7th Day Sabbath

[Jason1]

It is true that the earliest Christians, who were Jews, worshipped at the Temple on the sabbath as was the custom of the Jews. And it is true that the Christians who were not Jews did not observe the sabbath in this manner. And it is true that the Christians gathered on Sunday.

The issue, however, is that there is no evidence those Christians who did observe the Sabbath (the Jewish Christians) did so as a religious rather than a national observation. Paul went to the synagogue, as was his custom, not out of a commanded observance but to witness to the Jews who would be attending the synagogue.

You're right in that Paul went to the synagogue because that is where everybody would be meeting on their day off. It is not true that Paul would have been a sabbath breaker. Paul said this:

Rom_3:31 Do we then nullify the Torah through the belief? Let it not be! On the contrary, we establish the Torah.

 

[JonC]

You're right in that Paul went to the synagogue because that is where everybody would be meeting on their day off. It is not true that Paul would have been a sabbath breaker. Paul said this:

Rom_3:31 Do we then nullify the Torah through the belief? Let it not be! On the contrary, we establish the Torah.

Exactly - we ESTABLISH Torah. Why do you think Paul says they "established" Torah (placing the Law as having it's basis in Christ) rather than "obeyed" (placing themselves under the Law)?

 

[HankD]

The weekly sabbath is 1 day a week. The other six we are to work (not let people take care of us as men). Religious people sure can get lazy.

Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your heart.

Before it's too late.

HankD

 

[HankD]

You're right in that Paul went to the synagogue because that is where everybody would be meeting on their day off. It is not true that Paul would have been a sabbath breaker. Paul said this:

Rom_3:31 Do we then nullify the Torah through the belief? Let it not be! On the contrary, we establish the Torah.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

HankD

 

[Jason1]

Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your heart.

Before it's too late.

HankD

Hank, why cant you see this:

His Voice = His Word = His Torah = His Messiah

They are all one. Your galation passage is talking about oral law which is not of faith. Written law is of faith because those that do it believe in the One who gave it.

And if you keep going with your next verse, it says we are saved "unto good works"

 

[HankD]

Hank, why cant you see this:

His Voice = His Word = His Torah = His Messiah

They are all one. Your galation passage is talking about oral law which is not of faith. Written law is of faith because those that do it believe in the One who gave it.

And if you keep going with your next verse, it says we are saved "unto good works"

Of course good works follow the second birth. They are evidence that one has been born again.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

HankD

 

[Jason1]

Mat_19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

[MennoSota]

Hank, why cant you see this:

His Voice = His Word = His Torah = His Messiah

They are all one. Your galation passage is talking about oral law which is not of faith. Written law is of faith because those that do it believe in the One who gave it.

And if you keep going with your next verse, it says we are saved "unto good works"

Pretzel much, Jason?

You have now established that you, personally, are the one who gets to pick and choose which laws apply and which ones don't. You are the exact representation of a Judaiser.

 

[HankD]

Mat_19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

And he couldn't. The Law can only condemn as his failure to comply demonstrated..

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

HankD

 

[Darrell C]

No, they aren't jewish laws, they are YHVH's commandments

The "Law" you often quote is in fact a Covenant made specifically with Israel, not the world. And you are, if you are going to seek to turn men back to the Law, provide the example that men can keep the Law, and do so yourself.

And you know you can't, by your own admission. You cannot offer up sacrifice as the Law demands.

You can't avoid adding and taking away from God's Word, and you do so on a regular basis.

You stand in direct defiance of what God has told you, and speak about "keeping the Torah?"

Jason, listen to what God is trying to tell you.

Conversion is being washed by the word (torah) after redemption (buying back) by the blood of Yeshua.

You have it reversed, actually, God enlightens the natural mind in the process of conviction taught about by Christ in John 16:7-9. It is then you understand the Word of God and the truth of your condition. Then, if you do not reject that truth (as the many do), you are born again.

And we should not overlook the Resurrection of the Lord and its importance to Regeneration:



1 Peter 1
King James Version (KJV)

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


The question is, how can a man that adds and takes away from the Word of God, exchanging words at his whim...be born again?

And it is only those who are born again that have the Promised Spirit by which we can walk in His statutes and keep His commandments (Ezekiel 36:27).


Now, I know you won't answer this question, but I raise it again in the hopes the other members would press you on this:

Secondly, could you explain, if you did have a place where "God placed His Name," why you would offer up sacrifice?

God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

It is true that the earliest Christians, who were Jews, worshipped at the Temple on the sabbath as was the custom of the Jews. And it is true that the Christians who were not Jews did not observe the sabbath in this manner. And it is true that the Christians gathered on Sunday.

The issue, however, is that there is no evidence those Christians who did observe the Sabbath (the Jewish Christians) did so as a religious rather than a national observation. Paul went to the synagogue, as was his custom, not out of a commanded observance but to witness to the Jews who would be attending the synagogue.

Yes, as the early Christians were still see themselves as almost like modern messianic jews, so they still observed theTemple/Sabbath, but after clean break with Judaism, especially in ministry of Paul, Sunday now worship day for the church!

 

[Yeshua1]

No, I am not jewish nor wish to be.
No, they aren't jewish laws, they are YHVH's commandments
Conversion is being washed by the word (torah) after redemption (buying back) by the blood of Yeshua.

Given to israel under Old Covenant, NOT reinstated to us under the New One!

 

[Adonia]

No, I am not jewish nor wish to be.
No, they aren't jewish laws, they are YHVH's commandments
Conversion is being washed by the word (torah) after redemption (buying back) by the blood of Yeshua.

As you say. Take it from me though, it's much easier to be a Christian than having to follow all those old laws. Jesus freed us from them and that is a fact!

 

[Yeshua1]

Mat_19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Please answer, as you never have yet, do you see Jesus as being God?

 

[JonC]

Yes, as the early Christians were still see themselves as almost like modern messianic jews, so they still observed theTemple/Sabbath, but after clean break with Judaism, especially in ministry of Paul, Sunday now worship day for the church!

The early church was composed of messianic Jews,but with the introduction of gentiles this changed.

 

[Revmitchell]

You're right in that Paul went to the synagogue because that is where everybody would be meeting on their day off. It is not true that Paul would have been a sabbath breaker. Paul said this:

Rom_3:31 Do we then nullify the Torah through the belief? Let it not be! On the contrary, we establish the Torah.

You have misused that verse by ripping it out of its context. Further,

Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
Col 2:14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
Col 2:15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.

Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

You have misused that verse by ripping it out of its context. Further,

Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
Col 2:14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
Col 2:15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.

Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

Paul told us in that book that we are now free to worship any day as the Sabbath day of God!

 

[Yeshua1]

The early church was composed of messianic Jews,but with the introduction of gentiles this changed.

Especially when the Lord gave to paul His revelations concerning the gentiles!

 

[Jason1]

Given to israel under Old Covenant, NOT reinstated to us under the New One!

State the terms of the new covenant please.

 

[Jason1]

As you say. Take it from me though, it's much easier to be a Christian than having to follow all those old laws. Jesus freed us from them and that is a fact!

No, that is not a fact.

He freed us from the penalty of them by taking it upon himself. If you continue in sin thereafter, you trample upon his blood.

Christians actually do most of the law in general, they mainly don't keep the sabbath and they eat all sorts of unclean things.