Sam_the_Brave
Member
A church member I know said that he had overcome his sin - I pointed him to the verse above, and he said it applied to non-believers only. Is he right?
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A Bible verse on which I would like some guidance
- Thread starter Sam_the_Brave
- Start date
A church member I know said that he had overcome his sin - I pointed him to the verse above, and he said it applied to non-believers only. Is he right?
He is wrong. The clue is in the word 'we.'
Sam_the_Brave
Member
Yes, I take your point. He is a self-righteous kind of guy. Maybe I shouldn't listen too closely to him.
So Sam is sin an action or a condition?... The action doesn't cause the condition, the condition causes the action!... I think David said it the best!... Brother Glen
Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
We ALL come into the world the same way!
By stating that and believing its truth, he is still sinning!
No, he is wrong. John is writing to believers, so we cannot remove believers from the equation and insert unbelievers.
This reminds me of a friend who was talking to someone who believed she had reached a state of sinlessness. He mentioned the struggles of Paul the apostle, and referred her to Romans 7:22-24.
This reminds me of a friend who was talking to someone who believed she had reached a state of sinlessness. He mentioned the struggles of Paul the apostle, and referred her to Romans 7:22-24.
Unimpressed, she told him that was Paul’s problem and not hers!
And he meant all sin in general, not some specific sin that had impacted his life?
He is wrong.
Also!
What about he Lord’s Prayer in Matthew?
Jesus says “give us this day our daily bread” which means daily prayer
AND
“Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us”
they are hooked together
why do we ask for pardon if we do not sin?
The teachings on here are correct in regards to the teachings on I John
What about he Lord’s Prayer in Matthew?
Jesus says “give us this day our daily bread” which means daily prayer
AND
“Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us”
they are hooked together
why do we ask for pardon if we do not sin?
The teachings on here are correct in regards to the teachings on I John
John says two very different things, and it takes some thoughtful analysis to fit them together rather than ignore one and embrace the other.
In 1 John 1:8 (which you presented in the OP) says we (believers) are not without sin. How would we know? By evaluating ourselves against the standard of scripture and Christ. Do we still fall short? Yes, of course.
But John also says
1John 3:9
No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
So since we are justified for our sins, past, present, and future (Christ dying once for all sin) we cannot sin in that we cannot store up wrath for our misbehavior. From God's perspective, as a born anew believer, washed by the blood of the Lamb, we are sinless, yet from our own perspective we know we think and do things not according to God's will. So, because of our own awareness, we are to strive to become more like Christ, walking the talk and evaluating our performance every day.
I once knew a man who was an Elder at our church, and he sure seemed like a saint to me. I asked him about it, and he smiled and said, Van, God never tires of revealing our faults, so even though we might have walked quite a ways along the path to spiritual maturity, we are always keenly aware, we have a ways to go.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
1) He overcame it?
See Romans 7:14-25 and Galatians 5:17.
" For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." ( Galatians 5:17 )
With the inherent problems that all born again people have, I doubt that he did.
I also doubt that he understands Who it is that overcomes the flesh ( Romans 8:12-13, Galatians 5:16 ).
Based on what I see in God's word, we don't do it, and neither can we.
If it happens, He does it.
2) Here's what I see when I read the verse:
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." ( 1 John 1:8 ).
Here it is in the Greek:
https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/1jo1.pdf
1 John 1:8 Greek biblehub
I see the Scriptures teaching that it is not us that overcomes the flesh and its tendency to sin,
but rather the Holy Spirit who indwells us...giving us power over it and the growth of true spiritual fruit ( Galatians 5:22-23 ).
I also do not believe that Christians can be completely sinless until we see the Lord.
3) Lastly,
The book of 1 John is written to professing believers and applies to all professing believers.
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Sam_the_Brave
Member
Well, he actually said, and I quote "I haven't sinned this morning". Then he told me the John 1:8 passage only applied to unbelievers.
Thank you all for clearing this up for me.
Thank you all for clearing this up for me.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
That reminds me of the MORNING PRAYER:
Dear Lord,
So far I've done all right.
I haven't gossipped,
haven't lost my temper,
haven't been greedy, grumpy, nasty, selfish, or overindulgent.
I'm really glad about that.
But in a few minutes, God,
I'm going to get out of bed.
And from then on,
I'm going to need a lot more help.
So far I've done all right.
I haven't gossipped,
haven't lost my temper,
haven't been greedy, grumpy, nasty, selfish, or overindulgent.
I'm really glad about that.
But in a few minutes, God,
I'm going to get out of bed.
And from then on,
I'm going to need a lot more help.
Sam_the_Brave
Member
Yeah, that's a funny and insightful poem, but seriously, this guy told me he hadn't sinned that morning...
atpollard
Well-Known Member
... and some people think they are Napoleon. It's best not to waste too much time arguing with them about it.
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
Perhaps he hadn't knowingly sinned. We all have blind spots, however. There's a very good reason they're called blind spots.
I remember a pastor some thirty years or so back who claimed he had never sinned since he was saved in 1956. He loved to repeat that in the pulpit often.
When confronted with scriptures refuting that position, he then claimed he never had sinned wilfully or knowingly, but he was certain otherwise that he had not sinned since salvation.
Then he was asked, what about the sin of pride?
When confronted with scriptures refuting that position, he then claimed he never had sinned wilfully or knowingly, but he was certain otherwise that he had not sinned since salvation.
Then he was asked, what about the sin of pride?
37818
Well-Known Member
My take on 1 John 1:8 (also 1 John 1:10) is the need for the daily or as needed cleansing which God provides for those whom He has aleady saved. The promise to us who are saved being found right there in 1 John 1:9, ". . . If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. . . ." This is something we need from God which we cannot do for our selves.
Is he talking about a sin or all sin?