A bit more about "parousia"

[John of Japan]

Yes, but that was a major mistake you made. And you abused the point to bash pretetism. Are you sure you know your way around the Greek?

Oh, now I see. A "major mistake" nullifies all else that is said about a position. So a "major mistake" proves a position is wrong. NOW I understand.

Excuse me while I go out and berate all of my mentors and teachers, and sadly excoriate the memory of my parents and grandparents for believing in the premillennial rapture and 2nd Coming in glory of Jesus Christ. How could they have been so wrong! I have made a "major mistake" and now know that my position is as wrong as can be.

(Heavy sarcasm alert!)

 

[prophecy70]

I have my own set of sins in my past. No Christian should ever look down on anyone. We are all saved by the blood of Christ, and none of us are worthy of that.

Thank you John.

 

[John of Japan]

Thank you John.

Twice in Japan I saw drug addicts come to Christ, and once a yakuza gangster who led a drug pushing gang. (Not that you were an addict.) My buddy Togo San in Yokohama was a gentle soul who never could kick the habit. I saw how insidious and powerful drugs can be.

After we moved to Hokkaido, Togo San and I would have long phone conversations. I loved the guy. He died in his sleep in his 30's, and his girlfriend called me. I was able to lead her to Christ over the phone because Togo San had told her about Jesus.

 

[John of Japan]

By the way, Togo San got saved on a Saturday night after reading the Japanese translation of premil pretrib Hal Lindsay's book deep into the night, Satan Is Alive and Well on Planet Earth. What preterist books bring people to Christ? Anyone?

(Just sayin'.)

 

[agedman]

By the way, Togo San got saved on a Saturday night after reading the Japanese translation of premil pretrib Hal Lindsay's book deep into the night, Satan Is Alive and Well on Planet Earth. What preterist books bring people to Christ? Anyone?

(Just sayin'.)

Do they have books? .


What have such as preterists to offer in the manner of verifiable truth?

I thank my Father who had a good missionary ready to assist this believer (Tago San) and those two would be used to influence and guide other(s) to Him.

 

[prophecy70]

By the way, Togo San got saved on a Saturday night after reading the Japanese translation of premil pretrib Hal Lindsay's book deep into the night, Satan Is Alive and Well on Planet Earth. What preterist books bring people to Christ? Anyone?

(Just sayin'.)

No one is claiming they cant bring someone to Christ.

Do you think a Joel Osteen book could bring someone to Christ?
Honest opinion.

 

[agedman]

No one is claiming they cant bring someone to Christ.

Do you think a Joel Osteen book could bring someone to Christ?
Honest opinion.

God’s Word never is void of affect to effect change.

That change maybe to harden or to soften.

For example: the same son will soften a bar of chocolate and harden clay.

Therefore, as Olsteen writes the scripture in his book, that Scripture can be used as God desires.

 

[TCassidy]

God’s Word never is void of affect to effect change.

That change maybe to harden or to soften.

I think I may be a prophet. I prophesy that Rippon will be along shortly.

 

[prophecy70]

What have such as preterists to offer in the manner of verifiable truth?

So preterist books don't use scripture?

 

[agedman]

So preterist books don't use scripture?

Wasn't the question.

Just as Olsteen, what do preterest offer in the way of verifiable truth?

Just as Olsteen, if there is Scripture used in a preterest book, "God’s Word never is void of affect to effect change."

AS far as books, the question was asked by another poster:
"What preterist books bring people to Christ? Anyone?"

 

[asterisktom]

Wasn't the question.

Just as Olsteen, what do preterest offer in the way of verifiable truth?

Just as Olsteen, if there is Scripture used in a preterest book, "God’s Word never is void of affect to effect change."

AS far as books, the question was asked by another poster:
"What preterist books bring people to Christ? Anyone?"

This is silly. I could also ask what Baptist church manual, what systematic theology text, or what forum discussion here ever brought anyone to Christ? Apples and oranges. The items above in most cases build upon faith in Christ. The fact that they are not necessarily evangelistic does not mean they are bad.

For the record, I was saved shortly after reading David Wilkerson's "The Vision". I had come to disbelieve much of his theology.

 

[agedman]

This is silly. I could also ask what Baptist church manual, what systematic theology text, or what forum discussion here ever brought anyone to Christ? Apples and oranges. The items above in most cases build upon faith in Christ. The fact that they are not necessarily evangelistic does not mean they are bad.

For the record, I was saved shortly after reading David Wilkerson's "The Vision". I had come to disbelieve much of his theology.

Not "silly" at all.

Relating that a man, who many on the BB have held to the point of ridicule, influenced a person to Christ, and by your own testimony another who in your view held questionable doctrine influenced you to Christ, then question is actually quite legitimate.

He ask a legitimate question.
"What preterist books bring people to Christ? Anyone?"
.

 

[John of Japan]

No one is claiming they cant bring someone to Christ.

I'm just curious. The doctrine of the 2nd Coming of Christ inspires me to live for Him in light of the Judgement Seat of Christ, the Bema as it is sometimes called. Our church just finished 3 performances of "A Christmas Carol" (my son and I were the charity solicitors). The seats were packed all 3 times, and as many as 50-60 trusted Christ as Savior at the invitations.

I don't see preterism, especially full preterism, inspiring anyone to work for Christ. Look at the preterist websites (https://www.preteristarchive.com/, PreteristCentral, etc.), and tell me where they even have a Gospel presentation. Those websites are all about prophecy, but not that much about serving Christ and bringing folks to Him. And if Christ already came and is not coming back, there is no Judgment Seat of Christ, so a Christian can "eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die."

Do you think a Joel Osteen book could bring someone to Christ?
Honest opinion.

Honest opinion? No, I don't think a Joel Osteen book could bring anyone to Christ. I've heard him preach. He gives an extremely weak invitation after a message with no Gospel (1 Cor. 15:1-8) in it at all.

 

[asterisktom]

Not "silly" at all.

Relating that a man, who many on the BB have held to the point of ridicule, influenced a person to Christ, and by your own testimony another who in your view held questionable doctrine influenced you to Christ, then question is actually quite legitimate.

He ask a legitimate question.
"What preterist books bring people to Christ? Anyone?"
.

I answered that in the middle of my response - the part you ignored.

Whether or not a book brings someone to faith in Christ should not be the only yardstick of its worth. This shouldn't even have to be mentioned.

 

[asterisktom]

I don't see preterism, especially full preterism, inspiring anyone to work for Christ. Look at the preterist websites (https://www.preteristarchive.com/, PreteristCentral, etc.), and tell me where they even have a Gospel presentation. Those websites are all about prophecy, but not that much about serving Christ and bringing folks to Him. And if Christ already came and is not coming back, there is no Judgment Seat of Christ, so a Christian can "eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die."

Pretty clueless about Preterism then if this is truly what you believe about us. I would not recognize my faith in your gross mischaracterization above.

 

[agedman]

Pretty clueless about Preterism then if this is truly what you believe about us. I would not recognize my faith in your gross mischaracterization above.

What hope of return is found if one has returned?

However, when no anecdotal evidence of a return already past is not even suggested or considered by ECF, then such a return cannot have happened.

Why aspire for what Is no longer promised?

Is this why the sites have no offer of redemption?

Is it all reflective of their view that the promises of God are not still viable?

 

[John of Japan]

Pretty clueless about Preterism then if this is truly what you believe about us. I would not recognize my faith in your gross mischaracterization above.

Then enlighten me. Who has been lead to be an evangelist through full preterism? Who do you know who has been saved through the preterist message? Who have you personally lead to Christ by telling them, "Christ came already. All things on earth will proceed as they are, and Christ will never come back again."

I am inspired and encouraged to work for Christ because of the Judgment Seat of Christ. What preterist doctrine does the same for you?

Premil D. L. Moody: a million souls saved
Premil Billy Sunday: a million souls saved
Premil Charles Cowan: the greatest missionary Japan ever saw
Premil John R. Rice: 200,000 saved; 200 books; SBC conservative resurgence seeds planted

I could go on and on. The premil doctrine inspires us to work for Christ, since He may come at any time. The full preterist doctrine does no such thing.

 

[John of Japan]

According to the Wikipedia article (not a reliable source, to be sure) on James Stuart Russell (the author of Parousia), he brought revival to his church after witnessing the Irish revival which took place in 1859. "On his return a similar awakening occurred in his own church." He did not write Parousia until 1878, so obviously preterism was not an influence in that revival.

In fact, the Irish revival of 1859 laid the foundation for future fundamentalism in N. Ireland in the person of Ian Paisley, the great Irish Presbyterian fundamentalist. (I've heard him preach.) The denomination he founded believes in "The visible and personal return of our Lord Jesus Christ." (Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster – What We Believe). Paisley is a great preacher, and a note on the back of a book he wrote in 1970 says that his church had "the largest Sunday congregation in Great Britain."

So now, what revival has a full preterist ever inspired, started, or prayed down? What soul winning movement? What church-planting movement? This is not an idle question. "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them" (Matt. 7:20).

 

[John of Japan]

I can't help it, I have to post one more time about the future 2nd Coming. During WW2, do you know why hundreds of Japanese pastors were imprisoned? (I knew the children of two of them.) It was because they believed in the 2nd Coming of Christ. The Kenpeitai (greatly feared secret police) would ask, "Do you believe in the 2nd Coming, and that Jesus Christ will then rule over the Emperor of Japan?" If the answer was "Yes," they went to prison and possible death.

You see, the 2nd Coming gives us a great motive to stand up for Jesus Christ. From a dispensationalist perspective, the premillennial return of Christ glorifies God. It is glorious that He will someday rule the earth for 1000 years, proving Him and His rule to be perfect and infinitely better than any sinful human ruler or rule.

 

[asterisktom]

What hope of return is found if one has returned?

However, when no anecdotal evidence of a return already past is not even suggested or considered by ECF, then such a return cannot have happened.

Why aspire for what Is no longer promised?

Is this why the sites have no offer of redemption?

Is it all reflective of their view that the promises of God are not still viable?

Rather than reply to this I suggest you just reread what I wrote to John. My reply is the same.