A Mystery To Me...

[donnA]

A dead man cannot feel pain and suffer either, making hell pointless and meaningless to a corpse.

You also have the problem of believers being "dead to sin". I hope you don't hold to the notion we are unable to sin...

Of course we are able to sin, but we are dead to sins control over us.

 

[donnA]

What do you think of this alternative: One could choose to live like a Calvinist without ever trusting in Christ as Savior? A good for instance" would be someone who grew up in a Reform Church and just conformed to Calvinism/Lutheranism naturally. Could that happen -- dead in sin, living like a Christian because he never chose Christ??

skypair

one could choose to live like an armenian and still never be saved, only thinks they are, based on their precieved freedom, not God's.

 

[skypair]

one could choose to live like an armenian and still never be saved, only thinks they are, based on their precieved freedom, not God's.

Just so I have this straight -- they could live like an Arminian but not like a Calvinist?? A Calvinist couldn't just assume they were saved despite doing NOTHING that might merit God's grace??

I mean, that would conform to your sotierology of "unconditional election" and "total sovereignty of God" for someone not to do anything on behalf of his own salvation and then pretend to be "elect" by "holy living," wouldn't it?? If your answer is in the negative, pls explain for me.

skypair

 

[ReformedBaptist]

You got it wrong, TC. God could have sinned very easily in Christ's flesh -- but He chose not to. Do you not believe the verse that says "He was tempted in all ways like unto us yet siined not?" Such a statement would presume that God could choose to sin, especially in the body of Christ, but did not.

Your comments go a long way toward explaining how you are "bewitched" with Calvinism, though. Even the "low hanging fruit" of scripture and logic are still "out of reach" to you.

skypair

Dear skypair,

I submit to you that brother Martin is a child of God, a born again child of God. Why would you malign and slander your brother so? You ought not to treat the brethren this way.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

1. Today I was speaking to a fellow SBC pastor about the mystery of sanctification.

2. To appreciate this mystery of sanctification, you must be a Calvinist:

a. How is it that even after we have been regenerated and given a new nature to desire God, we sin against God, even to the point of falling away for a season?

b. How is it that Paul says that it is God who is at work in us to work and to do according to God's good pleasure (Phil.2:13) and yet believers sin, even to the point of falling away for a season?

3. And Why, at the same time, some believers who have the same Spirit of God in them, never so sin as to fall away for a season?

4. After much discussion, we both concluded that these scenarios all point to the Mystery of Sanctification.

Amen brother. I have found great comfort in the Scriptures that give us our Lord's prayer for His people. In the Gospel of John, chapter 17, we are granted by the mercy and grace of God the high priestly prayer of the Lord Jesus Christ. We know we have such an Advocate in our Lord Jesus Christ who makes intercession for His people. 1 John 2:1; Isa 53:12; Rom 8:34.

Is there any prayer that our Lord Jesus Christ would ask of the Father and it be denied Him? God forbid. And He prays for those whom the Father has given Him. "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine." John 17:9 This he is speaking particularly of the Apostles, yet it is not the only people Jesus is praying for.

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word." John 17:20.

Our Lord Jesus, our great High Priest, interecedes for all believers. And He asks the Father to sanctify them. "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." v.17

Hallelujah. My eternal life is secure because it rests upon the work of the Lord Jesus Christ. v.2 My sanctification is secure becaue it rests upon the work of the Lord Jesus Christ v.17 And my glorification is secure because it rests upon the work of Lord Jesus Christ, "Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world." v.24.

Grace, Grace! From first to last! What comfort the interecession of our Lord brings to weary saints!!!

Soli Deo Gloria,
RB

 

[christianyouth]

1. Today I was speaking to a fellow SBC pastor about the mystery of sanctification.

2. To appreciate this mystery of sanctification, you must be a Calvinist:

a. How is it that even after we have been regenerated and given a new nature to desire God, we sin against God, even to the point of falling away for a season?

b. How is it that Paul says that it is God who is at work in us to work and to do according to God's good pleasure (Phil.2:13) and yet believers sin, even to the point of falling away for a season?

3. And Why, at the same time, some believers who have the same Spirit of God in them, never so sin as to fall away for a season?

4. After much discussion, we both concluded that these scenarios all point to the Mystery of Sanctification.

TC, it is a mystery. Me and my brother were talking about this the other day, and we came to the conclusion that Christians are sanctified by how much exposure they have to the truth, i.e. preaching and teaching. I was looking at the people in my church and people who seem to be spiritually stagnant. Then I seen my friend Derek and my brother Matt, both who have been saved for about a year and are growing leaps and bounds.

Matt and Derek both listen to great teachers and preachers, while the majority of other people at my church only listen to our Pastors sermons. Matt has listened to MacArthur, Paul Washer, Sproul, and others, and Derek has listened to Ray Comfort and has been devouring Spurgeon's sermons. As they hear the Word preached and taught, it is amazing to see how it molds them.

Eph 4:11 11And He (A)gave (B)some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as (C)evangelists, and some as pastors and (D)teachers, 12(E)for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of (F)the body of Christ;

 

[Amy.G]

TC, it is a mystery. Me and my brother were talking about this the other day, and we came to the conclusion that Christians are sanctified by how much exposure they have to the truth, i.e. preaching and teaching. I was looking at the people in my church and people who seem to be spiritually stagnant. Then I seen my friend Derek and my brother Matt, both who have been saved for about a year and are growing leaps and bounds.

Matt and Derek both listen to great teachers and preachers, while the majority of other people at my church only listen to our Pastors sermons. Matt has listened to MacArthur, Paul Washer, Sproul, and others, and Derek has listened to Ray Comfort and has been devouring Spurgeon's sermons. As they hear the Word preached and taught, it is amazing to see how it molds them.

Eph 4:11 11And He (A)gave (B)some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as (C)evangelists, and some as pastors and (D)teachers, 12(E)for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of (F)the body of Christ;

I praise God for your friend's growth! But the real growth takes place when we sit down in the quiet with God's word and nothing else. I appreciate teachers, but too many times, especially with babes in Christ, our doctrine can be formed by the opinions of others instead of God's word.
We must be careful. Books are good, God's word is best.

The different growth rates are a mystery to me as well. We all have the same Spirit, yet we don't all have the same hunger for learning.

It's certainly a reminder of the greatness of God and our inability to comprehend it all. Maybe that's why He leaves some things unanswered. (at least for now)

 

[ReformedBaptist]

TC, it is a mystery. Me and my brother were talking about this the other day, and we came to the conclusion that Christians are sanctified by how much exposure they have to the truth, i.e. preaching and teaching. I was looking at the people in my church and people who seem to be spiritually stagnant. Then I seen my friend Derek and my brother Matt, both who have been saved for about a year and are growing leaps and bounds.

Matt and Derek both listen to great teachers and preachers, while the majority of other people at my church only listen to our Pastors sermons. Matt has listened to MacArthur, Paul Washer, Sproul, and others, and Derek has listened to Ray Comfort and has been devouring Spurgeon's sermons. As they hear the Word preached and taught, it is amazing to see how it molds them.

Eph 4:11 11And He (A)gave (B)some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as (C)evangelists, and some as pastors and (D)teachers, 12(E)for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of (F)the body of Christ;

Hey those other preachers are some really good ones! Spurgeon is an all time favorite of mine..

 

[skypair]

Dear skypair,

I submit to you that brother Martin is a child of God, a born again child of God. Why would you malign and slander your brother so? You ought not to treat the brethren this way.

Cause TC's "the man!" He knows God is free but he is trying to change what it means that God created us free like Him! It's great showmanship --- if God is free and can't choose bad, then we are free and can't choose good. Problem is, neither is a true statement.


skypair

 

[donnA]

Just so I have this straight -- they could live like an Arminian but not like a Calvinist?? A Calvinist couldn't just assume they were saved despite doing NOTHING that might merit God's grace??

I mean, that would conform to your sotierology of "unconditional election" and "total sovereignty of God" for someone not to do anything on behalf of his own salvation and then pretend to be "elect" by "holy living," wouldn't it?? If your answer is in the negative, pls explain for me.

skypair

if you ahve to merit God's grace, then it no longer grace, but an earned reward for good behavior. Thats not the bible defination of grace, you got backwards.

 

[donnA]

Cause TC's "the man!" He knows God is free but he is trying to change what it means that God created us free like Him! It's great showmanship --- if God is free and can't choose bad, then we are free and can't choose good. Problem is, neither is a true statement.


skypair

God created us to be able to chose good or bad, but your forgetting the fall, we all are sinners now because of it, we aren't the way God created us to be.

 

[webdog]

Can He Sin?

I've wrestled with this one. We know Christ was tempted in every way from Scripture, and to be tempted means the chance either to do something or not exists. If God could sin, though, He would cease to be God. That's a tough one.
Adam and Lucifer obviously could choose to sin without a sin nature, so this one is tough...

 

[skypair]

God created us to be able to chose good or bad, but your forgetting the fall, we all are sinners now because of it, we aren't the way God created us to be.

This is true, but is an infant a sinner? Or is a babe created just as innocent as Adam and, like Adam, chooses sin?

See, I see no "inherent" sin in a baby. Sin develops from instincts misapplied -- "I need" to "I want." Ezek 18:20 clearly says 2 things: 1) the babe bears none of the sin of its parents and 2) "the soul that sinneth, it shall surely die" (which presumes that one was once sinless before God.

skypair

 

[Rippon]

An infant is a sinner !

 

[skypair]

if you ahve to merit God's grace, then it no longer grace, but an earned reward for good behavior. Thats not the bible defination of grace, you got backwards.

Now sweetheart -- you know I'm not saying that. A "condition" of marriage is that you accept the proposal. If I get down on one knee and ask you to marry me and you are silent... and silent... and silent... and pretty soon you're dead, we haven't been married at all, now have we?

Of course, some people's approach to this is just to live together without the marriage but acting like it -- "playing house." Do you think God is amused when people come into His church to "play house?" Yeah, they want the "benes" but not the commitment of their whole lives -- and not on the "front end" to boot! I think your theology mistakes commitment for works on purpose, DonnA.

skypair

 

[webdog]

An infant is a sinner !

What sin have they committed...being conceived? Ludicrous...

 

[ReformedBaptist]

if you ahve to merit God's grace, then it no longer grace, but an earned reward for good behavior.

Amen. Romans 11:6 "And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work."

 

[christianyouth]

But the real growth takes place when we sit down in the quiet with God's word and nothing else. I appreciate teachers, but too many times, especially with babes in Christ, our doctrine can be formed by the opinions of others instead of God's word.
We must be careful. Books are good, God's word is best.

*Not trying to hijack this thread*

This is a common sentiment echoed in my denominational circle. That is, the idea that real growth comes from personal Bible study. I have tested this, and found this is not true, not only in my own life, but in the lives of others as well.

If spiritual growth could be achieved on our own, without a Pastor, then why did God specially call Preachers? Eph 4:11-12, as I quoted earlier, says that through preachers, teachers, apostles, and evangelists are we equipped for ministry, not through personal Bible study. I cut out personal devotions for about 2-3 months. I did not read the Word much, but each morning I would watch Sproul, listen to other preachers and read Christian books, and I grew more in that time then when I was studying the Bible on my own.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

*Not trying to hijack this thread*

This is a common sentiment echoed in my denominational circle. That is, the idea that real growth comes from personal Bible study. I have tested this, and found this is not true, not only in my own life, but in the lives of others as well.

If spiritual growth could be achieved on our own, without a Pastor, then why did God specially call Preachers? Eph 4:11-12, as I quoted earlier, says that through preachers, teachers, apostles, and evangelists are we equipped for ministry, not through personal Bible study. I cut out personal devotions for about 2-3 months. I did not read the Word much, but each morning I would watch Sproul, listen to other preachers and read Christian books, and I grew more in that time then when I was studying the Bible on my own.

Amen brother. I thought the same too, but didn't want to say it. I am glad you did!

 

[Amy.G]

*Not trying to hijack this thread*

This is a common sentiment echoed in my denominational circle. That is, the idea that real growth comes from personal Bible study. I have tested this, and found this is not true, not only in my own life, but in the lives of others as well.

If spiritual growth could be achieved on our own, without a Pastor, then why did God specially call Preachers? Eph 4:11-12, as I quoted earlier, says that through preachers, teachers, apostles, and evangelists are we equipped for ministry, not through personal Bible study. I cut out personal devotions for about 2-3 months. I did not read the Word much, but each morning I would watch Sproul, listen to other preachers and read Christian books, and I grew more in that time then when I was studying the Bible on my own.

I never said that we should ignore pastors and teachers. God gave them to us. You have misunderstood me. But even the greatest teacher is a mere man and cannot compare to the inerrancy of God's word.

No teacher or preacher comes close to God's Holy Word. That is all I'm saying.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.