A Dispensationalist View of Calvinism

[Van]

If your dog died because he broke the law and died, he couldn't hear any call...except for one call. It's the same call that Lazarus heard when he was dead in the womb. Jesus, God Almighty, called out and said "Lazerus, come forth."
God never gives us the list of who he is going to call and give them life from death. God only tells us to go and preach the gospel. We obey God, and we don't question why he commands us to be ambassadors of reconciliation when he knows exactly who he is going to choose.

You are speaking falsehood when you say Calvinism rewrites scripture. There is no changed word.

Our difference is purely in the fact that you lift up humans as the main reason for salvation when you read the Bible while I lift up God as the main reason for salvation. When you read the word "faith" you point to man. When I read the word "faith" I point to God. Neither of us change the words of the Bible. We, instead, look at salvation in different ways. You look at man, man, man, God. I look at God, God, God, man.

Note the endless fiction posted to defend the false doctrines of Calvinism.
Many are called does not say many receive the general call and not the effectual call. That is a Calvinist rewrite.
Many are called means many are called.
But few are chosen means God uses some criteria or conditional to choose the few. Thus Calvinism is false doctrine.
Then the out and out falsehood saying I say "humans are the main reason for salvation." Will any moderator protect truth. After all I have posted more than two dozen times, Romans 9:16 that says salvation does NOT depend on the person who wills or does things to be saved, but upon God.

 

[AustinC]

Note the endless fiction posted to defend the false doctrines of Calvinism.
Many are called does not say many receive the general call and not the effectual call. That is a Calvinist rewrite.
Many are called means many are called.
But few are chosen means God uses some criteria or conditional to choose the few. Thus Calvinism is false doctrine.
Then the out and out falsehood saying I say "humans are the main reason for salvation." Will any moderator protect truth. After all I have posted more than two dozen times, Romans 9:16 that says salvation does NOT depend on the person who wills or does things to be saved, but upon God.

I rewrote about your rewrite about your dog dying???

Van, you promote a person's faith as the means of election, adoption, and justification. When called out on your man-centered theology, you cry foul. It is your modus operandi.

When you quote Romans 9:16 you always couch it in a twist. You do this, I believe, because you know that is the only way you can make your man-centered theology make sense to you.

You are crying out for a moderator to take your side. A good moderator will let you hang yourself by your own words. I have not changed any words you say. I have not edited out any post. I let you get all twisted up in your own failed doctrine and I point it out to you.

 

[Van]

I rewrote about your rewrite about your dog dying???

Van, you promote a person's faith as the means of election, adoption, and justification. When called out on your man-centered theology, you cry foul. It is your modus operandi.

When you quote Romans 9:16 you always couch it in a twist. You do this, I believe, because you know that is the only way you can make your man-centered theology make sense to you.

You are crying out for a moderator to take your side. A good moderator will let you hang yourself by your own words. I have not changed any words you say. I have not edited out any post. I let you get all twisted up in your own failed doctrine and I point it out to you.

Yet another totally off topic personal attack by a Calvinist. Go figure.

 

[AustinC]

Yet another totally off topic personal attack by a Calvinist. Go figure.

LOL

 

[timtofly]

By your assertion these are the two views of God (theology) that you assert.
1) Universalism
2) Human will is superior,over and above God's will.

Universalism is that all humans have been atoned for by Jesus sacrifice (that is what you are claiming when you assert universal election).

Nope, God's election is not universalism just because God did provide the Atonement for all.

"In 1899 the Universalist General Convention, later called the Universalist Church of America, adopted the Five Principles: the belief in God, belief in Jesus Christ, the immortality of the human soul, that sinful actions have consequence, and universal reconciliation."

God will not automatically reconcile every descendent of Adam. God has elected that all be under the Atonement. God does not force the Atonement on any one.

You are saying God is a failure because He cannot force humans to accept the Atonement.

What verse in Scripture states God forces 10% of humanity to be Atoned since before Creation?

Why is rejection of God's Atonement forcing one's will over God, when God is not doing any forcing in the opposite direction?

No human is forcing God to not die on the Cross in 30AD. No human is forcing God to die on the Cross in 30AD. Literally no human is forcing God to act in any way. Or not act at all.

God is not willing that any should perish. That is Scripture. Yet people are constantly perishing against God's Will. That is based solely on the fact that God literally forced sin on all of Adam's flesh and blood. So accepting the Atonement would in itself force God to remove sin, which He is already willing to do, because He already did. Humans do not force God to let them sin. Nor do they force God to be the Atonement for sin. Nor do they force God when they of their own free will accept the Atonement.

What part of being a sinner makes human free will superior to God's Will?

What part of Accepting the free gift of Atonement makes human free will superior to God's Will?

What part of freely being able to accept (choose) what God freely offers without coercion makes human will superior to God's Will?

But even 2 Corinthians 5:19 states:

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."

How do you reconcile that God has both condemned all sinners to punishment, while also reconciling the world unto Himself?

It does not even say the elect. It says the world. Is not world universal? Reconciliation is ongoing. The Atonement was declared accomplished before creation.

I do not advocate that every single human will be redeemed. Because God will remove many names from the Lamb's book of life. That will only happen after all 7 Seals are removed by the Lamb. The Second Coming happens before the 7th Seal is removed.

 

[Van]

Note the endless fiction posted to defend the false doctrines of Calvinism.
Many are called does not say many receive the general call and not the effectual call. That is a Calvinist rewrite.
Many are called means many are called.
But few are chosen means God uses some criteria or conditional to choose the few. Thus Calvinism is false doctrine.
Then the out and out falsehood saying I say "humans are the main reason for salvation." Will any moderator protect truth. After all I have posted more than two dozen times, Romans 9:16 that says salvation does NOT depend on the person who wills or does things to be saved, but upon God.

Calvinism says Christ did not die as a ransom for all. But God's word does!
Calvinism says God's election for salvation is unconditional. But God's word says we are chosen through faith in the truth.
Calvinism says the lost cannot put their faith in Christ, but God's word does!

On and on folks, John 3:16 actually means what it says, everybody believing into Christ will not perish but have everlasting life.

 

[JD731]

Note the endless fiction posted to defend the false doctrines of Calvinism.
Many are called does not say many receive the general call and not the effectual call. That is a Calvinist rewrite.
Many are called means many are called.
But few are chosen means God uses some criteria or conditional to choose the few. Thus Calvinism is false doctrine.
Then the out and out falsehood saying I say "humans are the main reason for salvation." Will any moderator protect truth. After all I have posted more than two dozen times, Romans 9:16 that says salvation does NOT depend on the person who wills or does things to be saved, but upon God.

Calvinism says Christ did not die as a ransom for all. But God's word does!
Calvinism says God's election for salvation is unconditional. But God's word says we are chosen through faith in the truth.
Calvinism says the lost cannot put their faith in Christ, but God's word does!

On and on folks, John 3:16 actually means what it says, everybody believing into Christ will not perish but have everlasting life.

That's right, Van.
The scripture says in Romans 4 that Abraham 's justification was by faith <now get this> THAT IT MIGHT BE BY GRACE!

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace.

He had said;

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith

And you are right again when you say the Reformed does not see a condition in passages that have conditions all over the place. Just look at this in this same chapter and in the time frame you and I live in. Look!

21 And (Abraham) being fully persuaded that, what he (God the Father) had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it (his believing) was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it (righteousness) was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, <now get this> if we believe on him <God the Father> that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead <see Ga 1:1>;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

IOW, it is obvious that we did not believe the same thing Abraham believed because he did not even know the name of the Son of God like we do, but he believed the same God who promised him.

THE POINT IS THAT ALL MEN EVERYWHERE AND IN EVERY TIME ARE JUSTIFIED BY BELIEVING WHAT GOD SAYS TO THEM! It is God who justifies, but it is Jesus that saves the soul. It is the Spirit who is life and when he is in the body of the justified believer, he is the life of God and is the life of the believer. We are told that unequivocally in Romans 8 this great truth. Look;

Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

There is not a Reformed believer alive today who will believe what I just quoted from the scriptures.

A sinner can be justified by God without being saved by Jesus Christ, and all who are saved have been so justified, BUT, No one can be saved by Jesus Christ without being justified, because the Spirit of God is given as the gift of God when a sinner believes in Jesus Christ for his salvation. If you who are reading this does not believe it, then you do not believe this quote below concerning the Spirit of God, who gives eternal life to the one he indwells because he is life and he will never leave us nor forsake us.

Ga 1:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Abraham was justified by faith before he had the Spirit. He simply believed God. No one ever had the gift of the Spirit to indwell them eternally until Jesus died and rose again.

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Now, look at this Van. Grace of God the Father is accessed <now get this> by faith. Look.

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

There are PhD,s, many of them, who are Reformed. They are all wrong about God, every one of them.This proves that truth is not taught by men who have not been taught by God.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[Marooncat79]

There is soooo much wrong with the previous post.


It’s amazing

 

[JD731]

There is soooo much wrong with the previous post.


It’s amazing

There may be much wrong compared to Calvinism but no one can say I am misquoting the scriptures. I am quoting what they say.

 

[Marooncat79]

A sinner can be justified by God without being saved by Jesus Christ,

Absolutely NOT

 

[AustinC]

Nope, God's election is not universalism just because God did provide the Atonement for all.

"In 1899 the Universalist General Convention, later called the Universalist Church of America, adopted the Five Principles: the belief in God, belief in Jesus Christ, the immortality of the human soul, that sinful actions have consequence, and universal reconciliation."

God will not automatically reconcile every descendent of Adam. God has elected that all be under the Atonement. God does not force the Atonement on any one.

You are saying God is a failure because He cannot force humans to accept the Atonement.

What verse in Scripture states God forces 10% of humanity to be Atoned since before Creation?

Why is rejection of God's Atonement forcing one's will over God, when God is not doing any forcing in the opposite direction?

No human is forcing God to not die on the Cross in 30AD. No human is forcing God to die on the Cross in 30AD. Literally no human is forcing God to act in any way. Or not act at all.

God is not willing that any should perish. That is Scripture. Yet people are constantly perishing against God's Will. That is based solely on the fact that God literally forced sin on all of Adam's flesh and blood. So accepting the Atonement would in itself force God to remove sin, which He is already willing to do, because He already did. Humans do not force God to let them sin. Nor do they force God to be the Atonement for sin. Nor do they force God when they of their own free will accept the Atonement.

What part of being a sinner makes human free will superior to God's Will?

What part of Accepting the free gift of Atonement makes human free will superior to God's Will?

What part of freely being able to accept (choose) what God freely offers without coercion makes human will superior to God's Will?

But even 2 Corinthians 5:19 states:

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."

How do you reconcile that God has both condemned all sinners to punishment, while also reconciling the world unto Himself?

It does not even say the elect. It says the world. Is not world universal? Reconciliation is ongoing. The Atonement was declared accomplished before creation.

I do not advocate that every single human will be redeemed. Because God will remove many names from the Lamb's book of life. That will only happen after all 7 Seals are removed by the Lamb. The Second Coming happens before the 7th Seal is removed.

Are you aware that you are teaching that God sends fully atoned humans to hell, meaning that those made perfect by Jesus are still condemned by God in your theology.

If you say that lack of faith, not the full payment for sin, is the reason people go to hell, then you both deny the full atonement for at least one sin, and you make salvation contingent on human will, not God's saving grace. What you therefore espouse is salvation and damnation by works, which is what the Judaizers in Galatians were teaching.

 

[JD731]

A sinner can be justified by God without being saved by Jesus Christ,

Absolutely NOT

Let's engage in a little exercise. Abraham lived 2000 years before Jesus Christ came into the world. I have already quoted the scriptures saying Abraham was justified by faith. What did Abraham believe? Well, we are taken back to Genesis15 because this is when the text says Abraham was justified by his believing what God said to him. It is stated clearly in Romans 4. Look.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it (= his believing) was counted unto him for righteousness.

I do not know how it could be said with more clarity, but if you can believe it, it is. Look here.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

What member of the trinity is Abraham believing. Answer. It is God. We know him today as "God the Father."

God the Father has imputed Abraham's believing what he said to him for righteousness. When that happened, the ungodly Abraham is no longer guilty because Abraham has committed the act of believing what God said to him. Now, Abraham has the righteousness that God requires of him and he is not guilty in God's eyes. What changed in Abraham that God declared him righteous, according to the text? Answer; He believed what God said to him.

So, there were two actions that took place and one followed the other. First, while in the state of being ungodly, Abraham heard what God said to him and his action was to believe what he heard. Next, God saw that Abraham believed what he said to him and imputed his believing for righteousness and declared him not guilty. A righteous man is not guilty. A man who is declared "justified" is not guilty.

It is important to know right here that this justification did not take Abraham's sins away. The scriptures clearly says that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. It will be two thousand years before the blood of the perfect Lamb of God will die to take away sin. Here is what happened when he came.

Re 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

So, what have we learned. We have learned that God has the power to justify a sinner by the divine act of imputing something that comes from the sinner for righteousness and the sinner can be declared "just." What is it that can be imputed to his account? It is faith. That is what the text tells us.What kind of faith? Believing from the heart. Look here.

Ro 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Ro 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him (in thine heart) shall not be ashamed.

What exactly did Abraham believe? Are we told? The answer is yes, we are told.

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

What was the promise? It was that he and Sarah would have a child. This was made long after Sarah was past childbearing at 90 years old and Abraham was 100 years old. The evidence of Abraham's faith is that Sarah became pregnant and birthed a miraculous son.

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

This is what Abraham believed and the response of God was to impute his faith in what he promised for righteousness.

Now, After Jesus came, we today will not be believing the same thing Abraham believed. We have much more information and we must believe what God says to us. What does he say to us? Here it is. this is what he says to us.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it (faith/righteousness) was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Things are different now. If we believe God, who says he will save us by believing in his Son, Jesus Christ, whom he has raised from the dead, by giving us his actual righteousness to dwell in our bodies, in the person of his Spirit, who is given to us as the gift of God when we believe in him..
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

1Co 1:30 But of him (God the Father) are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

I can show you when Abraham's sin were washed away, because they had to be washed away before he could be in the presence of God. I will do that next as well as showing that grace of declaring a guilty man righteous comes from God after the guilty man believed him. Therefore, it is of faith that it might be by grace.

Logic and reasoning and common sense will correct many errors and bad theology such as the Reformed practices. May the Lord Jesus Christ be high and lifted up and exalted in this conversation.

 

[AustinC]

@JD731 you keep attributing faith to the human being when faith is a gift from God that justifies that person.

When a doctor implants a pace maker/defibrillator into a patient the doctor will ask "how is your pacemaker doing." That pacemaker isn't anything that the person does. It is something that the person has been given that functions to keep that person alive. Yet, we call it "your pacemaker."
This is how faith functions. God gives you faith and then tells you that you are justified by your faith. It is a faith that was implanted into you when God chose to make you alive with Christ. You would be dead without it.

 

[37818]

. . . you keep attributing faith to the human being when faith is a gift from God that justifies that person.

You reduce "faith" to religious beliefs just like an atheist who says she doesn't have any.
Understanding Ayn Rand's Rejection of Faith

 

[JD731]

@JD731 you keep attributing faith to the human being when faith is a gift from God that justifies that person.

When a doctor implants a pace maker/defibrillator into a patient the doctor will ask "how is your pacemaker doing." That pacemaker isn't anything that the person does. It is something that the person has been given that functions to keep that person alive. Yet, we call it "your pacemaker."
This is how faith functions. God gives you faith and then tells you that you are justified by your faith. It is a faith that was implanted into you when God chose to make you alive with Christ. You would be dead without it.

There is a gift of God. We are told plainly what it is.

Ac 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. (the gift of God in this context is the Holy Ghost)
Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (eternal life is the indwelling Holy Ghost)
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (I proved in Rom 4 that God justifies the sinner who believes and gives him righteousness, which in this context is salvation. the context demands it)
2Ti 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands. (the Spirit of God was in Timothy when Paul put his apostles hands on him).

Jesus Christ, who is God in the flesh, did nothing by faith, and he did not have faith, so he did not give faith. Anyone can check me out on this to see if it is true.

The Holy Ghost, God the Spirit, gave gifts to men for ministry in the body of Christ, after he had immersed the believer in the body. They are called spiritual gifts, and among the 12 or so gifts that are mentioned in 1 Cor 12, one of them is called the gift of faith. Notice the context in which this is related;

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.

What one should see here is faith is not a spiritual gift that is given to all the members of the body but to those to whom the Spirit chose to ministered it.

Let's try another place where the Reformed attempts to con the believers;

ROM 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, [let us prophesy] according to the proportion of faith;
7 Or ministry, [let us wait] on [our] ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, [let him do it] with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

The point is that in the body, where all the members are equal and are one, there are ministries that require more influence from God to function. For instance, the ministry of the eye is much more complicated than the pinky, and just because both are in the same body does not mean one can do the ministry of the other.

So the gift of God is salvation, the gift of righteousness, eternal life, the Holy Ghost, the Spirit, Life, Remission of Sins, all synonymns. The one thing that is not the gift of God is faith.

The gifts of the Spirit are many and varied and include faith, but not to all members of the body and certainly not for salvation.

You greatly err, AustinC, along with your Reformed buds, and you refuse to be corrected.

 

[AustinC]

There is a gift of God. We are told plainly what it is.

Ac 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. (the gift of God in this context is the Holy Ghost)
Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (eternal life is the indwelling Holy Ghost)
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (I proved in Rom 4 that God justifies the sinner who believes and gives him righteousness, which in this context is salvation. the context demands it)
2Ti 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands. (the Spirit of God was in Timothy when Paul put his apostles hands on him).

Jesus Christ, who is God in the flesh, did nothing by faith, and he did not have faith, so he did not give faith. Anyone can check me out on this to see if it is true.

The Holy Ghost, God the Spirit, gave gifts to men for ministry in the body of Christ, after he had immersed the believer in the body. They are called spiritual gifts, and among the 12 or so gifts that are mentioned in 1 Cor 12, one of them is called the gift of faith. Notice the context in which this is related;

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.

What one should see here is faith is not a spiritual gift that is given to all the members of the body but to those to whom the Spirit chose to ministered it.

Let's try another place where the Reformed attempts to con the believers;

ROM 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, [let us prophesy] according to the proportion of faith;
7 Or ministry, [let us wait] on [our] ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, [let him do it] with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

The point is that in the body, where all the members are equal and are one, there are ministries that require more influence from God to function. For instance, the ministry of the eye is much more complicated than the pinky, and just because both are in the same body does not mean one can do the ministry of the other.

So the gift of God is salvation, the gift of righteousness, eternal life, the Holy Ghost, the Spirit, Life, Remission of Sins, all synonymns. The one thing that is not the gift of God is faith.

The gifts of the Spirit are many and varied and include faith, but not to all members of the body and certainly not for salvation.

You greatly err, AustinC, along with your Reformed buds, and you refuse to be corrected.

Tell me again how I err greatly...

Hebrews 12:1-2 (ESV)

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

Hebrews 12:1-2 (KJV)

Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

From your reading of these verses, who gives us our faith and completes our faith?

God gives Christians faith. He authors it at our salvation and he finishes it at our glorification.

You have been corrected by many on this board. At this point you simply have your eyes closed.

 

[SovereignGrace]

A sinner can be justified by God without being saved by Jesus Christ,

Absolutely NOT

This is what happens when someone does not realize Yahweh/Jehovah is Christ.

 

[kyredneck]

Jesus the author and finisher of our faith

 

[JD731]

Tell me again how I err greatly...

Hebrews 12:1-2 (ESV)

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

Hebrews 12:1-2 (KJV)

Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

From your reading of these verses, who gives us our faith and completes our faith?

God gives Christians faith. He authors it at our salvation and he finishes it at our glorification.

You have been corrected by many on this board. At this point you simply have your eyes closed.

What I have stated in this thread about the Reformed is correct. Now, here you are again ignoring everything I have said and running to another text where there are key words that you can use out of context and without even being curious as to how and to whom they apply. This is further proof that you do not have a word based faith in God but you are following and promoting a system of religion that most often reverses what God's words actually say. When you say the quote below;

God gives Christians faith. He authors it at our salvation and he finishes it at our glorification.

There is nowhere in all of scripture that says that God gives Christians faith. You made it up but your religion says it and you are promoting your religion. God gives the sinner salvation when he believes. I have shown this and it cannot be misinterpreted by an honest person.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ro 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.



Ac 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

What gift did God give these gentiles Peter?

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

There is no teaching like yours in the scriptures, AustinC. It is time to face the facts and make a move.

 

[AustinC]

What I have stated in this thread about the Reformed is correct. Now, here you are again ignoring everything I have said and running to another text where there are key words that you can use out of context and without even being curious as to how and to whom they apply. This is further proof that you do not have a word based faith in God but you are following and promoting a system of religion that most often reverses what God's words actually say. When you say the quote below;




There is nowhere in all of scripture that says that God gives Christians faith. You made it up but your religion says it and you are promoting your religion. God gives the sinner salvation when he believes. I have shown this and it cannot be misinterpreted by an honest person.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ro 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.



Ac 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

What gift did God give these gentiles Peter?

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

There is no teaching like yours in the scriptures, AustinC. It is time to face the facts and make a move.

Is faith authored by Jesus and finished by Jesus?
If yes, then when is faith authored? Are you teaching that Jesus authors faith while we are dead in our trespasses and sins?

JD, I know you honestly imagine you are correct. Despite no one agreeing with you, you still think you are correct. Let that sink in.