A-millennialism still reigns supreme -

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by trailblazer:
JIM,

I might also add that Darby's doctrine of the end times got it's legs just about the time Charles Taze Russell got his Jehovah's Witnesses religion going with his predictions of 1884 being the end of world. The Joe Smith got the Mormons moving along, Mary Baker Eddy got her vision going with Christian Science and also the Seventh Day Adventist with their predicion of the end of the world in 1884 too - yet, all within about a 40-70 year period of each other.

That alone would cause me to wonder about what was coming out of that period of time!

You make a great point trailblazer. The 19th century was one in which a great number of heretical "so-called Christian" cults were established. Unfortunately Scofield popularized Darby's errors with his reference Bible and a lot of Baptists departed from the faith which was once delivered to the Saints [Jude 1:3] to embrace it.

Then of course in the late 20th century we had the rise of the "name it and claim it" heresy which worsened into the "Word of Faith" heresy.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Do not forget William Miller, the Baptist minister claimed, Christ will come at 12 midnight somewhere in September, 1843. He announced to his congregation, on the date of Christ's return. They believed him. They were gathering otgether waitng on the hill through all night for Christ to appearing. But, Christ didn't come by the sunrise. Half of the congregation were upset with him.

A year later, William Miller made his second attempt to set the date of Christ's return. Congregation still believe in him. Even, many of them were quit their job. They were gathering together on the hill waiting for Christ to appear. But, Christ didn't appear at the sunrise. Most of the conregation were very angry at William Miller. Miller's church got into split. That one teenager girl who was at Miller's church, was there that time, later she found religion - 'Seventh Advent Church' - I think named is Mary Bakker.

Oh what a shamed for cults rise out during 19th Century.

Funny that same year 1830, John Darby developed pretribulaiton doctrine, at the same Joseph Smith invented his religion - Mormons.

Very strange.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[trailblazer]

DeafPostTrib,

Have you heard the news? We have a new date for the end of the world. Harold Camping is setting it to 2,011. Spring I think..not sure.

Is even encouraging people to leave the "apostate" churches and stay home and listen to Family Radio!

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by trailblazer:
DeafPostTrib,

Have you heard the news? We have a new date for the end of the world. Harold Camping is setting it to 2,011. Spring I think..not sure.

Is even encouraging people to leave the "apostate" churches and stay home and listen to Family Radio!

Are you serious, or is this a joke? Who is Harold Camping? Never heard of him?

website?

I need a good laugh.

 

[trailblazer]

Really? You never heard of him? Wow!

I don't have a website but just do a word search on his name and it will come up.

And yes it is true. He has a book out and it is in his book.

He is A-mill too!!! Or, at least I think he is.

He also is known for having proclaimed that Christ was going to come back in ? 1996, September I think.

 

[Watchman]

Trailblazer, I wish I had the luxury of time to write a thesis in responce to everyone. I do not.
I did read all of your counter-points, and, suffice it to say, I reject all of them.
I no longer see this conversation as being anything but a futile chasing the wind, with no edifying principles at all. As such, I bring my participation to a close.
I guess I just do not understand the a-mill position-at all. If you take God's for what it says, there is no excuse for being a-mill.
It is a corruption and perversion that an heretical teacher invented.

 

[trailblazer]

Watchman,

My only regret is having responded in the first place. I took a great deal of time to ensure that what I wrote was biblically sound. Especially at a time when I was incredibly busy from frozen pipes that burst and ceilings down on soaked carpets. I really wish that you had told me up front that you weren't going to take it seriously.

I will only add that if you just simply put your Hal Lindsay books away and just read the Bible only for 2 years, you will come back to this board an A-mill indeed!

 

[Daniel David]

Nice to see you gnostics, errrggg, amills are still alive and well.

Deafposttrib, allow me to lay it out for you, as you have been theologically drugged by amill theology.

Three things go hand in hand in Matthew 19:28

1. Christ will return to sit upon his throne
2. The disciples will judge the NATION of Israel
3. The regeneration will take place

Now, if any one of those things has happened, they all have happened. If none of them have happened, then it is still future.

Christ did not say how long he would reign upon the earth. I really don't understand your insistence upon every text of scripture stating how long an event must take place. You are all the time saying that the bible never says a thousand years, besides in Revelation 20.

Let me learn ya sumpin': the Bible isn't a systematic theology book. We must use our minds to understand all of Scripture. The Old Testament anticipates the Messiah reigning upon the earth. Christ said he would in Matthew 19:28. John tells us how long he will reign.

I don't understand why amills are so confused, so easily.

Oldreg, the names of the 3 disciples are:

1. Ignatious
2. Polycarp
3. Papias

Irenaeous was either intimately acquainted with each one or very familiar with their writings. According to Irenaeous (a staunch premillenialist), Papias wrote 5 volumes on Christian theology. Volume 4 was devoted to the earthly, millenial reign of Christ. In fact, Eusebious (an amill) conceded this point as well. So it isn't well wishing of premillenialists. I realize you don't have a clue about history, so this point is really for those who have biblical integrity on this issue.

Matt, no one cares about your reconstruction of history and distortion of reality. Liberal theology is a waste of everyone's time. Your post is devoid of reason, truth, reality, and intellectual honesty.

 

[Aaron]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
Oldreg, read Matthew 19:28 and tell me when that happened.

Trailblazer won't, as he thinks he is the gingerbread. Run, run, run as fast as you can, you can't catch me, I'm the ...

Speaking of running: I'm still waiting for answers to my questions from the old thread. Didn't you say you would start a new thread or something?

 

[Ed Edwards]

Trailblazer: " ... Seventh Day Adventist with their predicion of the end of the world in 1884 too ... "

Like the rest of your history, your statement is
incorrect. Make that 1848 for the Adventists.
BTW, Joseph Smith Jr was in the early 1800s and
Mary Baker Eddy was in the late 1800s.

The Millerites were the Adventists.
Strangely in 1848 a false Messiah showed up in
Iran (but the US apparently didn't know about it).

In 1399 Vincent Ferrer (c1350-1419) noted there
were 2537 verses in the Psalms so he figured
that since 1399 + 2537 = 3936, that is when the
world will end, 3936AD

 

[OldRegular]

A few quotes from the Darbyites just to show that the love of Jesus Christ overflows their little pea-pikin harts!!!!!!

1. Please, if you have any love of Christ or the bretheren
please put a complete citation on your scripures.

2. If you have any love of Christ or the each scripure.

3. don't waste your time. I have used that verse and countless others to get amills out of their unbelief, but alas, they would rather believe a lie.

4. do you deny God's Word in regards to the fact that everything is on the same day in Luke 17?

5. Oldreg, I encourage you to stop putting verses into a hat, shaking it up, and then picking one out and then starting over again to get your systematic theology down. Try exercising thinking skills.

6. Another mindless strawman that characterizes all amill thinking skills? Definitely.

7. Please excuse me if "by type" is a Master's program term and you just have a Bachelor's degree or less.

8. I don't expect an answer. To answer these issues truthfully would be to negate amill theology. In other words, to have integrity with the Scripture, you would cease to be amill.

9. ONLY by redefining words to suit their theology can a-mils support their thesis. Many unbiblical theologies do this. Catholic, Mormon, Jehovahs Witnesses, etc.

10. Nice to see you gnostics, errrggg, amills are still alive and well.

11. Matt, no one cares about your reconstruction of history and distortion of reality. Liberal theology is a waste of everyone's time. Your post is devoid of reason, truth, reality, and intellectual honesty.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Watchman:
I no longer see this conversation as being anything but a futile chasing the wind, with no edifying principles at all. As such, I bring my participation to a close.

While correct, unlike you, i've been called
to fight the good fight here until
the Lord calls me home or until Jesus
comes to get me PRIOR TO THE TRIBULATION
DAY.

Originally posted by Watchman:
I guess I just do not understand the a-mill position-at all. If you take God's for what it says, there is no excuse for being a-mill.
It is a corruption and perversion that an heretical teacher invented.

Amen, Brother Watchman -- Preach it!

I always wondered if Origin created it
before or after removal of the family jewels

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
A few quotes from the Darbyites just to show that the love of Jesus Christ overflows their little pea-pikin harts!!!!!!

1. Please, if you have any love of Christ or the bretheren
please put a complete citation on your scripures.

Acts 17:10-11 (KJV1611):

And the brethren immediatly sent away Paul and Silas
by night vnto Berea: who comming thither, went into
the Synagogue of the Iewes.
11 These were more noble then those in
Thessalonica, in that they receiued the word with
all readinesse of minde, and searched the Scriptures
dayly, whether those things were so.

God has required that i be as the Bereans.
I have to check every Scriptural reference in
the topics i read.

I take it that Brother OldRegular will NOT
help me do my duty to God by a simple
and reasonable thing which everybody
aught to do anyway.
Frankly I see no reason why i should read
his posts anymore. Therefore I shall
shun him. To bad about people who don't
understand "if" can NEVER be a condemnation.
How can a person not see that my request
was kind and considerate. Must be more going
on here than nobody but Daniel David can
see?

 

[Matt Black]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
11. Matt, no one cares about your reconstruction of history and distortion of reality. Liberal theology is a waste of everyone's time. Your post is devoid of reason, truth, reality, and intellectual honesty.

Indeed. I can really feel the love of Jesus in this post. Instead of engaging with the posters, we get the usual tired childish name-calling. Oh well, "By their fruits shall you know them..."...

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[DeafPosttrib]

DD,

Nations will be existing on new earth during future eternality kingdom.

Prove in Rev. 21:4-"And the NATIONS of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honor into it."

And more..

Rev. 21:26 -"And they shall bring the glory and honor of the NATIONS into it."

And more..

Rev. 22:2-"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the NATIONS."

Revelation chapter 21 and 22 telling us, nations will be existing on new earth for future eternality kingdom.

I believe America, Europe, China, Russia, many nations and even also Israel will be existing on new earth in the next age to come.

I believe all 12 disciples shall judge the 12 tribes of Israel. Also, I believe there will be more than just judging 12 tribes of Israel, I am sure that the 12 disciples shall reign over thr 12 tribes of Israel, as Christ shall give higher or exalteth postion or duty to them for the future eternality kingdom. Also, I believe Christ shall give many faithful Christians to have their duty to rule over cities on new earth for future eternality kingdom.

I am no doubt, I strong believe there will be LOT of activities on new earth, not just walking around New Jerusalem, or walking anywhere over new earth. I BELIEVE that, faithful saints shall built houses, buildings, etc.. anywhere over new earth in the next age - according Isaiah 65:21-22 follow verse 17 on new earth.

I am sure that, some premills might saying to amills, 'why not you tear chapter 20 out of the book of Revelation?' That is wrongly accuse at amills, what amill really believe. No amill person deny Revelation chapter 20. They agree and believe what Revelation chapter 20 completely 100%.

Understand, amills intpereting Revelation chapter 20 differently as what premills interpreting.

Premills might saying to amills, 'why cannot you see word, "a thousand years" in chapter 20, where's your glass?'

Premills emphasis 'a thousand years' of chapter 20 is a literal future 1,000 years on earth after Chrisit's coming, by follow chapter 19.

Years ago, I was used to be in premill's shoe, I believed chapter 20 speaks of 'a thousand years' is a literal future 1,000 years on earth. Later, I realize chapter 20 speaks of symbol and figurative meaning.

Later this week, I will discuss more on 'a thousand years' with scriptures, what these saying. I hope that you will opening your mind, and heart see the truths from the scriptures, what these saith.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[trailblazer]

Old Regular,

About this in your post above that was supposed to be quoting "Darbyites."

4. do you deny God's Word in regards to the fact that everything is on the same day in Luke 17?

I am not, never have been, nor ever will be a disciple of John Nelson Darby.

I am a disciple of Christ that believes in the Amillenial view of the Second Coming of Christ.

The quote above was taken out of context. The context involved a detailed discussion in reference to a challenge put to me by WATCHMAN concerning the "Rapture out of the church" before the "Great Tribulation." Luke 17 is explicitly clear that Christ's Coming, separation, and judgment are all one single event and occur "on the very same day" as the chapter indicates. After the legthy and detailed presentation of the clear and obvious words of Christ, I strongly challenged WATCHMAN to accept Christ words rather than the words of Darby as he still has not denied the truthfulness of my conclusions by showing, by scripture, that I was wrong. That challenge was perfectly acceptable under the circumstance and was meant to be for the love of a brother who has been mislead, to challenge him in a way that would hopefully get him to accept God's Word over Darby's word. I think you owe me an apology.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by trailblazer:
Old Regular,

About this in your post above that was supposed to be quoting "Darbyites."

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />4. do you deny God's Word in regards to the fact that everything is on the same day in Luke 17?

I am not, never have been, nor ever will be a disciple of John Nelson Darby.

I am a disciple of Christ that believes in the Amillenial view of the Second Coming of Christ.

The quote above was taken out of context. The context involved a detailed discussion in reference to a challenge put to me by WATCHMAN concerning the "Rapture out of the church" before the "Great Tribulation." Luke 17 is explicitly clear that Christ's Coming, separation, and judgment are all one single event and occur "on the very same day" as the chapter indicates. After the legthy and detailed presentation of the clear and obvious words of Christ, I strongly challenged WATCHMAN to accept Christ words rather than the words of Darby as he still has not denied the truthfulness of my conclusions by showing, by scripture, that I was wrong. That challenge was perfectly acceptable under the circumstance and was meant to be for the love of a brother who has been mislead, to challenge him in a way that would hopefully get him to accept God's Word over Darby's word. I think you owe me an apology. </font>[/QUOTE]trailblazer

I do apologize. You are correct. I misread a post by Ed Ed and pulled out the above quote. I know from your posts that you were amillennial as I am, not a believer in Darbyism.

I think most of the quotes I pulled out are by ED ED and DD. Since ED ED is going to "shun" me perhaps the insults thrown my way will be cut in half.

I am happy to engage in discussion of Scripture and the proper interpretation of it. However I have found on this and other forums that the favorite response of dispensationalists [Darbyites] to those with differing viewpoints is to question their salvation, their belief in the Scripture, or their intelligence. Frankly I avoided the earlier thread by DD on amillennialism for that very reason.

Again I sincerely apologize, I had no intention of counting you among the Darbyites.

 

[trailblazer]

OLD REGULAR,

Thank you for your humility! You set a good example.

 

[av1611jim]

Originally posted by trailblazer:
JIM,

I might also add that Darby's doctrine of the end times got it's legs just about the time Charles Taze Russell got his Jehovah's Witnesses religion going with his predictions of 1884 being the end of world. The Joe Smith got the Mormons moving along, Mary Baker Eddy got her vision going with Christian Science and also the Seventh Day Adventist with their predicion of the end of the world in 1884 too - yet, all within about a 40-70 year period of each other.

That alone would cause me to wonder about what was coming out of that period of time!

__________________________________________________

OH YES! AMEN! I would wonder too. Moody, Spurgeon, et al, in that SAME time period. Terrible movements!



In HIS service;
Jim

 

[av1611jim]

And while we are at it...
Nero was a bit wild and wooly at the SAME time the NT was being written, so let's not trust it!



In HIS service;
Jim