A Dispensationalist View of Calvinism

[JD731]

Our Lord Jesus Christ began to instruct his disciples at the very end of the previous age, when he came to fulfill all the OT prophesied about him.

Ga 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past (before he sent his Son) unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds (165 = aions);

In Matt 13 Jesus gave a series of seven prophetic parables to describe this age. He likened it to a man sowing his seed in his field. Of course we all know that one sows his crop and then waits for it to ripen, which takes a few months, then he sends his reapers in to the harvest.

In one of his parables he tells of sowing good seed in his field and we find an enemy coming and sowing tares among the wheat. They look nearly identical as they grow in the field but when harvest nears there is no grain produced by the tares and it is easy to see the difference at that time.

When the servants noticed this act of malice early on, they reported it and wondered if they should dig up the tares and this is the instructions from Jesus.

Mt 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

We can see now that the reapers have been busy for a while as the harvest is getting very near. He is gathering these tares into denominations and cults and isms, preparing them for the tribulation fires. When that is accomplished to his satisfaction, the wheat will be gathered into his barn and then the bundles will be burned.

If I were identifying with religious movements like the Reformed denominations that had their beginning in the 16th century, which is certainly towards the end of the season, I would check my fruit bearing status. The enemy, who is the devil, might just have you deceived into believing that you are elect when you are actually just one of many bundles being prepared for the fire. That string that binds the bundle will make it very difficult to escape.

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world <2889>; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world <165>; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world <165>.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Does anyone have eyes to see these great dispensational truths?

 

[Reformed]

You began this thread with a serious error. Dispensationalism is an eschatological view. Calvinism is a soteriological view. In the same way, Covenant Theology is an eschatological view and Arminianism/semi-Pelagianism are soteriological views.

 

[JD731]

You began this thread with a serious error. Dispensationalism is an eschatological view. Calvinism is a soteriological view. In the same way, Covenant Theology is an eschatological view and Arminianism/semi-Pelagianism are soteriological views.

It does not make a difference in the context of the parable. The point is they go into their own bundle.

 

[AustinC]

I honestly have no idea how this parable is somehow an argument for dispensationalism.

Matthew 13:24-43

He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weedsamong the wheat and went away. So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. And the servantsof the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’” He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his field. It is the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is larger than all the garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches.” He told them another parable. “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven that a woman took and hid in three measures of flour, till it was all leavened.” All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable. This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world.” Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

 

[JD731]

I honestly have no idea how this parable is somehow an argument for dispensationalism.

Matthew 13:24-43

He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weedsamong the wheat and went away. So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. And the servantsof the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’” He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his field. It is the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is larger than all the garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches.” He told them another parable. “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven that a woman took and hid in three measures of flour, till it was all leavened.” All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable. This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world.” Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

I know, this is the reason I bring it up.

Remember where we are in time during the physical ministry of Jesus to his own, Judah and Israel. It is the fulness of the time (Ga 4:4), the last days of the age, (Hebrews 1:1) It is the time that Messiah has come to fulfill all that is written of him in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the Psalms (Lk 24:44). It is harvest time. It is the end of the law. (Rom 4:4). It is time for the kingdom of God to be established on the earth (Matt 4:17).
37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;
38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

Matthew 1-12 is Jesus preaching to his own that the kingdom of heaven is at hand but here is how the laborers responded to him.
Mt 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

In chapter 13 we learn the response of God to them during the following age, this present age. Ga 1:4


Matt 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast [him] out of the vineyard, and slew [him].
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out [his] vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

1 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and [my] fatlings [are] killed, and all things [are] ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of [it], and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated [them] spitefully, and slew [them].
7 But when the king heard [thereof], he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

There was a very small harvest of the previous age.

 

[AustinC]

I know, this is the reason I bring it up.

Remember where we are in time during the physical ministry of Jesus to his own, Judah and Israel. It is the fulness of the time (Ga 4:4), the last days of the age, (Hebrews 1:1) It is the time that Messiah has come to fulfill all that is written of him in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the Psalms (Lk 24:44). It is harvest time. It is the end of the law. (Rom 4:4). It is time for the kingdom of God to be established on the earth (Matt 4:17).
37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;
38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

Matthew 1-12 is Jesus preaching to his own that the kingdom of heaven is at hand but here is how the laborers responded to him.
Mt 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

In chapter 13 we learn the response of God to them during the following age, this present age. Ga 1:4


Matt 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast [him] out of the vineyard, and slew [him].
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out [his] vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

1 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and [my] fatlings [are] killed, and all things [are] ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of [it], and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated [them] spitefully, and slew [them].
7 But when the king heard [thereof], he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

There was a very small harvest of the previous age.

Can you share with us the Covenants that God made with man and tell us if they are limited in time or if they go on into eternity?

Where does God express dispensationalism in any of the parables you quote? Remember, I spent most of my life in dispensationalism and never once did anyone in that camp ever take the verses you are using and try to make a dispensational argument from them. @Reformed is correct in pointing out your own personal confusion.

 

[Marooncat79]

Our Lord Jesus Christ began to instruct his disciples at the very end of the previous age, when he came to fulfill all the OT prophesied about him.

Ga 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past (before he sent his Son) unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds (165 = aions);

In Matt 13 Jesus gave a series of seven prophetic parables to describe this age. He likened it to a man sowing his seed in his field. Of course we all know that one sows his crop and then waits for it to ripen, which takes a few months, then he sends his reapers in to the harvest.

In one of his parables he tells of sowing good seed in his field and we find an enemy coming and sowing tares among the wheat. They look nearly identical as they grow in the field but when harvest nears there is no grain produced by the tares and it is easy to see the difference at that time.

When the servants noticed this act of malice early on, they reported it and wondered if they should dig up the tares and this is the instructions from Jesus.

Mt 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

We can see now that the reapers have been busy for a while as the harvest is getting very near. He is gathering these tares into denominations and cults and isms, preparing them for the tribulation fires. When that is accomplished to his satisfaction, the wheat will be gathered into his barn and then the bundles will be burned.

If I were identifying with religious movements like the Reformed denominations that had their beginning in the 16th century, which is certainly towards the end of the season, I would check my fruit bearing status. The enemy, who is the devil, might just have you deceived into believing that you are elect when you are actually just one of many bundles being prepared for the fire. That string that binds the bundle will make it very difficult to escape.

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world <2889>; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world <165>; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world <165>.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Does anyone have eyes to see these great dispensational truths?

There are many dispensations lists who are Calvinists

start with John MacArthur

 

[JD731]

Can you share with us the Covenants that God made with man and tell us if they are limited in time or if they go on into eternity?

Where does God express dispensationalism in any of the parables you quote? Remember, I spent most of my life in dispensationalism and never once did anyone in that camp ever take the verses you are using and try to make a dispensational argument from them. @Reformed is correct in pointing out your own personal confusion.

The title of my thread is purposely, a "dispensalionalist," (which I am one) view of Calvinism. I am setting the stage for what I think Calvinism is. It is a leaven in this age that the enemy of Christianity has spread in the loaf and it is corruption. The teachers of this movement are tares in the field along with many other tares. Calvinism, in my dispensationalist view, is teaching another Jesus that does not agree with what my KJV bible says about him. In fact, I have found very little in the teaching of Calvinism that is true and biblical. It is not a slight disagreement with Christians on the great doctrines of the faith, it is out and out false doctrines. Calvinism and Calvinists do not believe the word of God in the context of which it is written. They make up doctrines and then whine when they are called on them. They attempt to shame Christians into accepting them as Christians even though they skew nearly every single doctrine in the scriptures and present us with some of the silliest things the mind can imagine, like total depravity as they explain it, and then consider themselves the sharpest knife in the drawer for thinking of them.

And, I don't care if your brand of dispensationalism does not see the great pivot points in the scripture because I don't believe you were ever a dispensationalist by conviction, though you might have flown under the flag. Dispensationalists believes the words of scripture and honors context, and that is dead sure not true of Calvinists. Calvinism is as good as men can do to understand the scriptures without the Spirit of God to teach them.


One definition of dispensation
Dispensation is defined as special permission to not have to follow a rule or to not be bound by a particular code of behavior.
Another;
Exemption from a rule or usual requirement.

Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: (the you-ward is gentile-ward)
Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you (gentiles), to fulfil the word of God;

The Jewish Christains in the first century were still observing certain parts of the law as a matter of conscience and preference, which was not wrong.

However, as the law applied to gentiles it could not be made a test of salvation as was attempted in my historical example below. The Christian era with gentiles is a dispensation and because there were no laws given, it was a dispensation of grace.

40 AD
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Acts 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and [of] the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Why did James bring up the restoration of the Israel economy here with this question? It is because of a dispensation according to the definitions I posted. At a point of time in the future it is assumed by the text that Israel will once again be governed under her own laws but it will be after he has finished taking from the gentiles a people for his name.

I do not know if I will get in trouble for saying I believe the Reformed faith should have been marked and rejected as Christian and put in the cult category as soon as it began, but that is what I believe about it.

Matthew 13 is a prophesy of Jesus Christ concerning this entire age when he is building his church. It is the kingdom in mystery form and Paul is chosen to reveal the mysteries.

Can you share with us the Covenants that God made with man and tell us if they are limited in time or if they go on into eternity?

Read the last two chapters of Revelation and it will answer your question.

 

[JD731]

There are many dispensations lists who are Calvinists

start with John MacArthur

He is an apologetic dispensationalist. It seems he apologizes for what he believes because he wants a certain fellowship. I have no confidence in John MacArthur.

 

[AustinC]

The title of my thread is purposely, a "dispensalionalist," (which I am one) view of Calvinism. I am setting the stage for what I think Calvinism is. It is a leaven in this age that the enemy of Christianity has spread in the loaf and it is corruption. The teachers of this movement are tares in the field along with many other tares. Calvinism, in my dispensationalist view, is teaching another Jesus that does not agree with what my KJV bible says about him. In fact, I have found very little in the teaching of Calvinism that is true and biblical. It is not a slight disagreement with Christians on the great doctrines of the faith, it is out and out false doctrines. Calvinism and Calvinists do not believe the word of God in the context of which it is written. They make up doctrines and then whine when they are called on them. They attempt to shame Christians into accepting them as Christians even though they skew nearly every single doctrine in the scriptures and present us with some of the silliest things the mind can imagine, like total depravity as they explain it, and then consider themselves the sharpest knife in the drawer for thinking of them.

And, I don't care if your brand of dispensationalism does not see the great pivot points in the scripture because I don't believe you were ever a dispensationalist by conviction, though you might have flown under the flag. Dispensationalists believes the words of scripture and honors context, and that is dead sure not true of Calvinists. Calvinism is as good as men can do to understand the scriptures without the Spirit of God to teach them.


One definition of dispensation
Dispensation is defined as special permission to not have to follow a rule or to not be bound by a particular code of behavior.
Another;
Exemption from a rule or usual requirement.

Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: (the you-ward is gentile-ward)
Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you (gentiles), to fulfil the word of God;

The Jewish Christains in the first century were still observing certain parts of the law as a matter of conscience and preference, which was not wrong.

However, as the law applied to gentiles it could not be made a test of salvation as was attempted in my historical example below. The Christian era with gentiles is a dispensation and because there were no laws given, it was a dispensation of grace.

40 AD
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Acts 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and [of] the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Why did James bring up the restoration of the Israel economy here with this question? It is because of a dispensation according to the definitions I posted. At a point of time in the future it is assumed by the text that Israel will once again be governed under her own laws but it will be after he has finished taking from the gentiles a people for his name.

I do not know if I will get in trouble for saying I believe the Reformed faith should have been marked and rejected as Christian and put in the cult category as soon as it began, but that is what I believe about it.

Matthew 13 is a prophesy of Jesus Christ concerning this entire age when he is building his church. It is the kingdom in mystery form and Paul is chosen to reveal the mysteries.



Read the last two chapters of Revelation and it will answer your question.

You are confused. As @Marooncat79 stated, there are many dispensationalists who are Calvinists. @Reformed explained your confusion in post #2. Calvinism is about salvation while dispensationalism is about how God functions throughout time. The variant with dispensationalism is not Calvinism, but it is with Covenant theology where the disagreement lies.
Dispensationalism is a young view. Covenant theology is over 2000 years old. You need to understand Covenant theology if you want to argue for Dispensationalism.

Finally, your parables have nothing to do with dispensationalism which means you aren't even addressing what your topic intends to address. The conclusion is that you are thoroughly confused.

 

[Marooncat79]

He is an apologetic dispensationalist. It seems he apologizes for what he believes because he wants a certain fellowship. I have no confidence in John MacArthur.

Donald G Barnhouse?

 

[Marooncat79]

You have obviously never read John MacArthur

to say what you said shows your lack of understanding

he is probably the best known Dispensationalist in America over the past 40 yrs

 

[kyredneck]

what I think Calvinism is. It is a leaven in this age that the enemy of Christianity has spread in the loaf and it is corruption. The teachers of this movement are tares in the field along with many other tares. Calvinism, in my dispensationalist view, is teaching another Jesus that does not agree with what my KJV bible says about him.

So, you're not only questioning the salvation of a great many members on this board, but you are also saying that they are children of the devil. FWIW, I'm reporting the OP.

 

[JD731]

You are confused. As @Marooncat79 stated, there are many dispensationalists who are Calvinists. @Reformed explained your confusion in post #2. Calvinism is about salvation while dispensationalism is about how God functions throughout time. The variant with dispensationalism is not Calvinism, but it is with Covenant theology where the disagreement lies.
Dispensationalism is a young view. Covenant theology is over 2000 years old. You need to understand Covenant theology if you want to argue for Dispensationalism.

Finally, your parables have nothing to do with dispensationalism which means you aren't even addressing what your topic intends to address. The conclusion is that you are thoroughly confused.

there are many dispensationalists who are Calvinists.

There are a few. There are not many.

explained your confusion in post #2. Calvinism is about salvation while dispensationalism is about how God functions throughout time. The variant with dispensationalism is not Calvinism, but it is with Covenant theology where the disagreement lies.

There would not be a covenant theology without Calvinism. Also, one cannot compartmentalize the doctrines of the faith, as you suggest.

Finally, your parables have nothing to do with dispensationalism which means you aren't even addressing what your topic intends to address. The conclusion is that you are thoroughly confused.

What do they have to do with? Your charge only demonstrates that what I said earlier is true. A false religious system can only obscure the truth, it cannot reveal it. Jesus said he is making known things that were previously hidden from the foundation of the world and kept secret while at the same time hiding them from these wicked religious leaders of Israel, whom he has cursed for their denial of his person and work at harvest time. He is hiding this truth in the parables that he begins to speak because of their rejection of him on behalf of the nation. He says he is going to sow a new crop and he gives us the characteristics of the whole growing season, planting to reaping, and tells us there are going to be many tares in the field, sown there by the enemy, who is the devil. The history of the last two thousand years has shown the Jesus hit the nail squarely on the head and it has been even as he has said.

Matt 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them

There must be a divine teacher present to make known his mysteries and secret things. The natural man has no divine teacher.

 

[JD731]

So, you're not only questioning the salvation of a great many members on this board, but you are also saying that they are children of the devil. FWIW, I'm reporting the OP.

Actually I am not questioning the salvation of anyone. To determine who is saved is above my pay grade. I do know that the field is the world in this parable of the tares and wheat. I do know that the wheat that has been sown in the field are children of God and the tares are the children of the wicked one. I do know that the Lord is content to allow them to grow together for the sake of the harvest but that he is bundling the tares together to be burned after the wheat is harvested out of the field. If there is wheat in the reformed churches it will not be bundled with the tares but will be gathered with the rest of the wheat and taken to the barn. That is what we are told.

When I posted this op and wrote my commentary I understood the risk of telling the truth. But it needs to be told. My personal opinion of Calvinism is that it is a cult and should be identified as such. There is no agreement between Calvinists and so called Arminians on the person and work of Christ or any other doctrine in the scriptures. They, the Calvinists and Arminians, are presenting a different Jesus from one another and both of them cannot save. This is a logical, a reasonable, and a biblical conclusion.

So do what you need to do and let the chips fall.

 

[AustinC]

Actually I am not questioning the salvation of anyone. To determine who is saved is above my pay grade. I do know that the field is the world in this parable of the tares and wheat. I do know that the wheat that has been sown in the field are children of God and the tares are the children of the wicked one. I do know that the Lord is content to allow them to grow together for the sake of the harvest but that he is bundling the tares together to be burned after the wheat is harvested out of the field. If there is wheat in the reformed churches it will not be bundled with the tares but will be gathered with the rest of the wheat and taken to the barn. That is what we are told.

When I posted this op and wrote my commentary I understood the risk of telling the truth. But it needs to be told. My personal opinion of Calvinism is that it is a cult and should be identified as such. There is no agreement between Calvinists and so called Arminians on the person and work of Christ or any other doctrine in the scriptures. They, the Calvinists and Arminians, are presenting a different Jesus from one another and both of them cannot save. This is a logical, a reasonable, and a biblical conclusion.

So do what you need to do and let the chips fall.

So, your topic title is false.
What you really are saying in your topic title is: "JD's uninformed opinion of Calvinism, based upon zero biblical information, yet supposedly the only view that God holds."

JD, Covenant theology is what all the Apostles and early church fathers held. You cannot find Dispensationalism until it pops up in the United States during the mid 1800s. And you have now called every Christian who ever existed, before the mid 1800s, a cult member.
I can conclude two things.
1) You are incredibly ignorant and uninformed

2) Your ignorance has bred pride that now declares all persons who hold a view different than yours to be cult members.

JD, in truth, you have lost all credibility with this thread. You should just ask the moderators to shut down this thread and you should go back to the Bible and read it objectively, without any bias. When you are done, in a few years, come back with your report. Right now, you just don't know what you are talking about. You will look back on this thread and cringe at yourself.

 

[JD731]

So, your topic title is false.
What you really are saying in your topic title is: "JD's uninformed opinion of Calvinism, based upon zero biblical information, yet supposedly the only view that God holds."

JD, Covenant theology is what all the Apostles and early church fathers held. You cannot find Dispensationalism until it pops up in the United States during the mid 1800s. And you have now called every Christian who ever existed, before the mid 1800s, a cult member.
I can conclude two things.
1) You are incredibly ignorant and uninformed

2) Your ignorance has bred pride that now declares all persons who hold a view different than yours to be cult members.

JD, in truth, you have lost all credibility with this thread. You should just ask the moderators to shut down this thread and you should go back to the Bible and read it objectively, without any bias. When you are done, in a few years, come back with your report. Right now, you just don't know what you are talking about. You will look back on this thread and cringe at yourself.

AustinC, you are wrong about everything you have said, especially about who is proud. You fellows parade yourselves on these forums boasting that you have a special pre world election of God and for the poor unfortunate sinner who does not share your special status, and whom God hates and is anxious to cast in to an eternal hell without any possibility for redemption, sorry about your luck.

Someone is going to have to pay for presenting God like Calvinism and Reformation believers do. If you believe your representation of God is true then you should be willing to mark others who present him differently. It is not okay to create ones own God. There are fundamental differences in how a person is redeemed from one religion to another. Go back and read all the topics on this Calvinism/ Arminian forum and you will see there is no agreement between the two on any topic. How can you claim every one is believing in the same Jesus?

Dispensationalists, like myself, believes the prophecies of the Lord Jesus Christ concerning this age that he unfolds in Matt 13 and we know there are tares sown in the field with the good seed by the enemy and they will grow together and be separated before the harvest. They are mysteries because they are nowhere spoken of in the OT scriptures. This is brand new information and it is given immediately after Israel committed the unpardonable sin in Matt 12.

As far as I can tell Calvinism does not even have a belief in a personal devil.

 

[AustinC]

AustinC, you are wrong about everything you have said, especially about who is proud. You fellows parade yourselves on these forums boasting that you have a special pre world election of God and for the poor unfortunate sinner who does not share your special status, and whom God hates and is anxious to cast in to an eternal hell without any possibility for redemption, sorry about your luck.

Someone is going to have to pay for presenting God like Calvinism and Reformation believers do. If you believe your representation of God is true then you should be willing to mark others who present him differently. It is not okay to create ones own God. There are fundamental differences in how a person is redeemed from one religion to another. Go back and read all the topics on this Calvinism/ Arminian forum and you will see there is no agreement between the two on any topic. How can you claim every one is believing in the same Jesus?

Dispensationalists, like myself, believes the prophecies of the Lord Jesus Christ concerning this age that he unfolds in Matt 13 and we know there are tares sown in the field with the good seed by the enemy and they will grow together and be separated before the harvest. They are mysteries because they are nowhere spoken of in the OT scriptures. This is brand new information and it is given immediately after Israel committed the unpardonable sin in Matt 12.

As far as I can tell Calvinism does not even have a belief in a personal devil.

First, did you not say Calvinism is a cult and it's soteriology is not biblical, going so far as to say that all Calvinists are unsaved? I believe that is what you told me. Therefore, if you say I am wrong, then you make yourself a liar.

Second, where do you find anyone "boasting" about election? You realize that, except for the amazing grace of God, not one person would ever be saved. Not one. Therefore, election is an intensely humbling doctrine, showing us that with man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible. How do you miss this fact?

God hates sin. Where does any Calvinist say that God is eager to cast sinners into hell? If that were the case then God would display no mercy to any sinner. If that were true, humanity would not exist on earth. Humans would be extinct.

When I quote Romans 1- Romans 11 and specifically Romans 9, do you imagine that I must "pay" for stating what God states? In Romans 9, Paul quotes from the Mosaic law when he says about God "I will have mercy upon whom I will have mercy and I will harden whom I will harden." JD, do you want to just throw away most of the Bible so that your personal opinion can be correct? That is what you would have to do.

At present, you have quoted a couple parables that have nothing to do with the subject of Calvinism or dispensationalism. You have plucked two verses out of context and said that the KJV use of the English word "dispensation" makes Covenant theology invalid. You have rejected over 2000 years of theology, held by Christians worldwide, to demand that a US created theory from the mid 1800s must be the only true doctrine of the Bible.

Look in the mirror and see who is forcing God into their own image. Hint: It isn't Calvinists.

You are correct we don't agree. Based upon what you have provided I would say the reason is mostly because you just don't know what you are talking about and are rather poorly read in the Bible. I welcome you picking any passage in the Bible and we can interpret that passage in its context to see what God is teaching. We can observe the passage, ask questions about it, interpret the passage and make application. It would be a great exercise. Pick any passage. I welcome it.

 

[JD731]

First, did you not say Calvinism is a cult and it's soteriology is not biblical, going so far as to say that all Calvinists are unsaved? I believe that is what you told me. Therefore, if you say I am wrong, then you make yourself a liar.

Second, where do you find anyone "boasting" about election? You realize that, except for the amazing grace of God, not one person would ever be saved. Not one. Therefore, election is an intensely humbling doctrine, showing us that with man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible. How do you miss this fact?

God hates sin. Where does any Calvinist say that God is eager to cast sinners into hell? If that were the case then God would display no mercy to any sinner. If that were true, humanity would not exist on earth. Humans would be extinct.

When I quote Romans 1- Romans 11 and specifically Romans 9, do you imagine that I must "pay" for stating what God states? In Romans 9, Paul quotes from the Mosaic law when he says about God "I will have mercy upon whom I will have mercy and I will harden whom I will harden." JD, do you want to just throw away most of the Bible so that your personal opinion can be correct? That is what you would have to do.

At present, you have quoted a couple parables that have nothing to do with the subject of Calvinism or dispensationalism. You have plucked two verses out of context and said that the KJV use of the English word "dispensation" makes Covenant theology invalid. You have rejected over 2000 years of theology, held by Christians worldwide, to demand that a US created theory from the mid 1800s must be the only true doctrine of the Bible.

Look in the mirror and see who is forcing God into their own image. Hint: It isn't Calvinists.

You are correct we don't agree. Based upon what you have provided I would say the reason is mostly because you just don't know what you are talking about and are rather poorly read in the Bible. I welcome you picking any passage in the Bible and we can interpret that passage in its context to see what God is teaching. We can observe the passage, ask questions about it, interpret the passage and make application. It would be a great exercise. Pick any passage. I welcome it.

Second, where do you find anyone "boasting" about election? You realize that, except for the amazing grace of God, not one person would ever be saved. Not one. Therefore, election is an intensely humbling doctrine, showing us that with man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible. How do you miss this fact?

A statement like this assumes that everyone reading it is somehow brain dead. To find out (however that happened) that you are in a very small number of people who has ever lived whom God has selected to save while everyone else has been selected to die eternally is intensely humbling? Who would make such a foolish statement? If I am allowed to continue here I will start a thread and ask who believes that being elected to be saved and to live forever in eternal bliss while most of the world goes to hell is something that is intensely humbling and see what kind of answers I get.

I know who would not rejoice with you. Those who are going to hell without any hope of going anywhere else. I have never met the first Calvinist who does not believe he is elect. Elect Calvinists are the only people on this forum who exalts the doctrine of election before the foundation of the world with some sort of specialized calling to be saved, maybe when one is in a sound sleep or is somehow preoccupied with the normal living of life.

Here is what God says in a statement that cannot be misunderstood.

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

The person who is being addressed is the Lord Jesus.

What does it take to please him?

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Now let's use logic and reason. Assuming that everyone believes Re 4:11 and He 11:6 and Jesus Christ really did create all things for his pleasure and it takes faith to please him, then it is he who is responsible before the foundation of the world for those who do not please him, according to Calvinism, because he has elected way back then not to save them and has not given them faith, which Calvinists say is the gift of God. If it is a gift and he is in possession of it, he can give it to whomsoever he wills

I will start my thread soon to see who believes the super ridiculous statement that being a Calvinist is an intensely humbling experience..

 

[JesusFan]

You began this thread with a serious error. Dispensationalism is an eschatological view. Calvinism is a soteriological view. In the same way, Covenant Theology is an eschatological view and Arminianism/semi-Pelagianism are soteriological views.

indeed, see Dr MacArthur!