next we get Hebraistically, but not idiomatically. I provided a NET footnote, and a Lexicon, but you guys still are shouting taint so.

Below is a Biblical example of a Hebrew idiom in a literal translation wherein the idiom was rendered literally, and a thought-for-thought translation that presents the same verses using more interpretation for the reader.

Psalm 10:15 (English Standard Version)
15 Break the arm of the wicked and evildoer; call his wickedness to account till you find none.

Psalm 10:15 (New Century Version)
15 Break the power of wicked people. Punish them for the evil they have done.

 

[rsr]

Could you please, please, drop the "taint so"? It, like your general demeanor, is extremely irritating. But I suppose that's why you do it, eh? Maybe you should deal with Doc's comments instead of preening about your own rectitude. It's tiring. Very tiring.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.

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