A little "end time" confusion (Who is leaving?)

[menageriekeeper]

This morning the preacher was preaching about money. (new building campaign coming up) During some of the more unapplicable to me portions of the sermon I got to reading the scripture around the topic passage (which he stretched a bit imo to fit). While doing so, I read a passage I've read more than once but again found something I hadn't considered. Here's the passage:

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (KJV bolding mine)

So here's the question: Who is leaving. Are Christians going to be raptured out as suggested else where in scripture OR are the "tares" leaving as described in this passage? How do we reconcile these two seemingly conflicting views of the end of the world?

 

[Iconoclast]

The rapture is the last day...both grow together till the harvest.

The white throne judgement;

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

How do we reconcile these two seemingly conflicting views of the end of the world?

Simple.....one is taught in the bible. the other is not!

39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day

 

[menageriekeeper]

So we are all leaving?? (in order to be divided at the Great White Throne?)

 

[Iconoclast]

So we are all leaving?? (in order to be divided at the Great White Throne?)

Yes..we are..on the last day...
28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
:thumbs::applause:

 

[freeatlast]

This morning the preacher was preaching about money. (new building campaign coming up) During some of the more unapplicable to me portions of the sermon I got to reading the scripture around the topic passage (which he stretched a bit imo to fit). While doing so, I read a passage I've read more than once but again found something I hadn't considered. Here's the passage:
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (KJV bolding mine)


So here's the question: Who is leaving. Are Christians going to be raptured out as suggested else where in scripture OR are the "tares" leaving as described in this passage? How do we reconcile these two seemingly conflicting views of the end of the world?

Look at verse 39.
That is talking about the end of the world, not the time of the rapture or the time of the return of the Lord.

 

[Robert Snow]

Look at verse 39.
That is talking about the end of the world, not the time of the rapture or the time of the return of the Lord.

Correct. The Rapture is before all this, at the beginning of the Tribulation, in my opinion. Of course I am dispensational in my eschatology.

 

[Tom Butler]

Matthew 24:40 Then shall be two in the field, the one shall be taken and the other left.
Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken, and the other left

Is this a picture of the rapture?
Or, is there room for the view that those who are taken are taken for judgment?

Matthew 24 is generally not considered a pre-trib passage.

 

[Greektim]

Correct. The Rapture is before all this, at the beginning of the Tribulation, in my opinion. Of course I am dispensational in my eschatology.

So easy to skirt around the obvious truth so long as you have your dispensational theology to fall back on.

 

[Robert Snow]

So easy to skirt around the obvious truth so long as you have your dispensational theology to fall back on.

Forgive my uneducated hodgepodge of biblical theology. I guess I should have never read Ironside, Ryrie, McGee and the like.

Why does it bother you that I hold to dispensationalism?

 

[beameup]

We who are of the Church, the Bride of Christ, are a kind of "firstfruits".
The main harvest comes during the Tribulation (see Rev. 14:1-7).

The 144,000 are (genetic) Israelites - 12,000 from each of the 12 Tribes.
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and]
four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. Rev 14:1,

These are the redeemed (genetic) Israelites for the Father.
As opposed to the Gentile Bride of Christ which is for the Son.
During the Tribulation, the (genetic) Israelites will fulfill the Great Commission -
become a "light unto the Gentiles" and carry the Tribulation Gospel of Jesus
to the ends of the earth. They will be endowed with supernatural power
as were "the twelve" (genetic) Israelite disciples/apostles. Those Gentiles saved
during the Tribulation will face certain martyrdom. see Rev 14:13 & 7:14

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they
which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made
them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[beameup]

Is this a picture of the rapture?
Or, is there room for the view that those who are taken are taken for judgment?

Matthew 24 is generally not considered a pre-trib passage.

There will be people who will live on into the Millennium.
Those who are taken are taken for judgment post-tribulation.

Matthew 24:40 Then shall be two in the field, the one shall be taken and the other left.
Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken, and the other left

 

[righteousdude2]

In Response to the Who? Not As Many....

.....as the world and the church may think!

SEE: Matthew 7:12-15


Pastor Paul, with
Get on the Path Ministries! :flower:

 

[freeatlast]

So easy to skirt around the obvious truth so long as you have your dispensational theology to fall back on.

Well the passage says the end of the world! What what is the truth if that is not it?

 

[thomas15]

So easy to skirt around the obvious truth so long as you have your dispensational theology to fall back on.

Truth obvious like as in the covenants of works, redemption and grace which of course have wide acceptance among the awsome cool reformed but zilch in the way of clear Biblical proof.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Let me see if I understand what's being said:

The dispensationalists believe that this division occurs AFTER the rapture and tribulation time and describes those left on earth, nonChristian and those who were converted during.

And the rest of you believe that this event happens practically simultaneous with the rapture and the Great White Judgement seat event? (and perhaps deny there is a rapture at all?)

 

[Iconoclast]

Let me see if I understand what's being said:

The dispensationalists believe that this division occurs AFTER the rapture and tribulation time and describes those left on earth, nonChristian and those who were converted during.

And the rest of you believe that this event happens practically simultaneous with the rapture and the Great White Judgement seat event? (and perhaps deny there is a rapture at all?)

MK
Dispensational theory has mt 24 describing the rapture , then a 7 yr tribulation, then a thousand yr millenial kingdom/
Others have it at the last day as Jesus said.
Those who do not follow dispy ideas...see Mt 24 as fulfilled in 70ad.

Mk sometimes the "end of the world" is the "end of the age"...the end of the Jewish age:wavey:

 

[Iconoclast]

Forgive my uneducated hodgepodge of biblical theology. I guess I should have never read Ironside, Ryrie, McGee and the like.

Why does it bother you that I hold to dispensationalism?

RS...
Those men are fine to read, but there are many other men who have contended with that view.Read the other men also:wavey:

 

[mandym]

So easy to skirt around the obvious truth so long as you have your dispensational theology to fall back on.

Mean spirited posts like this are completely unnecessary and lack the level of maturity that is needed to carry on adult conversation.

 

[Greektim]

Mean spirited posts like this are completely unnecessary and lack the level of maturity that is needed to carry on adult conversation.

Was meant to be accusatory not mean spirited. I've seen this all too much - a reliance on a theological system rather than Scripture (even if I believe that theological system is right). Instead of answering the question w/ Scripture, he feel back to his system of a rapture and concluded something that he contended was not in the text. So it was meant to be given in the tone of accusation. And accusation is, in my opinion, not mean spirited but in the same realm as rebuke or correcting.

 

[Greektim]

Forgive my uneducated hodgepodge of biblical theology. I guess I should have never read Ironside, Ryrie, McGee and the like.

Why does it bother you that I hold to dispensationalism?

That is not biblical theology but systematic theology. And those theologians you mentioned wrote systematics not biblical theologies.

What bothers me is not that you are a dispo. WHat bothers me is that you system interpreted the Scripture in question rather than the text or the reader or whatever. I don't even like it when people I agree w/ theologically do this. I've pointed this out to fellow posters here w/ whom I am in agreement.