A Day of Unrest and Riots in Atlanta and the Most Powerful Job in the Country

[Steven Yeadon]

Are you sure about this? An untrained guy running around tasering policemen with lethal weapons? I'm not sure we're equipped to know all that can go wrong in this scenario. Bare hands can be lethal.

Yeah, but the crimes he committed were only resisting arrest, trying to evade capture, and a DUI. Nothing worth a potentially lethal encounter.

I'll share that in the gun fight I was near, the security guard missed the bank robber with every round. That makes me more angry at the security guard. The cops established a few kilometer perimeter and found the robbers easy. I may be wrong, but this incident in Atlanta doesn't seem like a crime worthy of immediate pursuit with a deadly weapon was justified.

Then again, if as the FBI Agent I saw on the news said, that taser are considered a deadly weapon to an officer. The problem is not the officer but his training.

 

[Calminian]

Yeah, but the crimes he committed were only resisting arrest.....

Um.... there's that stealing a weapon thing.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Maybe. Then again, we're not out there dealing with what they're dealing with. Are you willing to surrounding your own life, if it comes down to an innocent bystander or the suspect? If an officer decides not to take down a dangerous man, and he ends up killing you or a family member, will you be resigned to accept this? Questions to ponder in this new age.

And Steve, its still our choice, do you want to defend yourself or do you want to rely on cops? You live in Florida... Orlando I believe. Well my son also lives near there and he has a permit to carry and both he and his fiancée are very practiced with using weapons correctly. If you would like, I can hook you up... he could take you to the gun range.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Um.... there's that stealing a weapon thing.

Oops I forgot that. I'll step back and say this incident is very nebulous. Our back and forth with people in this thread proves that.

If the saints, those with much better judgment than unbelievers can't pin things down, then we are dealing with a very difficult situation. I'll step back from emotion and try to think about this.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

And Steve, its still not our choice, do you want to defend yourself or do you want to rely on cops? You live in Florida... Orlando I believe. Well my son also lives near there and he has a permit to carry and both he and his fiancée are very practiced with using weapons correctly. If you would like, I can hook you up... he could take you to the gun range.

I'm unable to purchase a gun. I have a mental illness. Yeah, I am a military analyst. When hired I will get clearance, but I can't own a gun. Stupid laws. Florida is nicer than most though. I can petition the court for my rights and my therapist was behind me in this. I may have to, Orlando is pretty dangerous depending on neighborhood.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yeah, but the crimes he committed were only resisting arrest, trying to evade capture, and a DUI. Nothing worth a potentially lethal encounter.

I'll share that in the gun fight I was near, the security guard missed the bank robber with every round. That makes me more angry at the security guard. The cops established a few kilometer perimeter and found the robbers easy. I may be wrong, but this incident in Atlanta doesn't seem like a crime worthy of immediate pursuit with a deadly weapon was justified.

Then again, if as the FBI Agent I saw on the news said, that taser are considered a deadly weapon to an officer. The problem is not the officer but his training.

Probably right... a well trained law officer should have never let things get away from him. BTW, if you want to hook up with my son, let me know know.... his name is also Steve!

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Probably right... a well trained law officer should have never let things get away from him. BTW, if you want to hook up with my son, let me know know.... his name is also Steve!

I'd like to meet a local. Hook me up when COVID gets overcone so much we can do public events again, thank you.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm unable to purchase a gun. I have a mental illness. Yeah, I am a military analyst. When hired I will get clearance, but I can't own a gun. Stupid laws. Florida is nicer than most though. I can petition the court for my rights and my therapist was behind me in this. I may have to, Orlando is pretty dangerous depending on neighborhood.

Yea, my son told me that about Orlando....but if you want to research this in more depth feel free to reach out. Perhaps you could take some martial arts defense courses instead of a hand gun. I’d personally prefer to rely on myself vs a cop.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Oops I forgot that. I'll step back and say this incident is very nebulous. Our back and forth with people in this thread proves that.

If the saints, those with much better judgment than unbelievers can't pin things down, then we are dealing with a very difficult situation. I'll step back from emotion and try to think about this.

SY, as always, this was a regrettable death, but also shameful. Drunk drivers are a dangerous lot. He could have easily killed someone in that condition. This man showed no consideration for anyone but himself, then played the fool and died like one. Regrettable, but also shameful.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Yeah, but the crimes he committed were only resisting arrest,

That means violence against law-enforcement.

trying to evade capture,

An obviously violent person running into the community, now armed.

and a DUI.

So a violent and now dangerously armed person who is unreasonable and under the influence of mind-altering drugs......
You obviously don't think like law-enforcement at all.

Nothing worth a potentially lethal encounter.

It's unfortunate, I grant you....
But, that's a reason you might have to shoot a man....
Why don't you answer the question...
I'll give you some options, and please answer them. Should they:
1.) Have simply let a drug-addled man willing to commit indiscriminate violence in commission of a crime to run freely in the community armed with a potentially dangerous weapon he took from police.
2.) Taze him
3.) Immediately taken the threat out with the only force they had remaining at their disposal.
4.) Said to themselves....screw little innocent old ladies, he's black, so, he's most likely only going to victimize people in black communities anyways, so, what do I care as a white guy.
After all, the perpetrator is actually unlikely to really threaten my community (statistically any potential victim would be black) why risk my job protecting the black community anyway....I'm white and racist, so, I'm going to get a donut, and write it up as an encounter where my tazer was taken and the perp simpy ran away too fast for me to respond.

The poor dumb cop cared too much.
That's where he went wrong.
He should have said "meh, what do I care" not my problem, he's only going to victimize blacks in a black community anyway.

That's the "racism" in this country Steven....

It's God-fearing and law-abiding police both black and white losing their jobs and going to prison and having their names dragged through the mud by people like you for trying to protect mostly black communities from mostly black criminals....God help them.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Or as Stacey Abrams put it.
Stacey Abrams: “A Man Was Murdered Because He Was Asleep in a Drive-Through” (VIDEO)

Not only that, Abrams made it all about race, saying some white guy took a taser and was only arrested, while this guy did the same but was killed because he was black. Certain politicians are getting racier and racier.

 

[Salty]

Its so easy to be a Monday Morning Quarterback.
But unless you are in that position- with the Adriana running
because a suspect was able to free himself from two LEO's,
and in addition steals one of your partners weapons...... and uses it..
Now some would say- well his partner should know the difference......

Great, we will tell the cops - from now on to say "pretty please, will you drop my
weapon -- and would you please put you hands behind your back so I can handcuff you
and I promise not to make them too tight... (and don't forget his Miranda rights)
within that time, he could have killed both partners - but at least they did say pretty please


So unless you are a LEO who has been in such a situation, or a GI in combat (not just a combat zone)
I will leave it here.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Um.... there's that stealing a weapon thing.

Yeah....he's not getting that.

 

[Calminian]

Yeah....he's not getting that.

Nah, I think he is. Steven's a pretty reasonable guy, and this incident has a few variables to wade through.

I do believe there are a few bad-apple cops, like in the video here.

There are bad police that need to be held accountable. What's so disturbing is the wholesale judgment of all police, who, IMO, 99.999% are everyday heroes. In a chaotic situation like we have today, police need a fair trial, publicly and legally.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

He should have...
He didn't, so the cops responded.
If they were smart, they'd have let him go and gotten a donut, because as government employees, they'd never have been investigated, and they could continue to draw a pay-check while letting the thug terrorize the community.
It's their fault for being stupid enough to care about protecting a community which will crucify them.
They should have stuck with passing out speeding tickets to little old ladies.
They'd still get paid.

oh so now you’re going to descend into sentimentality. A truly strong man is never segmental. He never considers others. He never fights for others....he fights only for himself. All the rest is weakness.
Btw,I don’t rely on cops for anything except maybe filling out reports.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Nah, I think he is. Steven's a pretty reasonable guy, and this one has a few variables to wade through.

I do believe there are a few bad-apple cops, like in the video here.

There are bad police that need to be held accountable. What's so disturbing is the wholesale judgment of all police, who, IMO, 99.999% are everyday heroes. In a chaotic situation like we have today, police need a fair trial, publicly and legally.

Agreed that we are innocent till proven guilty. I also watch law enforcement shows and know most are public servants doing rightly.

I found this statute on the use of force by law enforcement in Georgia.

(b) Sheriffs and peace officers who are appointed or employed in conformity with Chapter 8 of Title 35 may use deadly force to apprehend a suspected felon only when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect possesses a deadly weapon or any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury; when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect poses an immediate threat of physical violence to the officer or others; or when there is probable cause to believe that the suspect has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm. Nothing in this Code section shall be construed so as to restrict such sheriffs or peace officers from the use of such reasonable nondeadly force as may be necessary to apprehend and arrest a suspected felon or misdemeanant.

2010 Georgia Code :: TITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE :: CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS :: ARTICLE 2 - ARREST BY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS GENERALLY :: § 17-4-20 - Authorization of arrests with and without warrants generally; use of deadly force; adoption or promulgation of conflicting regulations, policies, ordinances, and resolutions; authority of nuclear power facility security officer

Ok, this leaves only one question. Is a taser, when used offensively, a weapon that can inflict serious harm?

I found tasers are considered to cause serious bodily harm when used offensively.

Using a stun gun or Taser might also carry felony charges under other statutes that don’t specifically mention these electrical weapons. For instance, it’s considered aggravated assault when the crime is carried out with a deadly weapon or any device that causes or is likely to cause serious bodily injury when used offensively. Also, armed robbery involves using an offensive weapon to forcibly take property away from someone. The Georgia Supreme Court has recognized that stun guns and Tasers may be considered offensive weapons that are likely to result in serious bodily injury, depending on how they’re used (Harwell v. State, 512 S.E.2d 892 (Ga. Sup. Ct. 1999)).

Stun Gun Laws in Georgia

However, the perpetrator was shot in the back after discharging his taser, but given everything happened in seconds. The officer was likely justified to use deadly force.

That said, this was lawful but awful. Training needs to change IMO. This case highlights that.

 

[Adonia]

because a suspect was able to free himself from two LEO's,

A sad commentary on those two LEO's in my opinion that they were not able to subdue one man. One man get's defeated, but two? My thing is wrestling, but If I had chosen LE as a career, I would have trained relentlessly in unarmed combat. One of the martial arts like Judo, Karate - something to give me the edge in these type of situations.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

A sad commentary on those two LEO's in my opinion that they were not able to subdue one man. One man get's defeated, but two? My thing is wrestling, but If I had chosen LE as a career, I would have trained relentlessly in unarmed combat. One of the martial arts like Judo, Karate - something to give me the edge in these type of situations.

I've been in fights as an unbeliever back in time. Two almost always beat one. Just weird a sleepy drunk beats two officers and steals one's weapon. All while being tazed.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

A sad commentary on those two LEO's in my opinion that they were not able to subdue one man. One man get's defeated, but two? My thing is wrestling, but If I had chosen LE as a career, I would have trained relentlessly in unarmed combat. One of the martial arts like Judo, Karate - something to give me the edge in these type of situations.

I've been in fights as an unbeliever back in time. Two almost always beat one. Just weird a sleepy drunk beats two officers and steals one's weapon. All while being tazed.

Chokeholds can give great advantage.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I found this statute on the use of force by law enforcement in Georgia.

(b) Sheriffs and peace officers who are appointed or employed in conformity with Chapter 8 of Title 35 may use deadly force to apprehend a suspected felon only when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect possesses a deadly weapon or any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury; when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect poses an immediate threat of physical violence to the officer or others; or when there is probable cause to believe that the suspect has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm. Nothing in this Code section shall be construed so as to restrict such sheriffs or peace officers from the use of such reasonable nondeadly force as may be necessary to apprehend and arrest a suspected felon or misdemeanant.

2010 Georgia Code :: TITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE :: CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS :: ARTICLE 2 - ARREST BY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS GENERALLY :: § 17-4-20 - Authorization of arrests with and without warrants generally; use of deadly force; adoption or promulgation of conflicting regulations, policies, ordinances, and resolutions; authority of nuclear power facility security officer

Ok, this leaves only one question. Is a taser, when used offensively, a weapon that can inflict serious harm?

I found tasers are considered to cause serious bodily harm when used offensively.

Using a stun gun or Taser might also carry felony charges under other statutes that don’t specifically mention these electrical weapons. For instance, it’s considered aggravated assault when the crime is carried out with a deadly weapon or any device that causes or is likely to cause serious bodily injury when used offensively. Also, armed robbery involves using an offensive weapon to forcibly take property away from someone. The Georgia Supreme Court has recognized that stun guns and Tasers may be considered offensive weapons that are likely to result in serious bodily injury, depending on how they’re used (Harwell v. State, 512 S.E.2d 892 (Ga. Sup. Ct. 1999)).

Stun Gun Laws in Georgia

However, the perpetrator was shot in the back after discharging his taser, but given everything happened in seconds. The officer was likely justified to use deadly force.

That said, this was lawful, but training needs to change IMO.