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A Common Mistake In Christian Marriages.

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JoReba

New Member
The scripture you refer to is in the context of the church, not the marriage. Twisting the scriptures to force a woman into a role of "doormat" is spiritual abuse, plain and simple.

There is indeed the context of marriage within I Timothy Ch. 2 as God uses the marriage of Adam and Eve as the example for all marriages, where the wife, in the position of Eve, is to refrain from usurping any authority over her husband, and is to learn in silence. Eve's problem was that she started talking to The Serpent instead of remaining in silence. Eve thought she "knew what was best for her husband." Remember?

When wives think they "know what is best for their husband" they are indeed twisting Scripture. If she "feels" like a doormat, then she needs to remember who she is in Christ. Doing so is far better than anything plain and simple, and is refined and Godly.
 

JoReba

New Member
Both aquilla & priscilla taught apollos. If what you say is true then the passages in matthew 18 & Galatians regarding correcting a fellow christian should apply only between men, between women, and one-way from a husband to his wife...but those passages make no such stipulation.

If I am screaming at my 19 month old son for going in the kitchen when he is not allowed, and telling him he will burn in hell if he keeps disobeying me...Are you saying my wife's biblical duty is to stand by and support my handling of my spiritual leadership in my home? I would hope she would point out my foolishness before i did any long-term damage to my son's view of God.

Scripture states that Faith comes from God as a gift, and does not state that Faith comes by way of a human father's ability to mimic Godliness. To think a father's misconduct can do "long-term damage" to his son's view of God is false. That is not taught in Scripture.

Praise Jesus for the practicality of His Written Word and its surety for us as we accept God's provisions for us rather than listening to anything from popularized Church culture.

If Priscilla taught Apollos anything she was disobeying God's Word through Apostle Paul's instructions regarding women and wives not teaching men.
 

JoReba

New Member
Or I would also hope that you could go to your wife with a problem in your soul and ask her for her advice and to ask her to then pray for you and to hold you accountable. Or to give you counsel on how to deal with an issue at work or with a friend. Or even what she thinks about a particular Scripture.

Do you disagree with Apostle Paul as he wrote The Word of God?

There is no Scripture which speaks of a Godly husband "going to his wife with a problem in [his] soul and asking her for her advice," and than having her "hold you accountable." As well, no Scripture shows a Godly husband's wife "giving him counsel with an issue at work or with a friend."

Abraham's wife presumed to do that, and the bastard Ishmael was conceived, causing the huge problems today we have with the Muslims. Thanks to her. Lol.
 

JoReba

New Member
Aww thanks. Right now we are going through some particularly difficult times in life and ministry. Hubby and I are each other's confidants. We are the only ones that we can be completely open with and talk things through. I can't imagine if I held the same ideas as the OP how my husband would deal with this. He'd honestly go crazy. I know I would go bonkers!! I can't talk to anyone else without gossiping. He can't talk to anyone without causing issues. So we need to talk to each other. So what I wrote is coming from a marriage that is very much living it. The OPs ideas are not what God designed and VERY unhealthy.

Did God design what Apostle Paul wrote in I Timothy Ch. 2? Are you ready to tell God you have a better idea than His for your marriage?

Lol. Praise God for the accountability we all will have to Him for His Written Word.
 

mandym

New Member
There is no Scripture which speaks of a Godly husband "going to his wife with a problem in [his] soul and asking her for her advice," and than having her "hold you accountable." As well, no Scripture shows a Godly husband's wife "giving him counsel with an issue at work or with a friend."

There is also no scripture which commands it to use the toilet. Man, what a predicament you are in.:laugh:
 

JoReba

New Member
It seems to me that some people would benefit from a study of submission. It most certainly does not mean my bride is my slave. It does mean she recognizes the authority God gave me, and its associated responsibilities before God, and as such is vital partner in life that is cherished and pursued and loved.

A wife must see to that she respects her husband, but when he loves her the way he is called to love her then submission and respect come easily.

And, she is to learn in silence.
 

abcgrad94

Active Member
JoReba, I'm afraid you've stumbled into the wrong forum. This is BAPTIST board. Men who treat their wives the way you describe are called Muslims. :laugh:
 

JoReba

New Member
I must say that in more than 40 years as a Christian, I have neither heard nor preached the idea that Christian wives are to serve their husbands as part-time ethical and moral reference-points. I won't even be preaching it on 18th March (Mothers' Day/Mothering Sunday here). Perhaps such teaching is prevelant in America.

Perhaps you should get out more often.
 

JoReba

New Member
I agree and I am definitiely not egalatarian in my perspective!

Those who make man the "king in his castle" and woman his "willing servant" have no clue about what the Scriptures actually teach about the marraige relationship and about the equal POSITION of each before God.

Men are called to emulate Christ in marriage -- and the way HE gave Himself for the church. As I recall that involved an utter act of love and grace called crucifixion... Women are called to respect (and the love that they naturally have) their husbands as the heads of the household, in that their men, who emulate Christ, are worthy of walking with toward eternity.

I seldom find married men who are actually willing to LOVE their wives the way that Scripture teaches. Rather, they desire to be loved as if they were loving themselves...

How have you given yourself for your wife the same way Christ gave Himself for the Church?

Remember, Matthew 5:16 KJV says, "Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and praise your father which is in heaven." Is your self sacrifice to your wife a good work as it emulates Christ's sacrifice for The church? If so, Matthew 5:16 KJV directs you to let us know about it.
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
In fact, Scripture clearly states that a woman is to learn in silence, is not to attempt to usurp the authority of a man, and is not to teach a man.

Praise God for the utility and practical value of His Written Word as we conform our innermost thoughts to it, and leave the popularized notions of the World. Amen.

Hi JoReba,

Welcome aboard.

Your profile says you are "a fun loving girl" yet in this post you say that a woman "is not to attempt to usurp the authority of a man" and "is to learn in silence" and "is not to teach a man".

Are you not going against your own pronouncements by attempting to teach us men the scriptural "common mistake" which perchance some of us are making?

Or is it only your husband (should you have one) that you are forbidden to teach?

There are many pastors and deacons and men of church leadership here on the BB, are you attempting to teach them?

Or since you have claimed to be "a fun loving girl" are you just funnin' with us? :)

HankD
 
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12strings

Active Member
Scripture states that Faith comes from God as a gift, and does not state that Faith comes by way of a human father's ability to mimic Godliness. To think a father's misconduct can do "long-term damage" to his son's view of God is false. That is not taught in Scripture.

Praise Jesus for the practicality of His Written Word and its surety for us as we accept God's provisions for us rather than listening to anything from popularized Church culture.

If Priscilla taught Apollos anything she was disobeying God's Word through Apostle Paul's instructions regarding women and wives not teaching men.

WOW! Just wow!

1. Are you saying my parenting has absolutely no effect on my son's spiritual life? Why did God give us Deuteronomy 6 and tell us to teach and train our children about God? Why does Proverbs say to "train up a child in the way he should go?" Eph. says "Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord."

-Are you saying Wives cannot obey Galatians 6:1? If they are spiritual, and the husband is caught in a sin, is it not her responsibility to work toward his correction and restoration?

2. Acts 18:24 Now a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, icompetent in the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord. And being fervent in spirit,7 he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only lthe baptism of John.
26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him nthe way of God more accurately.


-There is NO indication in these verses that Priscilla did anything wrong here. There IS a Biblical record of her and her husband teaching Apollos, and that apollos ministry was fruitful after this teaching.
 

mont974x4

New Member
Sinned enter the world through Adam, not Eve. Abraham is to blame for Ishmael. He made the choice, not Sarai.

Were Abigail and David wrong in 1 Sam 25?
Was Esther wrong?
What about Deborah?
Were the spies wrong for letting Rahab help them?

Paul did not mean that women were supposed to shut up and sit in the corner. He was calling on women to help maintain good order and discipline in the church.
 

JoReba

New Member
The Word is a powerful source of truth. In fact, I believe it to be the only reliable source of truth.

Biblical submission does not mean that our brides are to be silent door mats obeying our every whim. That denies the call for husbands to love our brides as Christ loved the Church. It also ignores the reality that communication must take place for their to be a healthy relationship. We see this in God's relationship with Adam and Eve prior to the fall. God planned, prior to the foundation of the world, to redeem His people so that the relationship that was damaged in The Fall could be restored.


In chapter 2 Peter began giving some practical advice as to how people should behave in order to prove who they are in Christ, to the glory of God. In 2:18 we read how servants are called to submit to those that God has placed in authority over them. This word used for “submissive” in that verse is the same word we find here in 3:1 in regards to wives responsibility to their husbands. It is hupotasso
G5293
ὑποτάσσω
hupotassō
hoop-ot-as'-so
From G5259 and G5021; to subordinate; reflexively to obey: - be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.
It means to voluntarily place your own self under someone else in an orderly fashion. It is recognizing God’s ordained authority structure. We should notice that the calling is given to the person doing the submitting, not to the person in the position of authority. Now, believers in those positions being submitted to do have their own instructions, but those are addressed elsewhere. When we recognize and honor the authority of a person over us, especially a non-believer, we are honoring God and that is something that we need to keep in mind. In 2:13 we see we submit “for the Lord’s sake”.
In 3:1 the wife is called to submit to her husband. This is in the context of each individual marriage relationship. My wife does not submit to another woman’s husband. He is not the God ordained head of her family. I am. The word hupotasso is also the word we find in Ephesians 5….
Eph 5:22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.

Eph 5:33 Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.
This call to submit does not mean that women are any less than men. We should remember what we read in our Colossians study a few months ago…
Col 3:9 Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices,
Col 3:10 and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him--
Col 3:11 a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.
And what we read in Galatians…
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.
And then we see, here in 1 Peter, Ephesians, and Colossians how we are to “act like who we are in Christ” in the context of whatever role we have been called to play in life…whether slave, master, man, woman, husband or wife. So we see that scripturally we are equal before God but we are called to different roles. We can be, actually we are, equal but different. So, when we submit we are merely recognizing these various roles and have determined to behave according to our position as a way to honor God.

So then, you do agree with God "we see" that women are to voluntarily learn in silence. Very good.

Where you found this "doormat" issue is a mystery to me. It sounds more like a straw man.

Praise God for the surety and specificity of His Plan and instructions for a woman and a wife.
 

JoReba

New Member
I think some might have misunderstood the point JoReba was trying to bring across?

Perhaps he/she could expound a bit more?

I think we should see and can see that it is God's point He is trying to bring across in His Word. I did not write the Word of God.
 

mont974x4

New Member
Hi JoReba,

Welcome aboard.

Your profile says you are "a fun loving girl" yet in this post you say that a woman "is not to attempt to usurp the authority of a man" and "is to learn in silence" and "is not to teach a man".

Are you not going against your own pronouncements by attempting to teach us men the scriptural "common mistake" which perchance some of us are making?

Or is it only your husband (should you have one) that you are forbidden to teach?

There are many pastors and deacons and men of church leadership here on the BB, are you attempting to teach them?

Or since you have claimed to be "a fun loving girl" are you just funnin' with us? :)

HankD

oops

My kids would probably say that someone just got "owned".
 

mont974x4

New Member
So then, you do agree with God "we see" that women are to voluntarily learn in silence. Very good.

Where you found this "doormat" issue is a mystery to me. It sounds more like a straw man.

Praise God for the surety and specificity of His Plan and instructions for a woman and a wife.

Are you unwilling to deal my post honestly? You know that is not what I said.

Are you willing to follow your own advice and be silent and let me, a man and pastor, teach you?
 

glfredrick

New Member
Are you unwilling to deal my post honestly? You know that is not what I said.

Are you willing to follow your own advice and be silent and let me, a man and pastor, teach you?

Is she of YOUR CHURCH and us she YOUR WIFE?

Otherwise, I would suggest that you have no jurisdiction whatsoever in the matter.
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
BTW Jo,

Don't let my post stop you from making your points.

Women are welcome here at the BB to make comments, give advice, etc, etc. But no doubt you knew that before you made your post.

Another BTW, a few years ago we had a similar debate and I sided with your interpretation as the "devil's advocate" (no reflection on you as you wern't here yet).

According to the scripture (1 Corinthians 14:34-35) a woman is supposed to be silent in the church with no distinction as to whom and with no apparent exceptions.

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.​

So, a woman therefore would not even be allowed to teach children, other woman, sing aloud, pray aloud, give testimony, etc...​

Do you agree?​

You also mentioned Adam and Eve as a model.​

What therefore do you think of the Old Testament prophetesses Deborah and Hulda who spoke in the name of the Lord to a large contigency of Israeli men?​

Thanks
HankD​
 
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