A modern day "Downgrade"

[Dale-c]

http://pulpitandpen.org/2013/05/23/17/

This is a call to repentance to the SBC and evangelicalism in general.

Very good.

The name comes from the Downgrade Controversy from Spurgeon's day.

 

[preacher4truth]

Thanks for sharing this. I intend on listening to it later today.

- Blessings

 

[Dale-c]

The speaker is still in the SBC and this is primarily coming from that perspective but it is applicable to the larger evangelical church.

 

[sag38]

Good grief: I listened to the first ten minutes and never really heard his diagnosis of what is wrong except that he doesn't like the "sinner's prayer." Thought I was going to hear a good message but so far it is nothing but a diatribe. No thanks!

 

[Alive in Christ]

I just finished listening to it. I thought it was ((TREMENDOUS.))

(For the most part. 95%)

 

[quantumfaith]

Good grief: I listened to the first ten minutes and never really heard his diagnosis of what is wrong except that he doesn't like the "sinner's prayer." Thought I was going to hear a good message but so far it is nothing but a diatribe. No thanks!

I agree sag, his diatribe begins with his idea that repentance is somehow to be avoided or be done in "secret rooms". Such sweeping generalizations. Note he is speaking in a "reformed baptist" gathering and pontificating on his SBC roots.

It sounds to me like he wants the SBC to exactly and ONLY what HE deems it should be.

 

[Dale-c]

Good grief: I listened to the first ten minutes and never really heard his diagnosis of what is wrong except that he doesn't like the "sinner's prayer." Thought I was going to hear a good message but so far it is nothing but a diatribe. No thanks!

It was not a normal message.

If you listened to all of it, you would hear what he was getting at. I think it was a little slow developing though.

 

[Revmitchell]

I am tired of hearing griping about the sinners prayer. Largely because it gets misrepresented as much as free will does. If we are going to have a real discussion about things more honesty needs to be part of it.

 

[quantumfaith]

I am tired of hearing griping about the sinners prayer. Largely because it gets misrepresented as much as free will does. If we are going to have a real discussion about things more honesty needs to be part of it.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

In my Bible College we would call this "preaching the sugar stick to the surrounding choir".

 

[Alive in Christ]

I am tired of hearing griping about the sinners prayer. Largely because it gets misrepresented as much as free will does. If we are going to have a real discussion about things more honesty needs to be part of it.

I have no problem with the "sinners prayer" either, as long it is a sincere plea to be saved. and NOT just..."say these words"

 

[quantumfaith]

I have no problem with the "sinners prayer" either, as long it is a sincere plea to be saved. and NOT just..."say these words"

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Dale-c]

I have no problem with the "sinners prayer" either, as long it is a sincere plea to be saved. and NOT just..."say these words"

Yeah, the words are not so much the problem as the formula that it has become.


For those that think that this was about the sinner's prayer obviously did not listen to the whole thing. THat is fine, it is pretty long and you don't have to listen to it, but please don't respond if you don't plan to actually listen to what he says.

 

[Jerome]

The speaker is still in the SBC

He sure is:

J.D. Hall Why I’ve Left the Convention 2-28-13

When someone comes to join my church from a Bible-belt Southern Baptist Church I have to assume they are not saved

the North American Mission Board to run rough-shod over the local church. NAMB has become a raging monster of financial waste

The Cooperative Program is no longer a safe place to entrust the church’s resources. Their statistics are falsified

My church. . .will not be a part of the Montana Southern Baptist Convention. . . .Our membership in the SBC will remain because our doctrine is in alignment with that of our founders, although our giving will circumvent the Cooperative Program

we can no longer support a Convention that has become what it has become, a lukewarm shadow of its former self, operating under a practical denial of the sufficiency of Scripture

 

[sag38]

I didn't listen for long. This guy isn't preaching God's word. He has a chip on his shoulder and an ax to grind. Perhaps he needs to take a long look in the mirror when it comes to repentance.

 

[SolaSaint]

Seems to me like the truth hurts some times. If your offended maybe it is hitting a little too close to home. I agree with a lot of what he says, the SBC has been taken over by the Purpose Driven marketing programs while the whole Gospel has been maligned. I know this isn't so in some churches but it is for many. May we truly repent. I thank him for his boldness.

 

[Crabtownboy]

It will do Christianity no good to look back and long for the past ... that actually never was. It will do Christianity no good to be smug about our current condition and stand still. Rather we must read the trends in our society and world and present the message of Christ in a manner that is clear and meaningful. We must look at our church structures and change where necessary to meet the needs of our changing times.

One area, I believe, we must change is to stop being a mono-ethnic church and become a church that accepts all into our fellowship regardless of race, creed or color. I know a Korean pastor in Prague. His church has Christians, Buddhists, Moslems who attend and who participate in many ways, including the choir. The Buddhists and Moslems may not be Christian at the moment, but they are hearing the message and they are accepted as people of worth. How different history might be if Gandhi had met such a pastor and church when he tried to attend a Christian church, but was turned away because he was Indian.

I was not offended by the audio. I was saddened in that he seems, to me, to insist that his way is the only way at the same time he criticizes the SBC for saying, "my way or the highway."

 

[RLBosley]

One area, I believe, we must change is to stop being a mono-ethnic church and become a church that accepts all into our fellowship regardless of race, creed or color. I know a Korean pastor in Prague. His church has Christians, Buddhists, Moslems who attend and who participate in many ways, including the choir. The Buddhists and Moslems may not be Christian at the moment, but they are hearing the message and they are accepted as people of worth. How different history might be if Gandhi had met such a pastor and church when he tried to attend a Christian church, but was turned away because he was Indian.

I was not offended by the audio. I was saddened in that he seems, to me, to insist that his way is the only way at the same time he criticizes the SBC for saying, "my way or the highway."

Race and color yes. Most churches I think are pretty good about that actually. (The ones I've been a part of anyway, even the IFB were pretty diverse.)

But creed? No I don't think so. The purpose of "church" (by that I mean what occurs on Sunday mornings and should more appropriately called worship gatherings, since the church properly is the people not the place or event.) is NOT evangelism. It's for the building up of the saints. So it is a gathering together of like minded believers to be under the preaching of the Word and worship of God. Unbelievers should have no part in that. Especially unbelievers that are openly following a false religion such as Islam or Buddhism.

And quite frankly, why should I give $.02 what Gandhi thought? He was just another unbelieving man.

To the OP, thanks for the post, I'll listen when I get home.

 

[Dale-c]

I didn't listen for long.......

If you didn't listen for long then you don't have any business writing it all off. Listen to the whole thing, if you still disagree then say so.


Just for an example, what do you think of his concern with planting churches for race car fans? Or the fact that he wanted to plant a church for people of all walks of life yet he was thought to be out of touch for not targeting a specific demographic?

 

[Dale-c]

We must look at our church structures and change where necessary to meet the needs of our changing times.


This is exactly what we DON'T need to do. We need to look to the scriptures to see what is Biblical.


As for race etc, it was this pastor who was promoting the idea of a church for sinners of all types.


I think most churches are pretty good these days about being racially inclusive, sadly though, churches are still very segregated though not by design of the leadership.

 

[preacher4truth]

We must look at our church structures and change where necessary to meet the needs of our changing times.


This is exactly what we DON'T need to do. We need to look to the scriptures to see what is Biblical.


As for race etc, it was this pastor who was promoting the idea of a church for sinners of all types.


I think most churches are pretty good these days about being racially inclusive, sadly though, churches are still very segregated though not by design of the leadership.

Exactly. Goes along the same lines of how to reach the h0m0sectuals -- 'Oh no, what should we do to reach them, we have to think of something!!?'

How about the novel idea ofpreaching the Gospel? They don't need a special or revamped anything -- they come to Christ in the same manner as others and via the Gospel.

- Blessings