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A Fresh Blossom on the TULIP

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1) Why is it hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God? If Calvinism were true, and it is not, then it would not be hard as the rich or poor would all be conveyed into the kingdom by "irresistible grace." Thus the fact that it is hard for a rich person demonstrates Calvinism is as bogus as a three dollar bill.

Again, Van, you miss the context and your lack of following a basic principle in the thinking of the Jews at that time.

You look at this as “the kingdom of God” to the Jews at that time required salvation through Christ.

Van, that was and remains a foreign concept to the majority of them.

Why do you think the Lord spent time explaining to an Old Jewish Rabbi a leader/teacher of the Jews if the concept of “being saved” was known and taught as it was by the apostles following Pentecost? Do you see the message given by Peter that day an not see the first call to turn from the Temple worship to that of the Christ? “…It was you who killed Him…”. The religious rulers who stand to loose all status and later greatly persecuted the founding churches.

The Temple and the rituals performed were all the salvation the people knew, and to get to the kingdom of God meant something Temple related. Being a “righteous Jew” meant and still means you have a right relationship to the temple (currently the local area Temple).

Part of that right relationship is acquiring wealth and giving to the temple large sums. Remember the Lord looking at the giving and remarking about the mite given by the woman.


Because you refuse to understand this basic principle of Jewish life, you then take verses such as the eye of the needle and the rulers hindering others from the kingdom as the statements that reference eternal salvation as Gentiles now understand it (for God has continued to keep the Jews hearts and minds darkened until the time of Gentiles is

finished - it is finishing),

Please do not confuse this issue any more.

It has been explained to you before.

However, I wil predict that you will be stubborn in your ignorance and blame it on Calvinism and Calvinists. For that does seem to be your theme.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
1) Why is it hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God? If Calvinism were true, and it is not, then it would not be hard as the rich or poor would all be conveyed into the kingdom by "irresistible grace." Thus the fact that it is hard for a rich person demonstrates Calvinism is as bogus as a three dollar bill.
Mark 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.”

John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Van, can a human birth themselves?

2 Corinthians 5:17-19 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Again, Van, you miss the context and your lack of following a basic principle in the thinking of the Jews at that time. SNIP
Why is it hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God? If Calvinism were true, and it is not, then it would not be hard as the rich or poor would all be conveyed into the kingdom by "irresistible grace." Thus the fact that it is hard for a rich person demonstrates Calvinism is as bogus as a three dollar bill.

Now according to at least one Calvinist "entering the kingdom of God" does not refer to salvation. However, the goal of entering remains, and it would not be hard for the rich in worldly treasure to enter if entry by irresistible grace was true. Calvinism has once again been should by scripture to be false doctrine. No how many times the subject is changed, that fact will remain.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mark 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.”

John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Van, can a human birth themselves?

2 Corinthians 5:17-19 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

Here once again is a Calvinist not addressing the issue, but instead trying to change the subject. I ask why it would be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom, and instead of an answer I get "can a human birth themselves?"

1) Just because God could do something provides not a scintilla of evidence that God actually did it. False teaches use this idiotic argument over and over again.
2) The word translated "see" in John 3:3 is used in the same sense of going to your doctor and "seeing" him. Thus the idea is being personally inside and interacting with the kingdom. However Calvinism uses a misconception of this verse, due to ambiguity, to claim a person cannot even perceive the existence of the kingdom. Twaddle
3) Can some humans do the work God requires? Yes. Luke 7:50
4) Individuals are born anew, becoming a new creation, when God credits their faith as righteousness, and places them into Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:30, Romans 4:4-5, Romans 4:23-24
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Why is it hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God? If Calvinism were true, and it is not, then it would not be hard as the rich or poor would all be conveyed into the kingdom by "irresistible grace." Thus the fact that it is hard for a rich person demonstrates Calvinism is as bogus as a three dollar bill.

Now according to at least one Calvinist "entering the kingdom of God" does not refer to salvation. However, the goal of entering remains, and it would not be hard for the rich in worldly treasure to enter if entry by irresistible grace was true. Calvinism has once again been should by scripture to be false doctrine. No how many times the subject is changed, that fact will remain.
Van, I was trying to show you the historical Jewish view and how the folks of that day and even this day take the authority of the places of worship as key to the kingdom.

I cannot help that you are so biased to Calvinists that even a practical lesson is somehow in your mind twisted.

How did Christ respond to Nicodemus? …you cannot even see the kingdom of heaven….

Why? To disarm him from the Temple authority tradition and lay in the man’s mind the awareness of prophetic fulfillment was taking place.

Why did Christ deal with the woman at the well in such a manner? To make her aware that the kingdom did not rest in the place of worship authority.

Why did Christ say to the religious righteous you “ …hinder those wanting entrance…”? To acknowledge the temporary authority the temple held and show a new greater authority to the people.

and on and on.

But your own bias destroys any attempts at giving you education.

In my post I stated a prediction;
However, I wil predict that you will be stubborn in your ignorance and blame it on Calvinism and Calvinists. For that does seem to be your theme.

Looks like I was correct in predicting your reaction.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Van, I was trying to show you SNIP
.

Here once again is a Calvinist not addressing the issue, but instead trying to change the subject. I ask why it would be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom, and instead of an answer I get "can a human birth themselves?"

1) Just because God could do something provides not a scintilla of evidence that God actually did it. False teaches use this idiotic argument over and over again.
2) The word translated "see" in John 3:3 is used in the same sense of going to your doctor and "seeing" him. Thus the idea is being personally inside and interacting with the kingdom. However Calvinism uses a misconception of this verse, due to ambiguity, to claim a person cannot even perceive the existence of the kingdom. Twaddle
3) Can some humans do the work God requires? Yes. Luke 7:50
4) Individuals are born anew, becoming a new creation, when God credits their faith as righteousness, and places them into Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:30, Romans 4:4-5, Romans 4:23-24
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Here once again is a Calvinist not addressing the issue, but instead trying to change the subject. I ask why it would be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom, and instead of an answer I get "can a human birth themselves?"

1) Just because God could do something provides not a scintilla of evidence that God actually did it. False teaches use this idiotic argument over and over again.
2) The word translated "see" in John 3:3 is used in the same sense of going to your doctor and "seeing" him. Thus the idea is being personally inside and interacting with the kingdom. However Calvinism uses a misconception of this verse, due to ambiguity, to claim a person cannot even perceive the existence of the kingdom. Twaddle
3) Can some humans do the work God requires? Yes. Luke 7:50
4) Individuals are born anew, becoming a new creation, when God credits their faith as righteousness, and places them into Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:30, Romans 4:4-5, Romans 4:23-24

your bias blinds you from the truth.
 
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