A pedophile among us

[gb93433]

Personally, I believe some sins are worse than others and Pedeophile is up among the worst along with murder and probably above murder because of the verse I just quoted.

1Cor 6:18 Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Thinkingstuff: Your point is taken in that most denominations claim that no sin is greater than any other as they all seperate us from God. Being a Pedeophile seperates as much as a white lie.

HP: There are a lot of individuals that openly say that no sin will separate one from God. I can think of no worse influence upon the Church than such sentiment.

 

[annsni]

HP: You make no sense. If a man becomes a believer, he is accepted by God as a believer. It is those that hold to OSAS, like yourself, that hold the position that once accepted always accepted. Now you try to have it both ways. You tell us the change comes SUBSEQUENT to salvation, yet you contradict yourself when you say IF one does not change you would question whether he was indwelt with the Holy Spirit. If you are saved apart from change, what would it matter as far as your salvation is concerned whether you subsequently change or not? If you are saved as a sinner, why cannot you remain as a saved sinner? If you are save apart from change, why will God not keep you apart from change? Will He finally reject one that he has saved?

Ann, you have created a real problem with your understanding of whgat salvation entails, When you place all change subsequent to salvation, being born again and yet still the sinner you have always been, you have no more right to even think for a minute that God will ever reject anyone once born because they did not further change subsequent to salvation if you hold to OSAS. You need to take your notions of salvation back to the drawing board and develop a salvation that makes sense and is at least somewhat consistent.

I get it!! So we must be perfect before we become Christians. We must not only repent of our sin but be fully delivered from it and come to God already clean. Now I understand your view. :thumbsup:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Sorry Ann, you still don't get it.

 

[annsni]

Sorry Ann, you still don't get it.

Nor do you.

 

[gb93433]

HP: There are a lot of individuals that openly say that no sin will separate one from God. I can think of no worse influence upon the Church than such sentiment.

God judges too. While we may tend to sympathize with people God still judges. There are certain things that may tend to appear not sympathetic or illogical but God has the last word. In the Bible God still declares what is sin and what is proper. He does not want leaders that lead in sin.

 

[preacher4truth]

It sounds more like a guy joining the lodge, 'Hey, you're a good feller, we'd like someone good like you to join the lodge!'

So much for the work of the Spirit, convincing men of sin, righteousness, and judgment.

 

[convicted1]

I do not believe that pedophilia is the unforgiveable sin and I believe that someone who is a pedophile ends up not only having a behavior that is wrong but also ends up rewiring their brain to desire this so much. If they were to come to Christ, I don't believe that always will this desire go away the second they are saved but instead it could very well be a struggle for the rest of their lives. It's no different from someone who was a homosexual, who was into porn, or who was an alcoholic or drug abuser. They will struggle with this forever most likely. Yes, some are delivered but some are not.

So yes, I believe one can be both but it would not be one who is actively pursuing the pedophilia as a practice. I do believe that the Spirit will be doing a work in them to convict them of that sin and to help them fight it - but it will most likely always be there in them as a struggle to overcome. Eventually the struggle will most likely be very small as he overcomes the sin but I wonder if it will ever fully be gone.

Sissy, with all due respect, a tree is known by it's fruit. An apple tree can not produce pineapples.

 

[gb93433]

Sissy, with all due respect, a tree is known by it's fruit. An apple tree can not produce pineapples.

some would use the argument that God would if He wanted. The problem is that is not what He chose to do.

 

[seekingthetruth]

Pedophilia is one of the few crimes that is a sickness. Most pedophiles never overcome this sickness, even after 20 years in prison most of them do it again.

I am quite sure that the 3 pedophiles in my church struggle everyday with their sick desires, and the only way they stay straight is through divine intervention.

I believe they will always have the desire, but that God gives them the strength to overcome that desire.

This is why I say that keeping them away from the kids is just as much for the pedophiles protection as it is for the kids.

As Ann said, it just makes sense.

I also believe that this is why the Bible addresses sexual sins as "abominations", because these desires run deeper than the need to lie or steal.

Can a pedophile be saved? Of course he can. I dont think a pedophile ever becomes a non-pedophile in his desires. He can be forgiven, and he can resist the desire through the strength of the Lord, but because of his sickness, he is always a pedophile in nature. What is important is that the saved pedophile (or any sinner) depend on God to resist his earthly urges, because if we depend on ourselves, we will fail.

Now, if God can forgive a pedophile, and help him overcome his sins, then we should also. But, that doesnt mean there are not consequences for his past.

And what makes this a more important issue than any other sin? Because this sin ruins the lives of children for life.

So, all of you that think being a pedophile is the same as being any other sinner, (such as lieing, stealing or just gossiping) are wrong.

Pedophilia destroys others lives, not just the life of the one commiting the sin.

John

 

[saturneptune]

Ann,
I guess the practical everyday life question becomes, can a person who committed such a crime as child sex abuse ever again hold a position of trust in a job in relation to children? If we say no, does that imply that Jesus cannot change a person that much?

We had an odd case here in west Kentucky a few years ago. At one of the high schools, a groups of the kids (dont ask me how, I do not know) got hold of some porn films. Anyway, as they watched them, it became apparant that one of the stars was a teacher at their high school. The films had been made twelve years earlier. Of course, gleefully, the kids turned this in to authorities. Since the film, the woman had become a Christian, gotten married, and had a family. To make a long story short, she was fired.

I do not think the action was right. In the first place, where were the parents of these kids, and how did these kids get such films? Next, of the thousands that are made, how did they just happen to come across this teacher?

The bottom line question comes down to this: Are there certain sins or actions that result in a life time ban on certain occupations, even after repentance, forgiveness, and rehab?

 

[annsni]

Ann,
I guess the practical everyday life question becomes, can a person who committed such a crime as child sex abuse ever again hold a position of trust in a job in relation to children? If we say no, does that imply that Jesus cannot change a person that much?

We had an odd case here in west Kentucky a few years ago. At one of the high schools, a groups of the kids (dont ask me how, I do not know) got hold of some porn films. Anyway, as they watched them, it became apparant that one of the stars was a teacher at their high school. The films had been made twelve years earlier. Of course, gleefully, the kids turned this in to authorities. Since the film, the woman had become a Christian, gotten married, and had a family. To make a long story short, she was fired.

I do not think the action was right. In the first place, where were the parents of these kids, and how did these kids get such films? Next, of the thousands that are made, how did they just happen to come across this teacher?

The bottom line question comes down to this: Are there certain sins or actions that result in a life time ban on certain occupations, even after repentance, forgiveness, and rehab?

See, I would love to say that we could eventually trust them and allow them with children but that would be ignorant. First of all, ther will most likely a law stating that they cannot be around children. I also NEVER want to risk my kids and honestly, someone who has done this and repented would not even ask to be around children so as to not even bring in any doubt by others that they are safe. I believe they would understand the extreme harm they have done and be sure they were never in a position to be tempted or to risk being falsely accused, which would never end up beneficial to them.

 

[saturneptune]

See, I would love to say that we could eventually trust them and allow them with children but that would be ignorant. First of all, ther will most likely a law stating that they cannot be around children. I also NEVER want to risk my kids and honestly, someone who has done this and repented would not even ask to be around children so as to not even bring in any doubt by others that they are safe. I believe they would understand the extreme harm they have done and be sure they were never in a position to be tempted or to risk being falsely accused, which would never end up beneficial to them.

I can understand your point, and would not have let my kids into that situation. You are probably correct, that it should not be tested, not to say it happen, but it is not worth the risk at the expense of another child.

Do you think the case I described above is different than the acutal sexual abuse of a child?

 

[convicted1]

I do not believe that pedophilia is the unforgiveable sin and I believe that someone who is a pedophile ends up not only having a behavior that is wrong but also ends up rewiring their brain to desire this so much. If they were to come to Christ, I don't believe that always will this desire go away the second they are saved but instead it could very well be a struggle for the rest of their lives. It's no different from someone who was a homosexual, who was into porn, or who was an alcoholic or drug abuser. They will struggle with this forever most likely. Yes, some are delivered but some are not.

So yes, I believe one can be both but it would not be one who is actively pursuing the pedophilia as a practice. I do believe that the Spirit will be doing a work in them to convict them of that sin and to help them fight it - but it will most likely always be there in them as a struggle to overcome. Eventually the struggle will most likely be very small as he overcomes the sin but I wonder if it will ever fully be gone.

Well Sissy, a spring can not bring forth both sweet and bitter water, a tree is known by it's fruit, etc. I am under the belief that one who has been truly placed in Christ,they will not give in to such temptations. Temptations, by themselves, are not a sin. But if/when they succumb to them, they then become a sin. We have the Spirit in us that "whoas" us when we begin straying. I truly do not believe that one who is in Christ will be a pedophile. Not because of themselves, but because of Him who dwells in them.

 

[convicted1]

NO because if he did he would recognize he crucifies Christ (who he is supposed to love above all things) by that accursed sin of his. A Christian is a changed person.....he no longer wishes to sin. This pedophile however, premeditatedly hunted out these kids....NOT CHRISTIAN BEHAVIOR.

We have too many of the religious out there condoning sinful behavior rather than saving people. A saved person would not conduct himself thus.

Amen, Brother, amen!! Preach it!! :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

This is "music" to my eyes; not ears, because I can't hear your post. LOL

 

[Melanie]

Sadly, these types work their way into these positions by stealth and cunning. It has been a grievous and distressing thing to have happen in any church or indeed community.

However, the church is made up of human beings.....don't spurn God because the human structure is weak and frail....we all know this.

 

[gb93433]

People seem to think that only person is affected by a pedophile in a church. A friend of mine had a music leader in the church he pastored years ago. Then when he moved to another church and they needed the someone for the same position my friend recommended the same man. Both he and I had known him for over 15 years as doing a great job. Then one day the police showed up unannounced and arrested the music leader and took all of the computers in the church. The man was charged and found guilty. Things got so heated up that my pastor friend was blamed for recommending the music man. Eventually my friend left the church. His health got so bad that he was going downhill and I told him needed to do something. His wife finally told him to leave and they would do something and that God would provide. God did provide and gave him a ministry get the privilege of doing. The church he grew up in hired as their interim and then their pastor. He was honored as the home town boy to pastor the same church his parents were members of until they died. Imagine what kind of man would be welcomed to pastor the same church he grew up among people he knew from a little kid. That is the kind of men we need in pulpits today not pedophiles who are good orators. We do not need good orators. We need men of God that He uses because they know Him and have a deep passion to know Him more. That man is a great pastor who knows God and he encountered a situation he never intended to be a part of.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Sadly, these types work their way into these positions by stealth and cunning. It has been a grievous and distressing thing to have happen in any church or indeed community.

However, the church is made up of human beings.....don't spurn God because the human structure is weak and frail....we all know this.

I dont spurn God........but I do not see any good that church adds to my life ( & Ive been around awhile & been both member as well as tried out churches by visiting them). Church does not provide me with anything useful, & in my experience quite the opposite. While at church, I have been assaulted, humiliated, called a non believer & a reprobate, my wife was used, my kin have been physically abused. Ive also seen others abused & derided. Church is man made & mostly my experiences have been negative (though I used to try hard to be a church goer). Now I cannot even trust church. Besides the Lord tells you not to take oaths / to swear to. At this point, I dont feel like I am turning my back on church, rather I think church has turned its back on me.......mostly by being pathetic & weak in their own Christian walk. By being on my knees in prayer & by reading my bible, I believe I am far closer to my Lord & Savior than by being in church.

 

[preacher4truth]

I dont spurn God........but I do not see any good that church adds to my life ( & Ive been around awhile & been both member as well as tried out churches by visiting them). Church does not provide me with anything useful, & in my experience quite the opposite. While at church, I have been assaulted, humiliated, called a non believer & a reprobate, my wife was used, my kin have been physically abused. Ive also seen others abused & derided. Church is man made & mostly my experiences have been negative (though I used to try hard to be a church goer). Now I cannot even trust church. Besides the Lord tells you not to take oaths / to swear to. At this point, I dont feel like I am turning my back on church, rather I think church has turned its back on me.......mostly by being pathetic & weak in their own Christian walk. By being on my knees in prayer & by reading my bible, I believe I am far closer to my Lord & Savior than by being in church.

Church isn't 'man made.' You're completely wrong here.

Instead, it's the bride of Christ. You've had bad experiences, so have others.

Get over it.

Your maverick spirit that you're better off without Gods ordained means of service via your gifts through a local assembly is tragic and you remain a victim.

You know better than this.

You will be in my prayers.

 

[Melanie]

Oh dear, Earth,Wind and Fire.....

The church I attend has so many different people, the saintly, the caring,loving,generous and thoughtful. Balancing this are the scandelous, grasping, venial, backbiting and downright irritating.

We are all united in loving the Lord despite everything. The mix of folks has not changed since the Lord walked on this earth. He forgave us....why can't you?

I pray you have a holy and joyous Easter.

(Please note, I do NOT condone paedophillia, child abuse or any other abuse. To so damage a child is unspeakable, {"Vengenance is mine, saith the Lord'})