5 stones

[Precepts]

Originally posted by Christ4Kildare:
This quote of yours "I'm really beginning to detect the lack of spirituality in here" clearly implies that you think others who find no significance in the number 5 have a "lack of spirituality."

It is always best to address the issue and not the holders of opinions.

Sorry, but the Bible is a little more than a history book. The Holy Spirit inspired holy men as they were moven in the Spirit to pen this Book. You'd better believe the "5 stones" has spiritual implications, and I am addressing the issue and it's just too bad that people express their opinions and deny that their opinions expresssed are open for criticism.

It is a lack of certain levels of spirituality to acertain the Bible is not implicating spiritual meaning. I'm not denigrating anyone's individual spirituality as you have mine, Thank You.

The number five is in direct relation to the topic of "5 stones" and I find your responses a bit condemning as well.

 

[BrianT]

Ezra 2:19 The children of Hashum, two hundred twenty and three.

I won't be able to sleep until I understand the spiritual significance of 223 in this verse. Can anyone help? After that, can someone explain the 95 from the next verse? Or better yet, someone want to tackle the whole chapter, including the 435 camels horses in verse 67? I sure don't want to miss out on the deep spiritual significance here, and there must be lots because there are so many numbers!

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by QuickeningSpirit:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Preach the text ... nothing else.

"brother" larry is that a "command"?</font>[/QUOTE]I am not sure why "brother" is in quotation marks. But yes, it is a command. 2 Timothy 4:2 preach the word;

it's the application that it took the grace of God to have what it took to defeat Goliath, unless you suggest it was all in David's physical ability which I would laugh you to scorn.

I would laugh myself to scorn if I believe that. I believe it was God's sovereignty in action. But there is nothing in the text that connects that to five stones. That is where you have departed from the text.

I'm NOT speculating, God said there were 5 stones and their were 5 stones. The LORD has His reason for stating it and one of them is to apply the doctrine of grace in the matter of overcoming spiritual giants.

And where did the Lord tell you this was his reason??? If you don't have a place where God told you this, then you are speculating. And unless you have received some special revelation, you have no place where the Lord told you that.

Let me remind you of a New Testament truth:

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,(physical) but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

I don't need to be reminded of this truth. It is in fact, something we talked about yesterday morning in our adult Bible fellowship. But it has nothing to do with this topic in the least. Perhaps you could start a thread on this verse. You might find some interested in talking about it.

I stick with grace, you can have all the "mud" you desire.

I hvae no mud; I need nothing other than grace. But I have biblical reason to connect that with five stones. And that is indeed the topic of this thread. To insinuate some are not spiritual because we insist on sticking with what God actually said is not a good method of judgment on that issue. The Bible does tell us how to judge whether things or people are spiritual. Attaching some meaning to "five stones" is not one of those methods. It should not be be your standard either.

 

[skanwmatos]

Originally posted by BrianT:
I won't be able to sleep until I understand the spiritual significance of 223 in this verse.

223 = Division, Division, Perfection.

After that, can someone explain the 95 from the next verse?

95= Judgment, Grace.

435 camels horses in verse 67?

435 = Creation, Perfection, Grace. Oh, and 67 = Man, Spiritual Perfection.

Don't laugh! I know some people who actually believe this stuff!

 

[Precepts]

Originally posted by BrianT:
Ezra 2:19 The children of Hashum, two hundred twenty and three.

I won't be able to sleep until I understand the spiritual significance of 223 in this verse. Can anyone help? After that, can someone explain the 95 from the next verse? Or better yet, someone want to tackle the whole chapter, including the 435 camels horses in verse 67? I sure don't want to miss out on the deep spiritual significance here, and there must be lots because there are so many numbers!

O.K. ***name calling not allowed***, how many fingers am I holding up? It had better be five! How many letters in
g r a c e?
m e r c y?

I wonder??? any implications there?

On the fingers issue, if you thought any less than 5 ,well that's your problem.

[ January 12, 2004, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by QuickeningSpirit:
O.K. , how many fingers am I holding up? It had better be five! How many letters in
g r a c e?
m e r c y?

I wonder??? any implications there?

S a t a n?
d e a t h?
c a m e l?
s i l l y?

May God bless you boutifully, and yes I mean it.

[ January 12, 2004, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Ok, fellas I am out of this discussion - enjoy yourselves

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by QuickeningSpirit:
How many letters in
g r a c e?
m e r c y?

I wonder??? any implications there?

hmmmm ... let me think ...

s a t a n
d e v i l
d e m o n
h a d e s
c u r s e

I think we are on a roll here ... can I get an amen-uh ???? ... No, I mean a real amen-UH... someone just shout it out-UH ... who can help me out here-UH??

 

[Ransom]

QuickeningSpirit said:

Now I suppose this is going to end up a debate over the inspiration of Scripture issue?

Never even brought it up.

All I did was make an observation regarding the posts that said "it has no spiritual implications"

Maybe it doesn't.

You people just like to jump all over me don't you?

If you don't like being jumped all over, don't draw wacky conclusions.

 

[Precepts]

I am not sure why "brother" is in quotation marks. But yes, it is a command.

It may be your screen name, but i have only one pastor, Pastor andy Saunchegraw of the Landmark Baptist Church, calling your "pastor" woul be wrong. Also it denotes an attempt to be some one's pastor with out any leadership of the Holy Ghost. I hope that doesn't bother you, but I am just stating the facts so you're not offended I hope

I hvae no mud; I need nothing other than grace. But I have biblical reason to connect that with five stones

You do? You mean you argue that it doesn't have spiritual implications, but then say you have Biblical reason to connect it? Oh! You must have meant "no reason". Since this is a theological discussion, why is it in the fundamental section? Is this a joke instigated by CS Murphy, a moderator?

But pray-tell, why did the LORD/ Holy Spirit, have it placed in His Book as 5 stones and not just one stone,er, that's all it took, but that's the qeustion, but we find it worded that way in a spiritual book given to man by a Spirit/ The Spirit? Hmmm? I can't seem to "disconnect" it somehow.

And where did the Lord tell you this was his reason??? If you don't have a place where God told you this, then you are speculating. And unless you have received some special revelation, you have no place where the Lord told you that.

I believe I addressed this satisfactorilly above

I would laugh myself to scorn if I believe that. I believe it was God's sovereignty in action. But there is nothing in the text that connects that to five stones. That is where you have departed from the text.

I am laughing!

You mean that God is a Spirit and that His Sovereignty somehow overrides His Word as being spiritual? All words are spirit except in text form, they carry spiritual implications with them, I do hope you're responses are in the right spirit, unless you care for me to take my turn at reading the spirit of your posts as so many have mine! (exclaimation point: that is readable spiritually, I exclaimed something!)

Here's another example of spirtual implication:
Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word

Is your Bible wet? Have you literally taken your soaking wet Bible and washed yourself with it? Hmmmm? Must be something more than meets the eye to this little matter of spiritual implications?

Words have water? Now I can see where the word "H2O" could be seen as water, and the term "hydra" implicates the presence of water, and of course "water" well that's self explanatory, but how is it you were "washed"
( indicating water by the way) by water that came from a word? unless of course there are spiritual implications to that verse?

Maybe you are washed in the Blood of Jesus too? Is there a bathtub some where all sinners are to get in literally and be washed by His Blood?

Now if there is no spiritual implication to the Word of God Who is a Spirit, well, according to
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (Imagine that, the Spirit worshipped in spirit, but without any spiritual implications according to Larry?)

Or is only certain passages in your Bible have spiritual implications? I might get rid of the book and get the Bible!( No, that is not a detracting to a KJVO/MV debate!), but it might be seen that way.

But it has nothing to do with this topic in the least.

O.K. Larry's "discussion" in his adult SS class overrides the spiritual implications of the Spirit of God inspiring holy men to pen down the Word of God which is a spiritual basis for all doctrines of God dealing with spiritual wickedness in high places implied specififcally in the passage.

 

[Precepts]

Originally posted by BrianT:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by QuickeningSpirit:
O.K. , how many fingers am I holding up? It had better be five! How many letters in
g r a c e?
m e r c y?

I wonder??? any implications there?

S a t a n?
d e a t h?
c a m e l?
s i l l y?

May God bless you boutifully, and yes I mean it.

</font>[/QUOTE]I can see this took some real thought a deep theological endeavor as well taking a remarkable amount of time, but does "context" have any implications to the text?

***Name calling is not showing grace***

[ January 12, 2004, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]

 

[Precepts]

Originally posted by Christ4Kildare:
Ok, fellas I am out of this discussion - enjoy yourselves

Don't go away mad Brother Roger, just go away. I'm only joking, I meant none offense

 

[Precepts]

Never even brought it up.

Didn't have to, the scent was in the air

Maybe it doesn't

Maybe it does!

If you don't like being jumped all over, don't draw wacky conclusions.

Next time you want to play leap frog, make sure everybody else knows.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I am not a numerologists and don't know enough about it to contribute any argument - will look on though.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by QuickeningSpirit:
It may be your screen name, but i have only one pastor, Pastor andy Saunchegraw of the Landmark Baptist Church, calling your "pastor" woul be wrong. Also it denotes an attempt to be some one's pastor with out any leadership of the Holy Ghost. I hope that doesn't bother you, but I am just stating the facts so you're not offended I hope

Not offended in the least. I used the name "pastor Larry" because "Larry" was already taken and I am not into wierd screen names. Pastor Larry is who I am. It has nothing to do with trying to be someone's pastor. And the "Holy Ghost" should be properly called the "Holy Spirit" since that is what Scripture calls him. Pastor is also a title. It is appropriate to use it, just as you call men "doctor" who are not your actual doctor.

To say that you have only one pastor doesn't really mean much. Most of the people at my church call me Larry. That is fine with me.

You do?

I accidentally left out the word "no." I, like you, have no biblical reason to connect 5 with grace. We should not do it.

Since this is a theological discussion, why is it in the fundamental section? Is this a joke instigated by CS Murphy, a moderator?

I have no idea.

But pray-tell, why did the LORD/ Holy Spirit, have it placed in His Book as 5 stones and not just one stone,er, that's all it took, but that's the qeustion, but we find it worded that way in a spiritual book given to man by a Spirit/ The Spirit? Hmmm? I can't seem to "disconnect" it somehow.

You can't seem to disconnect it???? You never got it connected. Why did the Lord place it in his book as five stones??? Is the obvious too obvious too see??? David picked up five stones. That is why it says "five stones." There is nothing spiritual there, just as there is nothing spiritual in the other uses of "five" in Scripture. The question for you is "why five" when it only took one??? The sovereignty of God operated on the first stone, not the fifth. David didn't need five.

I believe I addressed this satisfactorily above

Where??? You didn't tell us anywhere where the Lord told you why five stones. Please use the words of the Lord to tell us this, not your own imagination.

You mean that God is a Spirit and that His Sovereignty somehow overrides His Word as being spiritual?

No, I don't mean taht at all. I mean that God used words that mean one thing in teh context, just like all other words mean. There are many words with no spiritual implication. Don't depart from teh doctrine of SCripture and its sufficiency to try to make a case that is unnecessary.

Here's another example of spirtual implication:
Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word

Is your Bible wet? Have you literally taken your soaking wet Bible and washed yourself with it? Hmmmm? Must be something more than meets the eye to this little matter of spiritual implications?

The word is well defined in Scripture as a cleanser. The difference between this situation and the "five stones" is that we can go to Scripture and show that the word is what cleanses us. You cannot go to Scripture and show anything about five. That comes out of someone's imagination.

Or is only certain passages in your Bible have spiritual implications?

The Bible has spiritual teachings. They are made from teh text as given by God. They are not made with man's imagination. When you start down this "spiritual meaning" hidden in words you have left the biblical doctrine of Scripture and asserted that your mind is the authority. As Baptists, we believe in biblical authority. Our authority comes from teh text and what it says. We should refuse extra biblical speculation. Since God has not told us that "five" means anything other than "five," we should stick with that.

O.K. Larry's "discussion" in his adult SS class overrides the spiritual implications of the Spirit of God inspiring holy men to pen down the Word of God which is a spiritual basis for all doctrines of God dealing with spiritual wickedness in high places implied specififcally in the passage.

In case you forgot, this thread is about five stones, not about the use of Scripture is spiritual warfare. Five stones means fives stones. We need to accept that since that is what Scripture says. It does not say anything else.

 

[blackbird]

While you guys have been argueing with each other----ummmmmmmmm----look yonder---the giants are makin' another assault! Pay attention to the battle, boys! You'll feel the point of Goliath's spear if you don't!!!

You ever thought what it was like on that battlefield David was on?? I've rehearsed myself being there and of which weapon I would most likely want to be killed with if I were to be killed!!! And I have concluded that I would not have wanted to be killed with a spear---I mean, can you imagine that spear makin' its charge through your mid-section?? I've got this strange funny feelin' that there were "many-a'" good Israelite soldier die at the point of Goliath's spear---simply because they refused to "die to self" first!! But DAVID!!!!! Spiritually now---you know what he was on that battlefield as he was approaching Goliath??? He was a "Dead Man--Walking!!" He had done died to self and his life was hidden in Christ Jesus his Lord!!! He couldn't fail because Christ had done promised not to fail him!!! David "died" to self---before Goliath even felt the stone's penetration in his cold, hard "knoggin'!" If we would die to self like David did---We'd win more battles against the Goliath's of this world---If we would die to self--we'd spend more time fighting the enemy then we do fighting each other!!

Five Stones?? Murph---you still there??? You still looking for an answer???

Five is the Bible number for POWER!!! David came against Goliath in the name of the Lord of Hosts and in the power of His might!!!!

Brother David

 

[LadyEagle]

Preach it, Blackbird, preach it, Brother!

Gotta come down to Mississippi some time & hear you preach!

I Samuel 17:[42] And when the Philistine looked about, and saw David, he disdained him: for he was but a youth, and ruddy, and of a fair countenance.
[43] And the Philistine said unto David, Am I a dog, that thou comest to me with staves? And the Philistine cursed David by his gods.
[44] And the Philistine said to David, Come to me, and I will give thy flesh unto the fowls of the air, and to the beasts of the field.
[45] Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied.
[46] This day will the LORD deliver thee into mine hand; and I will smite thee, and take thine head from thee; and I will give the carcases of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel.
[47] And all this assembly shall know that the LORD saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the LORD's, and he will give you into our hand.

What a shot in the arm!

Hallelujah! PTL! Yippee!

Oh, Christian, are you discouraged - The Battle is the Lord's!

 

[georgeS]

Well, this is my first post, so it will be right in the middle of the fire. The 5 stones means nothing. Why are we assigning code and numerology or something to Gods word? David could have just as well picked up one stone and "maybe" completed the job. If you go out with the goal of winning 2 people to Christ, do you just take 2 tracks with you? No, David knew he had a job to do and he equipped himself to do the job. It was not a lack of faith on his part.

 

[Precepts]

The Bible has spiritual teachings. They are made from teh text as given by God. They are not made with man's imagination. When you start down this "spiritual meaning" hidden in words you have left the biblical doctrine of Scripture and asserted that your mind is the authority. As Baptists, we believe in biblical authority. Our authority comes from teh text and what it says. We should refuse extra biblical speculation. Since God has not told us that "five" means anything other than "five," we should stick with that.

O.K. I see now, David slew the giant and it has absolutely no spiritual application and isn't worth preaching except, by your standard, on the Sovereignty of God. The account has nothing to do with grace, there was nothing to even allude to being more than overcomers in Christ, has absolutely nothing to hint towards faith, etc, etc. The double etc. is because the Word of God is alive and not limited to your dead theology. I also suppose you can't preach a Gospel message from this text as well. Probably the most "famous" titles I've heard, "How To Get AHead" was just the wasted efforts concocted in the imagination of a man, and everyone who has been helped by the preaching of the message is deceived and should go back to being defeated all the time because they too were as Eliab at one time. I borrow a phrase from a fellow laborer, "That dog won't hunt". If tyou want to remain limited by your theology that's your business, but maybe you should learn a little application of the interpetation to enlarge your coasts. Jabez prayed that prayer and God honoured his request, He just might yours too.

 

[Precepts]

Five Stones?? Murph---you still there??? You still looking for an answer???

Five is the Bible number for POWER!!! David came against Goliath in the name of the Lord of Hosts and in the power of His might!!!!

Brother David

I say A-men! Wonder if grace has anything to with God's power?

I mean if I'm saved by grace through faith, isn't that God's "power"? Isn't the preaching of the Cross the "power" of God and where grace established it's control over sin by the Blood of Jesus? I mean, where sin abounded, grace doth much more abound? When ruddy David put on Saul's armour it hadn't been tried, but the very "power" given to David, I just wonder, did grace have anything to do withit? Hmmm? Grace? Power? I wonder if there's a connection? Hmmm?

Those "five" stones, where did they come from? The brook, wonder how they got "smooth", reckon "washing of water by the word" had anything to do with the smoothing of those stones? I "IMAGINE" it did!

Can't understand when you expound on grace so evident in the passage of I Sam 17 that some would dare to deny it's presence, it's power, it's penetrating into "things" like a giants forehead. When I am told not to use my imagination and yet the scripture expressly says to set my affections on things above and not on the things of the earth, and eye hath not seen, nor ear heard or even entered into the heart of man the things that God has prepared for him that love Him and await His coming, has nothing, nothing to do with these 5 stones, no, nothing to do with grace. Hmmm?

SLAP! Excuse me, I almost imagined a street of gold and a crystal sea, walls of jasper and sardine stone, beryl and sardonyx, gates of pearl and a throne that shone round about with 24 elders bowed before it and the singing of the Redeemed! And Him who sat on that throne, Wow! what a face that outshines the sun! SLAP! Shame on you imagination for even thinking about such a thing! Hmmmm? 5 stones?