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A Perfect Righteousness

KenH

Well-Known Member
Yes....here is another solid quote of truth from scripture. Some do not like it.

Praise be to God that all of His elect, at some point during their earthly sojourn, will be brought by the Holy Spirit, under the preaching of the gospel of the finished work of Christ Jesus, to like, yea, to love the truth taught in the Holy Scriptures.
 

Zaatar71

Active Member
More shooting the messenger, but not a verse of support.
God desires all people to be saved, 1 Timothy 2:4. To provide the means of reconciliation for all people, Christ died as a ransom for all. 1 Timothy 2:6. He purchased or bought those to be saved and those never to be saved. 2 Peter 2:1.
I can agree that He bought the rights to all men, but His death was strictly a Covenant death, fixed and certain. In other words He saves all He intended to save, there is no doubt, speculation or guess work. The Lord knows those who are His;
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"who privily shall bring in damnable heresies: errors in the fundamental doctrines of the Gospel; such as relate to a trinity of persons in the Godhead; and to the person of Christ, to his proper deity, distinct personality, eternal sonship, and real humanity; and to his office as Mediator, rejecting him as the true Messiah, and as the only Saviour of sinners; denying his sacrifice and satisfaction, and the imputation of his righteousness; and to the Holy Spirit, his deity, personality, and divine influences and operations: these are "damnable", or "destructive", or "heresies of destruction"; which lead to eternal destruction both those that introduce and propagate them, and those that embrace and profess them; for they remove, or attempt to remove, the foundation of eternal life and happiness: the manner in which these are usually introduced is "privily"; at unawares, secretly, under a disguise, and gradually, by little and little, and not at once, and openly; and which is the constant character and practice of such men, who lie in wait to deceive, creep into churches...unawares, and into houses privately; and insinuate their principles under specious pretences and appearances of truth, using the hidden things of dishonesty, walking in craftiness, handling the word of God deceitfully, and colouring things with false glosses and feigned words: and even denying the Lord that bought them; not the Lord Jesus Christ, but God the Father; for the word κυριος is not here used, which always is where Christ is spoken of as the Lord, but δεσποτης; and which is expressive of the power which masters have over their servants, and which God has over all mankind; and wherever this word is elsewhere used, it is spoken of God the Father, whenever applied to a divine person, as in Luke 2:29 and especially this appears to be the sense, from the parallel text in Jude 1:4 where the Lord God denied by those men is manifestly distinguished from our Lord Jesus Christ, and by whom these persons are said to be bought: the meaning is not that they were redeemed by the blood of Christ, for Christ is not intended; and besides, whenever redemption by Christ is spoken of, the price is usually mentioned, or some circumstance or another which fully determines the sense; see Acts 20:28 whereas here is not the least hint of anything of this kind: add to this, that such who are redeemed by Christ are the elect of God only, the people of Christ, his sheep and friends, and church, and who are never left to deny him so as to perish eternally; for could such be lost, or deceive, or be deceived finally and totally by damnable heresies, and bring on themselves swift destruction, Christ's purchase would be in vain, and the ransom price be paid for nought; but the word "bought" regards temporal mercies and deliverance, which these men enjoyed, and is used as an aggravation of their sin in denying the Lord; both by words, delivering out such tenets as are derogatory to the glory of the divine perfections, and which deny one or other of them, and of his purposes, providence, promises, and truths; and by works, turning the doctrine of the grace of God into lasciviousness, being disobedient and reprobate to every good work; that they should act this part against the Lord who had made them, and upheld them in their beings and took care of them in his providence, and had followed them with goodness and mercy all the days of their lives."

- excerpt from John Gill's Bible commentary on 2 Peter 2:1
1) Abraham's bosom exists
2) Christ died as a ransom for all 1 Timothy 2:6
3) All people were thus purchased, those to be saved and those never to be saved. 2 Peter 2:1
4) Christ became the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity. 1 John 2:2
5) Only those individuals whose faith God credits as righteousness are transferred into Christ and made perfect by the washing of regeneration Hebrews 10:4
6) Our regeneration resulted in being made alive together with Christ. Ephesians 2:5
7) Everyone given (transferred into) Christ will not be cast out.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I can agree that He bought the rights to all men, but His death was strictly a Covenant death, fixed and certain. In other words He saves all He intended to save, there is no doubt, speculation or guess work. The Lord knows those who are His;
Yes, the Lord knows who are His, as they have been transferred into Him.

Yes, the Lord saves all He intends to save, those given to Him by the Father.

Yes, the Lord will not cast out any of His sheep, no doubt about it.
 

Zaatar71

Active Member
Yes, the Lord knows who are His, as they have been transferred into Him.
They were given to Him before the world was.

Yes, the Lord saves all He intends to save, those given to Him by the Father.

Yes, the Lord will not cast out any of His sheep, no doubt about it.

1]They were given to Him before the world was.

2]Glad we agree here...He saves all He intends to, those given to Him by the Father.

3] We agree here also. Not one sheep will be cast out.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1]They were given to Him before the world was.

2]Glad we agree here...He saves all He intends to, those given to Him by the Father.

3] We agree here also. Not one sheep will be cast out.
Not what John 6:37 says. as those given "come to Me" thus they exist, which makes your claim false.
 

Zaatar71

Active Member
Not what John 6:37 says. as those given "come to Me" thus they exist, which makes your claim false.
Why do you never stay consistent? They were given before time...They are called he elect in scripture.
look here: Heb.2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

They were given to Him before He was Incarnate. How can you fail to see this??? Are you a new Christian? Have you not received instruction? Many here can help you, if you want help.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Why do you never stay consistent? They were given before time...They are called he elect in scripture.
look here: Heb.2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

They were given to Him before He was Incarnate. How can you fail to see this??? Are you a new Christian? Have you not received instruction? Many here can help you, if you want help.
The claim I am not consistent is false.

No one was given to Him before He died on the Cross, and then only after God subsequently gave them as existing entities (human spirits created since Genesis 1.

In the Hebrews passage you cited, clearly those given are existent human spirits, embodied in flesh and blood. Were these human spirits sanctified in the past, or are they being sanctified (given to Christ) in the present?

The evidence is right there, so I expect you to see it.
 

Zaatar71

Active Member
The claim I am not consistent is false.

No one was given to Him before He died on the Cross, and then only after God subsequently gave them as existing entities (human spirits created since Genesis 1.

In the Hebrews passage you cited, clearly those given are existent human spirits, embodied in flesh and blood. Were these human spirits sanctified in the past, or are they being sanctified (given to Christ) in the present?

The evidence is right there, so I expect you to see it.
They were given before the incarnation. Existing entities??? Where do you see that in scripture?
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
They were given before the incarnation. Existing entities??? Where do you see that in scripture?
That is the question for you. If you do not see the problem with sanctification in the present, when you claim it occurred before creation, there is nothing I can say.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
2 Corinthians 5:8, We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Who knows the purpose of this post? Is the poster claiming Jesus was wrong about the existence of Abraham's bosom during the Old Covenant, or just that under the New Covenant, since when transferred (set apart or sanctified) into Christ, the individuals are now made perfect, Hebrews 10:4, and therefore go directly to heaven where they are enrolled in the general assembly, Hebrews 12:23.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Hebrews 10:14 NASB
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are
being s
anctified.

Hebrews 12:23-22-23 NASB
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of Angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

So the OT Saints had to wait until Christ's sacrificial death in Abraham's bosom, but now, having been made perfect in Christ, they are in heaven.

Hebrews 11:39-40 NASB
And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised,
because God had provided something better for us,
so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.
 
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Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
And now for believers, 2 Corinthians 5:8, We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Is the poster claiming Jesus was wrong about the existence of Abraham's bosom during the Old Covenant, or just that under the New Covenant, since when transferred (set apart or sanctified) into Christ, the individuals are now made perfect, Hebrews 10:14, and therefore go directly to heaven where they are enrolled in the general assembly, Hebrews 12:23.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
Christ is the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. (Revelation 13:8)

Therefore, since whatever God purposes must come about without fail, including all things He has purposed to happen, in time, on this earth, Abraham and all of God's elect who lived and died before Christ died on the cross were justified, redeemed, saved and their souls went to be with God in anticipation of the Surety Who would die for them physically in time on this earth, just as the souls of those of His elect who died or will die after Christ died on the cross.

We are time-bound creatures on this earth; therefore, we have great difficulty in understanding how there is no past nor future with God. With God all things exist NOW and have always existed to Him. God only deals with the terms "past" and "future" in communicating with His time-bound creatures.

With God all things are present tense.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Revelations 13:8 NASB
All who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been ]written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered.

Notice that Revelation 13:8 does not say nor suggest Christ was slain from the foundation of the world?

What does it actually say, names of the unsaved have not been written in the Lamb's book of life since humanity fell into its sinful state.

Christ was foreknown to be the Lamb of God before the foundation of the world, not since, 1 Peter 1:20
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
Revelations 13:8 NASB
All who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been ]written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered.

Revelation 13:8 Young's Literal Translation 1898

And bow before it shall all who are dwelling upon the land, whose names have not been written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Yes, Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world - Acts 4:27-28 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, for to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

(emphasis mine)
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Revelation 13:8 Young's Literal Translation 1898

And bow before it shall all who are dwelling upon the land, whose names have not been written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Yes, Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world - Acts 4:27-28 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, for to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

(emphasis mine)
More denial that your claims are based on mistaken translation choices.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
More denial that your claims are based on mistaken translation choices.

Here it is in the Greek: Revelation 13:8 καὶ προσκυνήσουσιν αὐτῷ πάντες οἱ κατοικοῦντες ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς ὧν οὗ γέγραπται τὰ ὄνοματα ἐν τῇ βίβλῳ τῆς ζωῆς τοῦ ἀρνίου ἐσφαγμένου ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου

The last three words mean: from "from founding of the world", just as the KJV has it.
 
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