3rd of 2 Thess. 2:1-4, the Rapture

[BobRyan]

Another obvious point is that this Messianic 490 year timeline INCLUDES the Messianic events it lists. So not only does it remain intact AS IS (no slicing and dicing) but also the coming of the Messiah, and the cross where Christ causes the sacrifices and offerings to 'cease' permenantly all their significance before the Lord (Heb 10:4-12) - are key Gospel events LISTED in the timeline and INCLUDED in the contiguous unbroken timeline.

John Wesley seems to “get it”
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3504/3.html#000039


Matthew Henry seems to “get it”
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3504/3.html#000038


Martin Luther seems to “get it”
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3504/3.html#000037

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Tiggy:
Do you coincide the rapture with the last trumpet to be sounded as in Revelation chapter 11

The rapture (1Thess 4) includes the "Shout" the Trumpet blast and the "Voice" of the archangel.

1Thess 4
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

It is seen in Rev 19, it is seen in 1Thess 4.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Tiggy:
Do you coincide the rapture with the last trumpet to be sounded as in Revelation chapter 11

NO, again here is an example of folks failing to understand the "FEAST DAYS".

The "Day of Christ/Feast of Trumpets" corrsponds to the "Rapture", this "TRUMPET" (Voice) is the "LAST (trump) VOICE OF JESUS" (Holy Ghost) as "HE" is "taken out of the way" for the trib to follow.

But the "LAST TRUMPET" was blown when "ATONEMENT" was made and "FINISHED",

in the "DAY OF ATONEMENT" which corresponds to the Trib period.

The "GOAT OF SIN"...Sacrificed".. represented the "BODY OF FLESH", we sacrifice our "Goat" when we "Crucify the flesh" (old man).

On the Cross, Jesus "BECAME SIN" his "BODY" became a "GOAT OF SIN" sacrificed "FOR SIN", in other words he became the "SCAPEGOAT".

"BY HIS STRIPES" Jesus made "ATONEMENT" with God, however Israel rejected Jesus, and God uses the AC as a "ROD" to inflict "STRIPES" on their "FLESH" (murder/abuse) as "Chastisement",

but the "BODY OF CHRIST" (Jesus) has already suffered "Stripes" for the "Church, therefore the Church will "LITERALLY PASSOVER (pre trib rapture) the trib period of Chastisement.

This is why Jesus is called the "PASSOVER LAMB".

The Church only "SPIRITUALLY" crucifies the "OLD GOAT", while Israel will have to "LITERALLY" crucify the "OLD GOAT", to make "ATONEMENT", if they chose to be saved.

Re 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. (Physical Stripes)

Re 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God,

Re 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Amen, Brother Me4Him -- Preach it!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Another obvious point is that this Messianic 490 year timeline INCLUDES the Messianic events it lists. So not only does it remain intact AS IS (no slicing and dicing) but also the coming of the Messiah, and the cross where Christ causes the sacrifices and offerings to 'cease' permenantly all their significance before the Lord (Heb 10:4-12) - are key Gospel events LISTED in the timeline and INCLUDED in the contiguous unbroken timeline.

John Wesley seems to “get it”
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3504/3.html#000039


Matthew Henry seems to “get it”
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3504/3.html#000038


Martin Luther seems to “get it”
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3504/3.html#000037

Such arguments COUNT AGAINST YOU on this BB = Baptist Board.

 

[Me4Him]

Sheee!!!, I knew the "SPIRIT" had taught me a lot, but not above the likes of Wesley, Henry, Luther,

I'll have to give "HIM" an "Extra THANKS".

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
I knew the "SPIRIT" had taught me a lot, but not above the likes of Wesley, Henry, Luther,

I'll have to give "HIM" an "Extra THANKS".

Amen, Brother Me4Him - Praise Jesus \o/

Unlike Wesley, Henry, and Luther - God picked
you to minister in the Twenty-first Century
(2001-2100). So go for it, Bro Me4Him!

!

!

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Another obvious point is that this Messianic 490 year timeline INCLUDES the Messianic events it lists. So not only does it remain intact AS IS (no slicing and dicing) but also the coming of the Messiah, and the cross where Christ causes the sacrifices and offerings to 'cease' permenantly all their significance before the Lord (Heb 10:4-12) - are key Gospel events LISTED in the timeline and INCLUDED in the contiguous unbroken timeline.

John Wesley seems to “get it”
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3504/3.html#000039


Matthew Henry seems to “get it”
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3504/3.html#000038


Martin Luther seems to “get it”
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3504/3.html#000037

And also listed there were Adam Clarke and Jamieson Fausset Brown.

Truly a good list to toss in the garbage if your interest is to "serve" the idea of "chopping, hacking and splicing" ONE BIBLE TIMELINE in direct contradiction to the way ALL Bible timelines actually WORK!

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:

Such arguments COUNT AGAINST YOU on this BB = Baptist Board.

Actually the list of people that trash Luther, Wesley, Matthew Henry, Adam Clark, Jamieson Faussett Brown etc just so they can slice dice hack and chop a single Bible timeline -- should be small EVEN on the Baptist board!!

As it is - these list of great Bible students merely sustain the point ALREADY MADE FROM SCRIPTURE which is that ALL BIBLE TIMELINES are contiguous. Slicing, dicing hacking and chopping them has never worked.

Obviously.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by BobRyan:

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Truly a good list to toss in the garbage if your interest is to "serve" the idea of "chopping, hacking and splicing" ONE BIBLE TIMELINE in direct contradiction to the way ALL Bible timelines actually WORK!

Actually the list of people that trash Luther, Wesley, Matthew Henry, Adam Clark, Jamieson Faussett Brown etc just so they can slice dice hack and chop a single Bible timeline -- should be small EVEN on the Baptist board!!

As it is - these list of great Bible students merely sustain the point ALREADY MADE FROM SCRIPTURE which is that ALL BIBLE TIMELINES are contiguous. Slicing, dicing hacking and chopping them has never worked.

Obviously.

In Christ,

Bob

Ya know, the "JEWS" didn't expect a two thousand years period (two days) between their return to Israel and the "MESSIAH" appearing to set up the "literal Kingdom", (MK) either.

Ho 6:2 After two days (Jesus/Church) will he revive us: in the third day (7th/MK) he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

They had no idea, and still don't today, God was going "slice/dice" up that time period by "INSERTING" the "Spiritual Kingdom" of Jesus/church in between, but they were also "Wrong".

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

The end of the trib (70th week) is also the "END" of the promises made to Israel, a "literal/Physical/Reigning" "MESSIAH", and that promise is yet to be fulfilled as Daniel said it would be at the "END" of the 70th week.

The "FACT" that Daniel's 70 weeks began 483 years before Jesus was crucified, and still isn't "COMPLETE", bears witness that the 70 weeks are not finished and to a "GAP" in the weeks.

 

[BobRyan]

As it is - these list of great Bible students merely sustain the point ALREADY MADE FROM SCRIPTURE which is that ALL BIBLE TIMELINES are contiguous. Slicing, dicing hacking and chopping them has never worked.

Obviously.

So making claims OUTSIDE of an actual Bible "timeline" (See Jeremiahs 70 year TIMELINE in Dan 9 or see the 490 year TIMELINE in Dan 9 as EXAMPLES of actual TIMELINES) -- is the fallacy of equivocation.

Ho 6:2 After two days (Jesus/Church) will he revive us: in the third day (7th/MK) he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

They had no idea, and still don't today, God was going "slice/dice" up that time period by "INSERTING" the "Spiritual Kingdom

Wrong.

The 3rd day "raised" with Christ is the PAST TENSE Gospel promise of new birth - the SAME for ALL (even Jews as we see with Paul) as Paul points out in Romans 6.

Romans 6
Believers Are Dead to Sin, Alive to God

1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7for he who has died is freed from sin.

8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

So the 3 days REMAIN literal, intact - not splice sliced and diced to meet the traditions of man.

But the promised benefit goes out to all for all time.

You are simply grasping at straws to defend the chop and slice approach you need with a timeline.

As for Christ "really rising on the 3rd day" -- that is a timeline that we ALSO do not whack hack and chop.

 

[Ed Edwards]

BobRyan: //As it is - these list of great Bible students merely sustain
the point ALREADY MADE FROM SCRIPTURE which is that
ALL BIBLE TIMELINES are contiguous.//

Sorry, your conclusions is NOT true. And those great Bible students
would have all condemned Mrs. E.G. White (a female) error.

Consider the 70 year prophecy of Jeremiah.
Nowhere in the Bible is the period broken up into 'parts'.
Consider the 70 'sevens' prophecy of Daniel.
In Daniel 9 it is broken up into parts 7+62+1.
The BIBLE BREAKS IT UP.

Personally I recommend you drop your "chopping, hacking and splicing"
criticism of God, especially when a North Carolina thunder storm
is in the area

 

[BobRyan]

[QB] BobRyan: //As it is - these list of great Bible students merely sustain
the point ALREADY MADE FROM SCRIPTURE which is that
ALL BIBLE TIMELINES are contiguous.//

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
Sorry, your conclusions is NOT true. And those great Bible students
would have all condemned Mrs. E.G. White (a female) error.

Wow - THAT one came out of left field!!

Care to get back on topic??!!

The "point" was that ALL the authors listed ACCEPT the RULE that ALL Bible prophecy timelines (the 70 years of Jeremiah AND the 490 years of Dan 9 BOTH referenced in Dan 9 in this case) REMAIN IN TACT!!

No chopping.

Slicing

Dicing. Whacking etc.

JUST like the first 7 weeks (49 years) of the 490 years STAY with the entire 490 years SO also does the LAST week (7 years).

Obviously.

Failing to address that - you go after "Ellen White"???

What is up with that???

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Ed said
Consider the 70 'sevens' prophecy of Daniel.
In Daniel 9 it is broken up into parts 7+62+1.
The BIBLE BREAKS IT UP.

The well know Bible commentaries I referenced SHOW that no such slicing, dicing, chopping and tearing of the Daniel 9 timeline is "Excused"!!

The FIRST 49 years (in the first 7 weeks) REMAINS CONNECTED to the entire 490 year timeline JUST as the last 7 years do.

Which means (as they also observe) ALL the Messianic events described remain IN the timeline as well!!

How convenient, obvious. direct and unnavoidable!!

Ed
Personally I recommend you drop your "chopping, hacking and splicing"
criticism of God, especially when a North Carolina thunder storm
is in the area

Hey - how did you know I was in NC??

And even so - why would God object to my declaring that His timelines are to REMAIN INTACT and NOT to be sliced, diced, whacked and chopped by the traditions of men?

Seems like I might get a little extra dispensation from any stray thuderstorm doing that don't you think?

(BTW - what thunderstorm are you talking about?)

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Me4Him]

Without the "Signs and wonders" produced by the "law and Prophets",

"JEWS WON"T BELIEVE"

And

"JESUS WON"T GIVE".

The "L/P" stopped with Jesus, and won't "RETURN" until the "Leadership" of Jesus, (Holy Ghost/Comforter/Voice of Jesus) is "Taken out of the way". (rapture)

"Leadership" by both the "Holy Ghost" and "L/P" DO NOT function at the same time, in the same time frame.

This is "JUST ONE" of the many reasons for a "Pre trib rapture", during the trib "
Elijah/Moses (Two witnesses) will "RETURN" along with many "SIGNS AND WONDERS".

"IF" the 70 weeks are "FINISHED", WHY does Israel go back under the L/P system, WHY Elijah/Moses, WHY is the trib directed "AT ISRAEL"??

Scripture can't be fully understood by knowing "WHAT IS HAPPENING", until you know "WHY IT IS HAPPENING".

 

[Ed Edwards]

BobRyan: //Hey - how did you know I was in NC??//

There is a note at the bottom of each one of
your 11,430 posts which says
you are from NC. Humm, you and I both joined in Aug 2002
which was 1200 days ago. So you have an average of
9.5 posts per day and I have an average of 7.2 posts per day.
I'd already observed that you are the most prolific poster
among those who do not claim to be a Baptist.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
There is a note at the bottom of each one of
your 11,430 posts which says
you are from NC.

Hey 11, 430 odd posts and I just now notice that thanks to you Ed!! I salute you.

Humm, you and I both joined in Aug 2002
which was 1200 days ago. So you have an average of
9.5 posts per day and I have an average of 7.2 posts per day.

I have to wonder about that 9.5 posts/day. They must be counting my "edit" of my posts where I clean them up and remove the goofy mistakes.

Ed
I'd already observed that you are the most prolific poster among those who do not claim to be a Baptist.

Yes I saw that - thanks for pointing it out. It is a high honor to be this verbose and still posting away.

And of course "I still" don't claim to be a Baptist - but I do attend Baptist churches from time to time (some years on a regular basis Sunday to Sunday) -- or at least churches run by Moody Bible Institute

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
...
Scripture can't be fully understood by knowing "WHAT IS HAPPENING", until you know "WHY IT IS HAPPENING".

Amen, Brother Me4Him - Preach it!

 

[Me4Him]

I have about 450 post, since Dec 28 2004.

Average, 1.2 per day.

Let see ya'll post a post that is only a .2 post.

 

[UUall]

The rapture and why its preached has always intriged me. Money? Lucre? I see that Ed Edwards seems to be very passionate about the rapture. Maybe you (ED) could answer some questions i have? Thanks. Talk to you later.

 

[UUall]

JUDE 1 [14] And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,[15] To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Hi Ed
Who are these ten thousand of saints?