A Comparison, Christ vs Mohammed

[TolerantBigot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Will:
I’m glad you had a Webster’s handy, but I asked you for your definitions not those straight out of a dictionary.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Webster and me, we gladly agree.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
(i.e. what is marked by forbearance and endurance.)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thing which is described as tolerant, I guess.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
Since tolerance means letting someone you disagree with practice and speak about what you know is wrong, in an unhindered manner, I think you must be describing Islamic countries.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Huh? Where did I talk about Islamic countries? Where did I talk about tolerance? You started it, I just needed a cool name.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
You certainly can’t be talking about this country or this board for that matter.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right, I wasn't talking about anyone. I just needed a name to register.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
As we are tolerating your inaccurate thoughts. No one in hindering your expressions.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I know, and I think that's pretty cool.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
A very tolerant bigot asked:
&gt;Do you think that most if not all Holy Scriptures need the right context and interpretation for a proper understanding? &lt;

So, in your cases listed, yes I believe you needed to be able to see the right context.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You didn't answer my question. Lets try it again, and everybody else can play along too:
Do you think that most if not all Holy Scriptures (like the Holy Bible, or the Holy Koran, or the Bhagavad-Gita) need the right context and interpretation for a proper understanding?

Let's do it, I know you can.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
A highly tolerant bigot asked:
&gt;Well, maybe "travel over land and sea to win a single convert" is a metapher for taking great strains, like lying and cheating and quoting out of context to convert other people to your own faith, and make them in this process twice as worse as yourself?&lt;

You have taken great strains,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. It was quite easy.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
you have quoted the Bible out of context,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I have.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
and you have tried to convince people over to your own beliefs.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I didn't. I'm not a Muslim, or a Christian, I'm a spiritual freelancer.

But I quite like this (out of context) quote:
"the truth will set you free"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
Yet, you have found tolerance in allowing you to make your points.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I have, and I thank everyone for that. Nice board, I'll recommend it to my friends.

 

[John Wells]

Bigot,

What do you hope to accomplish here? Do you think you will expose Christianity as a lie? A false hope, and we'll all pack our bags and go home?

As a board moderator, let me just say that you are being watched! If you came searching for answers, then you are most welcome. If you came thinking you've got all the answers and you just want to cause trouble, leave now! God bless!

 

[TolerantBigot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Wells:
Bigot,

What do you hope to accomplish here?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I want to bring the truth out (whatever it will be).

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
Do you think you will expose Christianity as a lie?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. I don't think that Christianity is a lie, quite the opposite, I think that the Bible is quite a good way for salvation.

It's not my way, because I don't want to support a spiritual monopol, but if it works for you, more power to, well, whomever.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
A false hope, and we'll all pack our bags and go home?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, you can't go home again, so that's not the deal. And you don't need your bags, because as someone else said:
"In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple."

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
As a board moderator, let me just say that you are being watched!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, how kinky...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
If you came searching for answers, then you are most welcome. If you came thinking you've got all the answers and you just want to cause trouble, leave now! God bless!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't have any anwers, only question.

 

[Brother Adam]

"No. I don't think that Christianity is a lie, quite the opposite, I think that the Bible is quite a good way for salvation."

Now you have me curious! You say that you are a spiritual freelancer. And you say that the Bible provided "a good way for salvation". Does that mean you believe the Bible is true and Jesus Christ is the Son of God and God the Son- or does that mean you believe that we have one of many ways to heaven (Hinduism), or something else? Perhaps that we have a good way to salvation yet you don't know if it is true?

UNP, Adam

 

[John Wells]

Bigot,

Then I welcome you and hope you ask good questions and give good thought to the answers you get.

Many people discount the diety of Jesus, claiming instead that he "was a great moral teacher." "A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic--on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg--or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to." -- C.S. Lewis, "Mere Christianity"

Good book! You should read it. God bless!

 

[TolerantBigot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyfree432:
Now you have me curious!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's good.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
You say that you are a spiritual freelancer.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I used to be a long-time atheist, but one day I thought to myself "hey, you bigot, so many religious people, there must be something to it! Let us take a good look."

So I started to look. Real hard.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
And you say that the Bible provided "a good way for salvation".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure does.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
Does that mean you believe the Bible is true and Jesus Christ is the Son of God and God the Son-
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, in a way, yes. But I think that the Truth with the big T cannot be known, so yes, the Bible is true, and Jesus Christ is the Son of God and God the Son - but that is not THE TRUTH. This truth, you need to look for, so you have to keep your eyes open.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
or does that mean you believe that we have one of many ways to heaven (Hinduism)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I love Hinduism, but I can't be a Hindu, because it's too much a part of India, and I'm too much a part of Europe.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
or something else? Perhaps that we have a good way to salvation yet you don't know if it is true?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, it is true, but I can't be a Christian, because there are already too many of them out there. I refuse to be counted with all the people who want to use numbers for might.

But I grew up in a Christian culture, so I'm always drawn to it. For better or worse.

 

[TolerantBigot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Wells:
Then I welcome you and hope you ask good questions and give good thought to the answers you get.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you, but I have to tell you, that I'm not an easy customer to satisfy.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
Many people discount the diety of Jesus, claiming instead that he "was a great moral teacher."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't do that.

&lt;snipped Lewis-quote&gt;

I'm sorry, but this trilemma doesn't work for me. I'm not even sure if Jesus existed in a strict historical sense - but on the other hand imho he existed and still exists in a, well, wider historical and spiritual sense.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
Good book! You should read it. God bless
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I would love to buy some Christian books, but then I have to buy so much stuff, that it isn't quite on top of my list.

But I like some Christian music. Jennifer Knapp, I think is great. Great voice, great songs.

 

[John Wells]

Bigot said, "Thank you, but I have to tell you, that I'm not an easy customer to satisfy."

No problem, 'cause we opperate on a self-serve system. You get out of it what you put into it (and are willing to absorb).

A library should have C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity." It's a classic. He, like you, was very much a skeptic until he open-mindedly investigated the facts. Lewis discovered the truth due to two differences between himself and you: 1) Pride - your arrogance and pridefulness blare through your posts. Pride caused Satan to fall. Pride caused Adam to fall, and it will keep you fallen unless you can humble yourself. 2) Open-minded - You must be seeking with your heart as well as your mind. God bless!

 

[Ps104_33]

The way Muslim men treat their women over in the Middle East is enough to show me that there is something wrong with that religion.
Look at the conditiom of those filthy countries. They all want to come over here. The condition and state of a country is a direct result of the way they worship.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ps104_33:
The way Muslim men treat their women over in the Middle East is enough to show me that there is something wrong with that religion.
Look at the conditiom of those filthy countries. They all want to come over here. The condition and state of a country is a direct result of the way they worship.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well how long did it take Europe to become a good place to live? How many thousand years after endorsing christianity?

How about how women are treated in the US? Women are still paid less to do the same job. Women in many Christian faiths are encouraged to submit to their husbands in decisions of religion, faith, and child raising. Are women not raped in the US?

Granted, Afghanistan, and strictly conservative islamic followers are brutal to their women. However, the US is hardly perfect. Alot of people still think women should be in the house. Or is that different?

 

[John Wells]

Jimmy,

The bad conditions you refer to are caused by sin, not Christianity. Now Christians do still occasionally sin, and to that extent they may contribute some, but very disproportionally. We'll not be perfected until we get to heaven. So other than just bash Christians, I don't see that you've made much of a point.

 

[TolerantBigot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ps104_33:
The way Muslim men treat their women over in the Middle East is enough to show me that there is something wrong with that religion.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The way other Christians let your posts stand without almost any criticism is enough to show me that there is something wrong with that religion.

The way gays are treated.
The way Pagans and Wiccans are treated.
The way Atheists are treated.

I'm sure you don't need me to tell you what would happen if the Christians in the States (or other countries) had their way. You know a bit of history, don't you?

That's why I said that Christianity is only a "quite good way for salavation". It's too easy to get lost on that way, you see...

 

[TolerantBigot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Wells:
The bad conditions you refer to are caused by sin, not Christianity.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And Muslim men don't sin?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
So other than just bash Christians, I don't see that you've made much of a point.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, other than just bashing Muslims, what point did Ps104_33 make, please tell me?

 

[John Wells]

Bigot said, "So, other than just bashing Muslims, what point did Ps104_33 make, please tell me?"

I don't agree with what Ps104_33 said. How about if you and I be accountable to each other for what we say only?

So you're saying because Christians make mistakes, and unsaved people have done bad things in the name of Christianity that it's teachings are flawed? Let's clarify something. Jesus Christ and His teachings, which we call Christianity are perfect. If you disagree with that, take any teaching of Jesus and debunk it. It is man's spin on Christianity (Jesus' teachings), religion, that is not perfect and never will be. How can an imperfect human being be perfect? What we Christians are striving for is to live according to Jesus' teachings. We won't get there this side of heaven, but we most certainly will when we get there.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Wells:
Jimmy,

The bad conditions you refer to are caused by sin, not Christianity. Now Christians do still occasionally sin, and to that extent they may contribute some, but very disproportionally. We'll not be perfected until we get to heaven. So other than just bash Christians, I don't see that you've made much of a point.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Occasionally sin? I guess it is all relative. It has been a long time since christians condoned slavery. It has been a long time since christians condoned the Manifest Destiny. OH WAIT! Christians still love to buy products made by the hands of impovershed children. Christians are still against helping the natives of this land. My bad, Christians are still pretty bad. You all talk about boycotting a company that offers same-sex health care plans, but never do you hear anyone boycotting companies that use slave labor or virtual slave labor to make the great materialistic items you so cherish, cheaper to buy, so you can accumulate more. That's cool. Its all relative.

 

[Maria]

TolerantBigot

I know that you are only searching for the truth. I will pray for you. Search the truth first start in your heart where there is love. No matter how much books you’ll read, it still up to you what to believe in. Be, where you will have peace. Seek in your heart not just in your mind. I know that no one can be perfect but doing good to you and towards other is what God wants us to do. Pray for guidance, listen to your heart not just in your mind cause our mind sometimes is deceiving.
Maria

 

[Ps104_33]

Look at India
look at Africa
look at China
look at indonesia
look at russia
look at all the stans
Dont blame that mess on colonozation. The US and Great Britain havent been over there in years. Theyve made a mess since we left.
GIVE ME THE GOOD OLE USA BABY!!!!!!!!!!11

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ps104_33:
Look at India
look at Africa
look at China
look at indonesia
look at russia
look at all the stans
Dont blame that mess on colonozation. The US and Great Britain havent been over there in years. Theyve made a mess since we left.
GIVE ME THE GOOD OLE USA BABY!!!!!!!!!!11<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What arrogence! How about the natives that were slaughtered to create the US? How about the Asians that the trans-continental railroad was built on? That railroad is the reason the US could grow. Blacks are still discriminated against in this nation. Women still don't get paid or treated equal. Yeah, this country is great if you are a white heterosexual male.

 

[John Wells]

Jimmy,

If you dislike the US so much you know there are planes and boats leaving every day. Why don't you take one?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Wells:
Jimmy,

If you dislike the US so much you know there are planes and boats leaving every day. Why don't you take one?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's wrong with admitting errors? Is your national PRIDE too high to be able to admit when a nation has gone so terribly wrong? Are you willing to forget the pain that still exists in people today because of these actions? Don't you want to make the US better? That will not happen until we admit our errors, correct them, and never make them again.