Dr. Walter
New Member
I didn't pass anything up. There was just nothing there worth commenting on.
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A close look at Rom 11 !
- Thread starter savedbymercy
- Start date
I didn't pass anything up. There was just nothing there worth commenting on.
savedbymercy
New Member
Rom 11:19-20
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
Paul here warns the gentiles of becoming high minded about their position in Covenant Israel, for it was only because of God given Faith in Christ that they were so grafted in with those ethnic jews who likewise had Faith God given Faith.
This portion of scripture if properly understood, gives us to understand that belief in or Faith in Christ is not a natural thing, but it is supernaturally given by the power of God. 1 Pet 1:5
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Phil 1:29
29For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Its not a matter of free choice or freewill to believe in Christ, but it is a matter of free grace, Sovereign grace as to who has Faith unto salvation.
Eph 2:8-10
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
Paul here warns the gentiles of becoming high minded about their position in Covenant Israel, for it was only because of God given Faith in Christ that they were so grafted in with those ethnic jews who likewise had Faith God given Faith.
This portion of scripture if properly understood, gives us to understand that belief in or Faith in Christ is not a natural thing, but it is supernaturally given by the power of God. 1 Pet 1:5
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Phil 1:29
29For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Its not a matter of free choice or freewill to believe in Christ, but it is a matter of free grace, Sovereign grace as to who has Faith unto salvation.
Eph 2:8-10
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
savedbymercy
New Member
I would like to go back to a point in Rom 11:19-20
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Well because of unbelief they were broken off, that is, the natural branches that belonged to Covenant Israel, Now even though unbelief is reprehensible, it nevertheless is determined solely by the Sovereignty of God, that is what determines who shall believe God and His word, and who shall not believe.
Because of the Fall, when satan was able to deceive eve into unbelief of what God had said, God said, if thou eat, thou shalt surely die, and satan said, thou shalt not surely die [Gen 3:3-4], because of this man was judged by God as a unbeliever, we were concluded or consigned under unbelief..
Rom 11:32
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
The word concluded in the greek means:
to shut up together, enclose
of a shoal of fishes in a net
to shut up on all sides, shut up completely
We are by nature shut up in unbelief, completely enclosed by it. God has hopelessly shut up all into unbelief or disobedience, by nature.
Now why does man think he has a freewill choice to reverse this and become obedient or a believer in Christ ? Proud man believes he can undo what God has done ! but lets look at Ecclesiastes 7:13
13Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked?
Rev 3:7
7And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
It has to be given [ not offered] from heaven to believe on Christ and or the the things of God; it is not something that comes naturally! see 1 Cor 2:14 & Phil 1:29
Paul tells the gentiles, be not high minded, but rather fear, because ye stand by Faith, and Faith is not our own. This verse if properly understood, should give us to know that Faith is not of man, or why would Paul make such a statement as this ? It is because standing by Faith is nothing less than standing by the power of God 1 Pet 1:5, for faith in us is maintained by God's Power. Remember when Jesus told Peter Lk 22:32
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
I infer from this that Jesus prayed for Peter's faith to be kept by the power of God, which incident peter probably had in mind when He penned 1 Pet 1:5. Faith is God given and God sustained. Notice Rom 14:4
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
For clearly, its God who causes one by His power to stand by Faith; so the gentiles must not boast against the jews who have been broken off, if so, then we are actually by implication saying that we are the ones responsible for our being grafted in, and not the root that bore us, which is Christ; It is because of our election in Christ, our Head, that He communicates to us His life, and His Faith, that is the faith of the Son of God Gal 2:20
20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Well because of unbelief they were broken off, that is, the natural branches that belonged to Covenant Israel, Now even though unbelief is reprehensible, it nevertheless is determined solely by the Sovereignty of God, that is what determines who shall believe God and His word, and who shall not believe.
Because of the Fall, when satan was able to deceive eve into unbelief of what God had said, God said, if thou eat, thou shalt surely die, and satan said, thou shalt not surely die [Gen 3:3-4], because of this man was judged by God as a unbeliever, we were concluded or consigned under unbelief..
Rom 11:32
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
The word concluded in the greek means:
to shut up together, enclose
of a shoal of fishes in a net
to shut up on all sides, shut up completely
We are by nature shut up in unbelief, completely enclosed by it. God has hopelessly shut up all into unbelief or disobedience, by nature.
Now why does man think he has a freewill choice to reverse this and become obedient or a believer in Christ ? Proud man believes he can undo what God has done ! but lets look at Ecclesiastes 7:13
13Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked?
Rev 3:7
7And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
It has to be given [ not offered] from heaven to believe on Christ and or the the things of God; it is not something that comes naturally! see 1 Cor 2:14 & Phil 1:29
Paul tells the gentiles, be not high minded, but rather fear, because ye stand by Faith, and Faith is not our own. This verse if properly understood, should give us to know that Faith is not of man, or why would Paul make such a statement as this ? It is because standing by Faith is nothing less than standing by the power of God 1 Pet 1:5, for faith in us is maintained by God's Power. Remember when Jesus told Peter Lk 22:32
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
I infer from this that Jesus prayed for Peter's faith to be kept by the power of God, which incident peter probably had in mind when He penned 1 Pet 1:5. Faith is God given and God sustained. Notice Rom 14:4
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
For clearly, its God who causes one by His power to stand by Faith; so the gentiles must not boast against the jews who have been broken off, if so, then we are actually by implication saying that we are the ones responsible for our being grafted in, and not the root that bore us, which is Christ; It is because of our election in Christ, our Head, that He communicates to us His life, and His Faith, that is the faith of the Son of God Gal 2:20
20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
savedbymercy
New Member
Rom 11:21
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Paul was warning the gentiles, the new corporate Representative of the Covenant Israel [ see Matt 21:43], this privilege was taken from National Israel permanently, and given to the Gentile Church;
But the gentiles must not become highminded, because this privilege to them is solely by Sovereign Grace, and not of their own doing.
The ethnic jews were the natural branches, in that God established a National Covenant with them [ Ex 20-24] also see Heb 9:16-20.
This National Covenant was temporal[by design] external, and conditional on National obedience, and served only as shadow or type of the Everlasting Covenant secured by the blood of the Great Shepherd, a Covenant confirmed before in Christ Gal 3:17.
For it was the Everlasting Covenant with Christ, that formed the basis of the Gospel being preached to Abraham in Gen 12:3-4 ; Gal 3:8
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Paul was warning the gentiles, the new corporate Representative of the Covenant Israel [ see Matt 21:43], this privilege was taken from National Israel permanently, and given to the Gentile Church;
But the gentiles must not become highminded, because this privilege to them is solely by Sovereign Grace, and not of their own doing.
The ethnic jews were the natural branches, in that God established a National Covenant with them [ Ex 20-24] also see Heb 9:16-20.
This National Covenant was temporal[by design] external, and conditional on National obedience, and served only as shadow or type of the Everlasting Covenant secured by the blood of the Great Shepherd, a Covenant confirmed before in Christ Gal 3:17.
For it was the Everlasting Covenant with Christ, that formed the basis of the Gospel being preached to Abraham in Gen 12:3-4 ; Gal 3:8
Dr. Walter
New Member
this privilege was taken from National Israel permanently, and given to the Gentile Church
This is demonic lie straight from the pits of hell! Even the following context explicitly entertains the prospect of reversal IF they continue not in unbelief:
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
You are teaching outright lies straight from hell. You are intentionally perverting God's Word and playing the role of a demon in doing the bidding of Satan. You will stand in judgement for your lies.
Not only is God able to graft them in "AGAIN" but He will do so according to His covenant promise to the NATION of Israel (vv. 25-28) which promise is irreversable (v. 29) according to election (v. 28) which is unto salvation at the precise moment in time God has forordained which is no sooner and no later than the precise time of His Second Advent in verses 27-28.
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savedbymercy
New Member
Rom 11:21 cont
The Promise God gave to Abraham, " In you shall all nations be blessed" was the gospel [a pure unconditional promise of grace to Abraham], this gospel promise was proclaimed to Abraham not only before the death of Christ, but before also the giving of the Law to Moses [which established National Israel as a Covenant People];
What God promised Abraham correlates with what God accomplished through Jesus Christ, which is God's fulfillment of His promises to Abraham, all the promises of God are yeah and amen by Christ 2 Cor 1:20.
All the promises to Abraham and His seed are fulfilled by Christ and believers in Him [ who belong to His body and are one with Him] of both jew and gentile, because Abraham was not the Father of just one nation, but of many Nations, and that is why His name became Abraham Gen 17:5
5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
This even takes precedence over the ethnic jews as Abraham being their Father by the Flesh.
The Promise God gave to Abraham, " In you shall all nations be blessed" was the gospel [a pure unconditional promise of grace to Abraham], this gospel promise was proclaimed to Abraham not only before the death of Christ, but before also the giving of the Law to Moses [which established National Israel as a Covenant People];
What God promised Abraham correlates with what God accomplished through Jesus Christ, which is God's fulfillment of His promises to Abraham, all the promises of God are yeah and amen by Christ 2 Cor 1:20.
All the promises to Abraham and His seed are fulfilled by Christ and believers in Him [ who belong to His body and are one with Him] of both jew and gentile, because Abraham was not the Father of just one nation, but of many Nations, and that is why His name became Abraham Gen 17:5
5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
This even takes precedence over the ethnic jews as Abraham being their Father by the Flesh.
Dr. Walter
New Member
All the promises to Abraham and His seed are fulfilled by Christ and believers in Him [ who belong to His body and are one with Him] of both jew and gentile, because Abraham was not the Father of just one nation, but of many Nations, and that is why His name became Abraham [URL="http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Gen%2017.5"]Gen 17:5
5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
This even takes precedence over the ethnic jews as Abraham being their Father by the Flesh.
Abraham is not the "Father" of gentile nations "being their Father by the flesh" but rather this is a relationship by example through faith.
He is not the physical father of the Negroid race and they have many nations. He is not the physical father of the Caucasion race and they have many nations. You are confusing Adam or Noah with Abraham. You simply do not know what you are talking about and you certainly have little to no understanding of Romans 9-11.
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Dr. Walter
New Member
One thing is crystal clear. You are not interested in the truth. You are simply interested in spewing out what you think you know. It is obvious because you can't answer the objections to your eisgetical remarks and you don't attempt to respond. It is obvious that truth is not your goal, just pride married to ignorance.
savedbymercy
New Member
dw
Gen 17:5
5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
Abraham is not the "Father" of gentile nations "being their Father by the flesh" but rather this is a relationship by example through faith.
Gen 17:5
5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
Dr. Walter
New Member
dw
Gen 17:5
5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
Nobody is arguing about him being "the father" of many nations. The argument is about the meaning of "father" here!
The Bible uses the term "father" in a metaphorical sense having nothing to do with a physical literal relationship but likeness, example, source, role model:
For example:
Ge 4:21 And his brother’s name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
Job 17:14 I have said to corruption, Thou art my father: to the worm, Thou art my mother, and my sister.
Job 29:16 I was a father to the poor: and the cause which I knew not I searched out.
Job 38:28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?
Would Abraham be the PHYSICAL father of rocks?
Mt 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
The Jews had Abraham as their PHYSICAL father but Jesus denied that Abraham was their "father" in a metaphorical sense:
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Satan does not possess a PHYSICAL body but yet he is called their "father" when it is God that created Adam and all that are in Adam.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil,
Satan is called "the father" of lies and lies and neither Satan or lies have a physical body:
Jn 8:44 ....When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Abraham is not the PHYSICAL father of the negroid nations or the cacasion nations, etc. He is the source ROLE MODEL or EXAMPLE that God has chosen to be set forth for all who beleive in the gospel and who are justified by faith. He is no more the physical father of the Negroid race and nations as Jubal is the physical father of the Jerry Lee Lewis.
If this was the only interpretative error you made then a gentle correction would be called for. However, your whole exposition is flawed by such errors. You don't know what you are talking about because you consistently ignore contextual evidence that demonstrates you are perverting the Word of God.
Satan is called "the father" of lies
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savedbymercy
New Member
Dr. Walter
New Member
dw
Spiritual !
No! We have only one "spiritual" Father and it is not Abraham - It is God The Father.
Neither is Abraham our PHYSICAL father.
He is simply God's chosen ROLE MODEL and EXAMPLE to exemplify faith in the gospel, justification by faith (Rom. 4:12, 14; Gal. 3:6-8) and the Biblical example as far as SOURCE in the Old Testament as his life is the FIRST life that Genesis gives an extended account of.
savedbymercy
New Member
No! We have only one "spiritual" Father and it is not Abraham - It is God The Father.
Neither is Abraham our PHYSICAL father.
He is simply God's chosen ROLE MODEL and EXAMPLE to exemplify faith in the gospel, justification by faith (Rom. 4:12, 14; Gal. 3:6-8) and the Biblical example as far as SOURCE in the Old Testament as his life is the FIRST life that Genesis gives an extended account of.
Abraham was given a spiritual seed ! Gal 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
How are gentiles, belivers in Christ, Abraham's Seed but spiritually ? Gentiles are not His Physical Seed !
Abraham was promised and given a seed, a spiritual seed which would be believers like Himself.
Gen 17:
7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
This is talking about Abraham's Spiritual Seed, not his Physical seed. This seed was through the Eternal Everlasting Covenant of Grace.
Abraham's seed here also included the gentiles, that is why God said in vs 5
5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
Dr. Walter
New Member
Abraham was given a spiritual seed ! Gal 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
How are gentiles, belivers in Christ, Abraham's Seed but spiritually ? Gentiles are not His Physical Seed !
According to the way you think we would have FIVE spiritual models.
1. "ye be OF CHRIST" - one spiritual father
2. "born of the Spirit" - two spiritual father
3. God as Father - three spiritual father
4. Abraham - four spiritual father
5. Paul "I have begotten you" - five spiritual father.
Even your clouded and confused mind should be able to see clear enough that your application of "father" is rediculous.
What good would it be if I explained them one by one to you? None! So I won't waste my time.
savedbymercy
New Member
God promised Abraham a seed that would be born by His word of Promise as Isaac was, this seed would have Two Births, one in the flesh and one by the promised Spirit. This seed would always become believers in Christ, rather jews or gentiles. This seed are the Children of Promise. This seed would always be born of God ! This seed of Abraham's would not be confined and limited to His Natural Seed but was inclusive of peoples of every nation.
God promised Abraham this seed in Gen 17:2-8. In Gen 17:2
2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
This is God's promise to multiply Abraham exceedingly, with Children of promise, Children of Faith. God here is not speaking about Abraham's Physical seed here, though it would include some of them, but it also included some gentiles out of every other nation ! Every time a person becomes a True Believer in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit working in them , its an evidence of God keeping His Covenant Promise to Abraham in Gen 17:2..And thats why Abraham is said to be their Father because God gave them a life of Faith as He did Abraham their Father. Gal 3:9
So then they[jew or gentile] which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
God promised Abraham this seed in Gen 17:2-8. In Gen 17:2
2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
This is God's promise to multiply Abraham exceedingly, with Children of promise, Children of Faith. God here is not speaking about Abraham's Physical seed here, though it would include some of them, but it also included some gentiles out of every other nation ! Every time a person becomes a True Believer in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit working in them , its an evidence of God keeping His Covenant Promise to Abraham in Gen 17:2..And thats why Abraham is said to be their Father because God gave them a life of Faith as He did Abraham their Father. Gal 3:9
So then they[jew or gentile] which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Dr. Walter
New Member
Children of Faith.....So then they[jew or gentile] which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Good job! Finally you got this part right! The elect are "children OF FAITH" and it is in that sense Abraham is the Biblical SOURCE "father" as the ROLE MODEL of what that means as God The Father uses Abraham to illustrate this in Abraham, who himself is but a child of faith no more and no less than other child of faith. However, Abraham is the FIRST child of faith where the principle of justification of faith is illustrated and set forth in the Bible and that makes him the "father" of faith, just as Jubal is the "father of all" who play musical instruments.
savedbymercy
New Member
Rom 11:22
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Paul here brings to us a sobering reality, or at least it should, that God is Love to some, but to others [the rest] He is quite severe [ to cut off] and be vengeful. All those outside of elective Love, jew or gentile, and trample under foot, the Son of God, beware Heb 10:26-31
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Though this exact sin is not committed as Israel of old, its twin sister sin is being committed today by the religious and the profane world by rejecting the True Gospel of the Son of God and everyone believing a gospel of their own devising.
On those who fell [ in unbelief] God was severe, that is, on those who were not of the election Rom 11:7, God had no mercy on them, but they were vessels of wrath [ Rom 9:22];
But to the elect gentiles, Gods Mercy or Goodness has been shown, if they indeed continue in His good ness, else they to shall be cut off.
Note, perseverance in goodness or the Love of God is not a condition one must of themselves meet to partake of His saving Mercy, but rather perseverance is a evidence that one has partaken of Gods goodness and Love, even the sure mercies of David.
We are of Christ house if we evidence it by continuing to hold fast the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end, if not, then we really never were made partakers of Christ Heb 3:14
14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Because He is faithful over His own House [ which He builds] Heb 3:6
6But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
In OT times the house of God was the house of Israel Lev 22:18; Num 12:7 Heb 3:5; symbolized by the Tabernacle and Later the Temple, which were in Israels midst Ex 25:8 and Ezk 37:26; Now in NT times the house of God was represented by by the church, the local congregations [ see Rev 2-3] 1 Tim 3:15, for the children of Israel or Nation of Israel served as a type of the church in the NT [ 1 Cor 10:1-11] their history prefigured the church.
And Just as that wicked Nation was cut off, in the Last time the church because of apostasy will also be cut off..
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Paul here brings to us a sobering reality, or at least it should, that God is Love to some, but to others [the rest] He is quite severe [ to cut off] and be vengeful. All those outside of elective Love, jew or gentile, and trample under foot, the Son of God, beware Heb 10:26-31
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Though this exact sin is not committed as Israel of old, its twin sister sin is being committed today by the religious and the profane world by rejecting the True Gospel of the Son of God and everyone believing a gospel of their own devising.
On those who fell [ in unbelief] God was severe, that is, on those who were not of the election Rom 11:7, God had no mercy on them, but they were vessels of wrath [ Rom 9:22];
But to the elect gentiles, Gods Mercy or Goodness has been shown, if they indeed continue in His good ness, else they to shall be cut off.
Note, perseverance in goodness or the Love of God is not a condition one must of themselves meet to partake of His saving Mercy, but rather perseverance is a evidence that one has partaken of Gods goodness and Love, even the sure mercies of David.
We are of Christ house if we evidence it by continuing to hold fast the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end, if not, then we really never were made partakers of Christ Heb 3:14
14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Because He is faithful over His own House [ which He builds] Heb 3:6
6But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
In OT times the house of God was the house of Israel Lev 22:18; Num 12:7 Heb 3:5; symbolized by the Tabernacle and Later the Temple, which were in Israels midst Ex 25:8 and Ezk 37:26; Now in NT times the house of God was represented by by the church, the local congregations [ see Rev 2-3] 1 Tim 3:15, for the children of Israel or Nation of Israel served as a type of the church in the NT [ 1 Cor 10:1-11] their history prefigured the church.
And Just as that wicked Nation was cut off, in the Last time the church because of apostasy will also be cut off..
Dr. Walter
New Member
In OT times the house of God was the house of Israel Lev 22:18; Num 12:7 Heb 3:5; symbolized by the Tabernacle and Later the Temple, which were in Israels midst Ex 25:8 and Ezk 37:26; Now in NT times the house of God was represented by by the church, the local congregations [ see Rev 2-3] 1 Tim 3:15, for the children of Israel or Nation of Israel served as a type of the church in the NT [ 1 Cor 10:1-11] their history prefigured the church.
And Just as that wicked Nation was cut off, in the Last time the church because of apostasy will also be cut off..
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Well, I can agree with you on this for the most part. Few are able to see this truth concerning "the house of God" in both testaments.
savedbymercy
New Member
Rom 11:24
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
Paul here is again reemphasizing that just as the elect gentiles had been grafted into the Olive Tree [ The True Israel of God]
so also those ethnic jews who believe, will also be grafted into the True Israel of God.
National Israel's rejection and covenant privileges were not taken away because of their ethnicity, but because of her overall unbelief.
Also before that, Paul points out how even the gentiles had once been ignorant of God through Christ, and strangers to the covenant of promises,
and Just as God hath made a way to graft us into the Covenant Israel, he can also do the same for ethnic jews who may presently be in unbelief.
This is not a national thing however, but a individual thing,
just like the grafting in of the gentiles was not a national thing but individuals.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
Paul here is again reemphasizing that just as the elect gentiles had been grafted into the Olive Tree [ The True Israel of God]
so also those ethnic jews who believe, will also be grafted into the True Israel of God.
National Israel's rejection and covenant privileges were not taken away because of their ethnicity, but because of her overall unbelief.
Also before that, Paul points out how even the gentiles had once been ignorant of God through Christ, and strangers to the covenant of promises,
and Just as God hath made a way to graft us into the Covenant Israel, he can also do the same for ethnic jews who may presently be in unbelief.
This is not a national thing however, but a individual thing,
just like the grafting in of the gentiles was not a national thing but individuals.
Dr. Walter
New Member
Rom 11:24
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
Paul here is again reemphasizing that just as the elect gentiles had been grafted into the Olive Tree [ The True Israel of God]
so also those ethnic jews who believe, will also be grafted into the True Israel of God.
National Israel's rejection and covenant privileges were not taken away because of their ethnicity, but because of her overall unbelief.
Another absurd and rediculous attempt to interpret the scripture! You ignore the context, you ignore the grammar, you ignore nearest antecedents and then you add what the text does not say, does not mean just serve your own belly (desires).
The "natural branches" or "these" are the ones he just said were "broken off" that the Gentiles might be grafted in. Remant Israel has not been broken off so that the Gentiles might be grafted in! What has been broken off that the Gentiles might be grafted in is Israel as a ETHNIC NATION.
It is these same "natural branches" that is the subject of regrafting throughout this passage and not "remnant Israel."
This obvious and fundemental error skrews your whole interpretation of this chapter. ANYONE READING ROMANS 11 and READING YOUR COMMENTARY can easily see your who interpretational theory is nothing but pure eisgesis and the product of a seared conscience that can only recognize a HALF truth.