A close look at Rom 11 !

[Dr. Walter]

Unwise choice! When you have been exposed and condemned and too proud to repent then either you must shut up or just keep spouting falsehood as no other option is left for you.

Rom 11:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Which Covenant can be none other than the Everlasting / New Covenant; That promises forgiveness of sins, that they will be remembered no more Heb 8:12-13

12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Which Covenant that has been established by the blood of the New Testament Matt 26:28

28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The taking away of sins as in Rom 11:27 and the remission of sins as in Matt 26:28 are the same.

To take away sins , the word is aphaireō which means to:


to take from, take away, remove, carry off

2) to cut off

and the word for remission in Matt 26:28 is aphesis:

release from bondage or imprisonment

2) forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

The root word is aphiēmi:

to send away

So its easy to understand Paul to be talking about the blood of the New Covenant that is what takes away their sins in Rom 11:27.

There is no other way God takes away the sins of any people, save through the Blood of Christ.

This therefore is not something that is yet future for the Nation of Israel, but it has already taken place for that Nation [ The elect remnant in it] and for the rest of the elect gentiles in the world. Jn 11:50-52

50Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Lets look at vs 52 and notice the phrase " The Children of God", now lets look at Rom 9:8

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

What do we notice ? That the same phrase " The children of God" being contrasted to the children of the flesh [ Abraham's seed according to the flesh] but His [ Abraham's seed according to promise] that are the children of God.

The same difference as in Abraham's son by the flesh [ Ishmael] and Abraham's Son according to the word of promise [ Isaac], So back in Jn 11:52, the prophecy is that He [ Jesus Christ] should die for the children of God or Promise [ in National Israel] and for the children of God or promise [ scattered out into the gentile world]; And so it was this death of Christ, for the children of God, that took away the sins of Jacob or Israel.

Many are deceived into believing that the Lord Jesus Christ is coming again to take away the sins, the blindness of National Israel, but those people are going to be disappointed to say the least.
​

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

Either the term represents a goup or an individual not both!

I said individuals as in plural. A Group is an collection of people or individuals. What do you believe a group is. And the Group you call the remnant, what is the remnant a group of in your opinion ?

One American dictionary defines a group thusly:

any collection or assemblage of persons or things;

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/group

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw



I said individuals as in plural. A Group is an collection of people or individuals. What do you believe a group is. And the Group you call the remnant, what is the remnant a group of in your opinion ?

One American dictionary defines a group thusly:

any collection or assemblage of persons or things;

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/group

Did you note the words "collection" and "assemblage"? These terms are not synonomous with the words "individual" or isolated individuals.

The terms chosen by Paul such as "remnant" and "Israel" and "part" are collective group terms that are not synomynous with terms like "individual" and isolated "individuals." You have to depart from "sound words" in order to support your theory.

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

Did you note the words "collection" and "assemblage"?

Yes ! A collection or assemblage of what ?

The Church of Christ is an collection or assemblage of Individuals. If one person of that collection or assemblage was born in ad 100 and another person of that assemblage is born in 1955, they are still of that same assembly , the Church of Christ.

If one individual of the remnant of the election of grace in National Israel was born in ad 90 and another member of that election of grace that belonged to National Israel was born in 1948, its still the same remnant of the election of grace that belonged to that nation..

Any physical jew, born of the physical seed of Abraham, that is converted up until the Second Coming of Christ, belonged to the remnant according to the Election of Grace.

Any gentile that is converted up until the Second Coming is of a remnant[out of mankind] according to the Election of Grace..

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw



Yes ! A collection or assemblage of what ?

Paul did not say a "remnant of what" or an "Israel of what" - he did not use terms of individuality.

You have the same term "Israel" in the same context meaning an ethnic people existing together in the same time and space (as nations do) and then turn around in the very same context and make it mean a people who are not an ethnic people and who are not existing together in the same time or space (as nations don't) thus making the same word in the same context represent TWO DIFFERENT conflicting things in order to make it fit your interpretation!

Moreover, the use of "remnant" in the SAME TIME and SAME geographical location during Elijahs' day and later during Pauls day (v. 5) is then you completely transform the meaning of the term to fit all Jews in all times in all places simply to make it fit your conflicting interpretation.

My point is that you cannot make one term mean two completely different things in the very same context especially when the author defines it differently than you do.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Paul did not say a "remnant of what" or an "Israel of what" - he did not use terms of individuality.

You have the same term "Israel" in the same context meaning an ethnic people existing together in the same time and space (as nations do) and then turn around in the very same context and make it mean a people who are not an ethnic people and who are not existing together in the same time or space (as nations don't) thus making the same word in the same context represent TWO DIFFERENT conflicting things in order to make it fit your interpretation!

Moreover, the use of "remnant" in the SAME TIME and SAME geographical location during Elijahs' day and later during Pauls day (v. 5) is then you completely transform the meaning of the term to fit all Jews in all times in all places simply to make it fit your conflicting interpretation.

My point is that you cannot make one term mean two completely different things in the very same context especially when the author defines it differently than you do.

Romans 9:6 does not teach two different kinds of nations, one ethnic Jews and another non-ethnic Jews, but ONE nation consisting of two spiritual classifications.

Both Isaac and Ishmael share ONE ethnic origin. Both Jacob and Esau share one ethnic origin.

What they do not share is ONE spiritual origin.

6 ¶ For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

For "they" (ethnic Jews) are not all SPIRITUAL born Israel, which are of ETHNIC born Israel is the meaning of this text and proven by every illustration Paul gives to prove what he means (vv. 7-13).

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

Romans 9:6 does not teach two different kinds of nations

Yes it does. It mentions Two different Israels, so if one is a Nation, so is the Other..One was the Physical descendants of Abraham, the other was the Spiritual descendants of Abraham, born out of promise.. I meant to bring that point up earlier, thanks for reminding me..

God told Rebecca what ? Gen 25:23

And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw


God told Rebecca what ? Gen 25:23

And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

Note that the "two nations" were in the SAME ETHNIC WOMB. It was not a distinction in NATIONAL ETHNICITY but a distinction in spiritual versus non-spiritual within the SAME ETHNIC NATION. Hence, this spiritual and non-spiritual Israel is CONFINED within the SAME ETHNIC NATION!

This is true of Isaac Versus Ishmael - same ethnic father but different spiritual fathers.

This is true with Jacob versus Esau - same ethnic father but different spiritual fathers.

The "TWO" are ONE in regard to ethnicity but the TWO and not one in regard to SPIRITUALITY.

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

Note that the "two nations" were in the SAME ETHNIC WOMB

That doesn't matter with the point I am making for several reasons first. The word nation there is the hebrew word gowy and means:


nation, people

a) nation, people

1) usually of non-Hebrew people

2) of descendants of Abraham

3) of Israel

b) of swarm of locusts, other animals (fig.)

The descendants of Abraham is a Nation.

Now all believers in Christ, Children of Promise are descendants of Abraham. If you do not believe me, lets Look at Gal 3:29


29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

Now, these here Paul is speaking to is a mixture of jew and gentile believers in Christ. If you deny that, your understanding is more woeful than I care to to discuss this matter with any further. Now if Believers in Christ are Abraham's descendants, then according to the definition of the word nation, all Believers in Christ are a Nation. Do you follow me so far ? The way you answer this inquiry will let me know if you are reasonable enough to continue..

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw



That doesn't matter with the point I am making

So true! But it makes a great difference in regard to the point Paul is making which is NOT your point.

Now all believers in Christ, Children of Promise are descendants of Abraham.

Not all believers in Christ are of ethnic Israel but all those in Romans 9:6-13 are "of" Ethnic Israel. Gentile believers are of "gentile" nations and are not ethnic decendents of Abraham. Early you attempted to make the claim they are ethnic descendents but that is factually error (negroids, slavs, germanic tribes, etc.).

If you do not believe me, lets Look at Gal 3:29


29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This text does not use the term "ISRAEL" to define ALL of Abraham's "seed" because MOST of Abraham's "seed" come from the "NATIONS" he is the "father" of BY FAITH not by ethnicity or NATURAL BIRTH. However, in regard to those in Romans 9:5-13 he is their "father" ETHNICALLY by natural birth and metaphorically "by faith." However, this DUAL relationship cannot be said of the GENTILE relationship to Abraham.

Two different ethnic origins of his "seed" but only one spiritual origin. Hence, he is not the "father" of both in the SAME SENSE. In regard to elect Jews he is their "father" both ethnically BY BIRTH and metaphorically BY FAITH but with gentile elect he is not their "father" BY BIRTH but only their "father" metaphorically "by faith". Hence, the proper term that is used is "seed" but not "Israel" to show this relationship with both gentile and Jewish elect.

Now, these here Paul is speaking to is a mixture of jew and gentile believers in Christ.

I do not deny that! But do you deny he uses the word "seed" instead of "Israel"?? Do you assert that Abraham is the "father" who are BY ETHNIC BIRTH "gentiles" instead of Israel BY ETHNIC BIRTH? Do you?

If my position is correct, he could not use the term "Israel" in Galatians 3:29 but would have to use the term "seed" referring only to the "promise seed" BY FAITH or NEW BIRTH rather than BY ETHNIC BIRTH. If they were all "seed" by ETHNIC BIRTH and he was the "Father" of Gentile elect by ETHNIC BIRTH then he would have used the term "ISRAEL" not "seed."

If you cannot admit that he used the term "seed" instead of "Israel" in Galatians 3:29 there is no further basis to discuss this subject.

If you can't admit that Abraham is NOT the ethnic "father" of Gentiles then there is no further basis to discuss this. No historian would assert that Abraham is the ETHNIC "father" of elect negroids, slavs, germanic tribes, etc.

If you cannot admit that Abraham has "seed" NOT BY ETHNIC BIRTH but by faith there is no further basis to discuss this!

If you cannot admit that the "seed" of Abraham does not require ETHNIC RELATIONSHIP BY PHYSICAL BIRTH then we have no further basis to discuss this.

If you do admit to all these things then the use of "seed" is not equivilent to the use of "Israel" but "seed" can include ALL OF GOD's people regardless of ETHNIC RELATIONSHP to Abraham but the term "ISRAEL" cannot deny ETHNIC RELATIONSHIP to Abraham.

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

This text does not use the term "ISRAEL" to define ALL of Abraham's "seed"

It does not have to, Abraham's Seed which it does use is synonymous with Israel in Gal 3:29. Scripture confirms that Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

2 Chron 20:7

Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?

When Paul is writing about Israel specifically in Romans 9, uses the term Israel as a synonym Rom 9:8

Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

The inspired Term 'Seed of Abraham" or Abraham's seed is only used for Israel in scripture, so this shows more of your ignorance and your handling the word deceitfully.

I do not deny that!

Good because this more confirms your error and denial of scripture truth. Gal 3:29 is a mixture of both jew and gentile believers and they are specifically called Abraham's seed or descendants !

We have seen from the word nations in Gen 25:23 that the word nation:

is the hebrew word gowy and means:


nation, people

a) nation, people

1) usually of non-Hebrew people

2) of descendants of Abraham

3) of Israel

b) of swarm of locusts, other animals (fig.)

The descendants of Abraham is a Nation.

God made Abraham a Father of many Nations plural, not just one nation singular. This is confirmed in Gen 17:5


5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

This means that Abraham was not only the Father of ethnic jewish Israel which was a nation, any collection of Abraham's descendants as Gal 3:29 is a Nation, thats the reason for the plural in Gen 17:5

Now, If Gal 3:29 is Abraham's seed or descendants and its comprised of both jew and gentile believers in Christ, which makes them spiritual, then what kind if nation is it ? Is it a Physical Nation or a Spiritual Nation ? Its a Spiritual Nation so its a Spiritual Israel. You can make no case against this without going into flat out denial of Truth, because as Long as Believers in Christ are called by Holy Inspiration Descendants of or the seed of Abraham, they are called Israel as well, because nowhere in scripture is that term used without it meaning Israel ! So deny scripture if you want, see ya at the Judgment..

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw
The inspired Term 'Seed of Abraham" or Abraham's seed is only used for Israel in scripture, so this shows more of your ignorance and your handling the word deceitfully.

That is false! The scripture teaches that gentiles can be the "seed" of Abraham "BY FAITH" rather than BY PHYSICAL BIRTH! This is where your position fails! Gentiles are not the PHYSICAL "seed" of Abraham but "Israel" are the PHYSICAL "seed" of Abraham.


No Biblical historian will support your theory that elect Gentiles from the following nations, Negroid nations, Slavic Nations, Germanic Nations have any ethnic connection with Abraham.

Hence, the term "seed" is applicable to those elect that have no PHYSICAL connection with Abraham but the term "Israel" cannot be applied to any who have no PHYSICAL relationship to Abraham. The present metaphorical "seed" of Abraham is not "Israel" but are the metaphorical "family of God" by NEW BIRTH and BY FAITH as there is neither "Jew or gentile" in Christ.

God made Abraham a Father of many Nations plural, not just one nation singular. This is confirmed in Gen 17:5


5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

You admit that he is the "father" of both, thus making a distinction between both, that they are NOT THE SAME and so why CONFUSE them? God doesn't!

Please admit that Abraham is not the same kind of "father" to both! He is the PHYSICAL "father" only to "Israel" but he is not the PHYSICAL "father" to the "elect" coming from all "nations." He is only there METAPHORICAL "father" BY FAITH not BY physical BIRTH!

He is not the PHYSICAL "father" of elect NEGROIDS

He is not the PHYSICAL "father" of elect Slavs

He is not the PHYSICAL "father" of elect Germans (anglos, Saxions, Franks, etc.)

This is your problem with Galatians 3:29. The term "seed" refers only to those who are his children "BY FAITH" whether they are physical or metaphorical descendents of Abraham.

Paul does not use the term "Israel" in Galatians 3:29 because in Romans 9-11 Paul restricts the use of the term "Israel" to only PHYSICAL descendents of Abraham who are his "seed" by PHYSICAL birth and/or BY FAITH but NEVER includes Gentiles.

Now, If Gal 3:29 is Abraham's seed or descendants and its comprised of both jew and gentile believers in Christ, which makes them spiritual, then what kind if nation is it ?

In Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile and so it makes them "the children of God" and part of God's kingdom, that part found on earth. It makes them "the family of God."

It does not make them "Israel" as that term is restricted by use to ONLY the physical "seed" of abraham not to Gentiles as his METAPHORICAL "seed" by faith!

because nowhere in scripture is that term used without it meaning Israel.

That is false! It is impossible for the term "Israel" in Romans 11:25-28 to be inclusive of any gentile elect BECAUSE "Israel" is reserved in "blindness" "UNTIL" the last gentile elect "be come in" and that very fact denies it can include even ONE gentile elect.

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

That is false

To the statement

The inspired Term 'Seed of Abraham" or Abraham's seed is only used for Israel in scripture,

Show us from scripture then !

 

[savedbymercy]

Everyone thinks that Israel, the Israel that God has Chosen, is a Physical Ethnic Nation belonging to Abraham's physical descendants, however its not. Its a Spiritual Nation belonging to Abraham's Spiritual descendants through Christ. Gal 3:29

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

And if ye belong to Christ, then you belong to His Church. So this Seed of Abraham here in Gal 3:29 Belongs to Christ, and it is His Body the Church. But also, many have failed to realize that the Seed of Abraham is another way of saying Israel. That is the Seed of Abraham in scripture, when that term is used or Abraham's Seed, it only applies to Israel. So the Abraham's Seed, in Gal 3:29 is Israel !

But let scripture be it's own interpreter. The exact Term Abraham's Seed is used three times in the NT and one we are looking at now in Gal 3:29, the other Two are John 8:33,37

They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Now who will deny that these Two verses pertain to Descendants of Physical National Israel ?

Now lets look at the phrase seed of Abraham. The Phrase is used eight times in scripture.

2 Chron 20:7

Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?


Ps 105:6

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

Jer 32:36

Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

Rom 9:7

Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Rom 11:11

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 Cor 11:22

Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.

Heb 2:16

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Now in every case of scripture here, and we should judge according to scripture always, The Seed of Abraham or Abraham's seed is referring to Israel.

So therefore, Gal 3:29, those that belong to Christ, His Church, Abraham's seed, comprised of jew and gentile is Israel !

There could have been more scripture proof, but this should suffice any honest heart for the Lord..

 

[Dr. Walter]

But let scripture be it's own interpreter. The exact Term Abraham's Seed is used three times in the NT and one we are looking at now in Gal 3:29, the other Two are John 8:33,37

They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Now who will deny that these Two verses pertain to Descendants of Physical National Israel ?

If your beginning premise is wrong so will your conclusion be wrong.

Your premise acknowledges only PHYSICAL fatherhood of Abraham while ignoring the METAPHORICAL fatherhood of Abraham in regard to the term "seed."

For example, notice the clear METAPHORICAL use of the term "father' in the same text that speaks of His children:

Rom. 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Whose "father" was "circumcision"?? Was "circumcision" actual PHYSICALLY BORN unto Abraham and if so, who was the mother of "circumcision"?

THIS IS UNDENIALBE EVIDENCE of the metaphorical use of "father" applied to Abraham.

However, note the second part of the verse "but who also walk in the steps of that faith" demonstrating that Abraham is a ROLE MODEL to follow? How? "in the steps of faith"? He is "our father" also METAPHORICALLY by "faith."

He has PHYSICAL "seed" that come through PHYSICAL birth of whom he is the PHYSICAL "father." However, he also has METAPHORICAL "seed" that come through SPIRITUAL birth not by Abraham but BY FAITH!

Israel is the PHYSICAL SEED of Abraham but within that PHYSICAL "seed" there are those who are his SPIRITUAL "seed" not by Abraham literally and physically but METAPHORICALLY "by faith" or SPIRITUAL birth.

Outside of Israel there are Gentiles and among the Gentiles there is also a METAPHORICAL "seed" by faith.

Hence, Abraham has a literal physical "seed" among which are his METAPHORICAL "seed" by faith but he has NO LITERAL PHYSICAL "seed" among the Gentile nations but has a METAPHORICAL "seed" among them "by faith" or as Paul describes it "but who also walk in the steps of that faith."

In Romans 11:25-28 "Israel" refers to nothing but PHYSICAL born "seed" who are "ALL" metaphorical "seed" by faith as well.

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

If your beginning premise is wrong so will your conclusion be wrong.

Answer post 133 please ! Provide scripture !

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw

"The inspired Term 'Seed of Abraham" or Abraham's seed is only used for Israel in scripture"

Show us from scripture then !

I cannot find where you quoted this from? My consistent position has been in every post that "seed of Abraham" has TWO different applications (1) Physical and (2) Metaphorical. In the PHYSICAL sense it is used only for Israel in Scripture.

In the Physical sense Abraham had eight sons (1) Ishmael; (2) Isaac; (3)Zimran, and (4) Jokshan, and (5) Medan, and (6) Midian, and (7) Ishbak, and
(8)Shuah.

However, the "seed of Abrahram" is never used in scripture for the other sons. None of these other son's were the father's of the Negroid nations or the Salvic nations or Germanic nations or the Grecian nations or the nations in the area of Persia, India, China, etc.

Now, you prove that the term "father" is not used "metaphorically" in the sense of a role model for Abraham in Romans 4 and metaphorically for those who are His "seed" BY FAITH rather than by physical birth.

 

[savedbymercy]

Rom 11:28

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Paul here is back to identifying the Two Israels as in Rom 9:6; As concerning the Gospel [Israel according to the flesh] which was comprised mostly of National Israel as a whole, concerning them, they are enemies for your sake [Elect Gentiles],

but as touching the Election [ Israel according to promise, the small Jewish Remnant] they are Beloved for the Father's sake, that is Abraham, Issac and Jacob, who were related to Jesus Christ [spiritually] .

So again, God hath not cast away the entire race of jews, for Paul keeps reminding, that some in that Nation as he himself are of the foreknown [ Rom 11:1-2], and those are Gods True Covenant People, those foreknown in Christ and who eventually believe on Him.

Most who oppose this teaching, that National Covenant Israel has been rejected, set aside, and cursed, charge us with being anti semitic, but that is not the case at all, because all people who are not foreknown in Christ, regardless of ethnicity [ jews no exception] are rejected of God and Christ and accursed. Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew[foreknew] you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Now it is those who believe that because of race, being a ethnic jew, that they are special to God in some kind of way, especially spiritually, it is they who practice racism, and racial pride, which is evil before God, for it is nothing but the hateful sin of pride.

So remember, any people who are not of the foreknown of God, having been chosen in Christ [ God's Beloved Son] before the foundation of the world, they are a hated, rejected people, no matter what your race is, or where you live geographically.

The blinded Nation was the means by which God grafted in the Elect Gentiles, So National Israel were enemies for that cause, and there are yet in National Israel, those that were beloved [ like Paul] for the Fathers sake, like Abraham, whom Himself was beloved of God, having been Chosen in the Beloved Son, that is what makes any People beloved, not race !
​

 

[Dr. Walter]

You can't respond to my last two posts so you ignore them! Typical.

Your interpreation of verse 28 is impossible if the immediate context has anything to do with defining that text.

Those who are presently "enemies" of the gospel FOR YOUR SAKES are the same two entities in verse 25 - national Israel and Gentile elect. They continue to be "enemies" of the gospel FOR YOUR SAKES (Gentile elect) "until" the last gentile is saved. However, the same ones who are "enemies" of the gospel for YOUR SAKES during the calling in of the Gentile elect will be saved "touching election" when the last Gentile elect "be come in."

This is so obvious to anyone who has spiritual eyes to see that you must intentionaly ignore the explicit and plain contextual evidence! Your blind!

Rom 11:28

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

.....but as touching the Election [ Israel according to promise, the small Jewish Remnant].​

What a joke! The "remant" is being saved presently (v. 5) but these are enemies of the gospel presently (v. 28). Not only are these "enemies of the gospel" PRESENTLY but will continue to be enemies of the gospel "FOR YOUR SAKES" so that the last gentile elect will "be come in" before these are saved "touching election".​

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

Your interpreation of verse 28 is impossible if the immediate context has anything to do with defining that text.

Until you deal with post 133 with scripture, you are shown a liar..I am not going to explain nothing else to you, until you prove your comment,which post 133 refers to.