A POSITIVE Emerging Illustration

[dan e.]

Helping others is spreading the love of Jesus? That's a new one.

:applause:

 

[preachinjesus]

It is hard to debate with someone when the foundations are gone.

lol...I barely know how to reply to this...

From your posts I see that most of the foundations to the Christian faith, especially conversion, are missing in your doctrine. So for me to even communicate the folly of lifestyle evangelism is a huge task.

You know, we're not that far apart on age (as far as I can tell) but I really can't understand how you can begin to believe that I have no foundations of the Christian faith in my theology.

That is arrogant and, to be honest, cowardly. Easy to throw bricks but to back them up is something more significant. How can you accuse me of heresy and blaspheming Christ's name (fairly significant accusations) without every asking me direction questions?

How do you know what I believe about the true foundations of the Christian faith? Have you asked me?

Maybe a better question: can you list for me where you think, specifically, I am erring in the foundations of the Christian faith (and not some doctrinal or peripherial area)?

I'd be interested in seeing your list of what is foundational for the Christian faith before I can appropriately reply. I think we might be approaching this completely differently.

 

[booklady]

I have an idea. Instead of pointing fingers and saying how wrong the other guy's church is, maybe we could put our eyes on Jesus, love Him and serve Him.

Naaaahhhh... this is a lot more fun.

 

[Cutter]

Naaaahhhh... this is a lot more fun.

Fun, but fruitless. You make a good point.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

God promised his word will not come back void...

A church that is truly doing what God wants will grow...
That is the way God designed it.

I would like to see your scriptual support for this.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Helping others is spreading the love of Jesus? That's a new one.

There is nothing new about.

 

[JustPassingThru]

Helping others is spreading the love of Jesus? That's a new one.

Huh? At the least, helping others is an expression of our love for Jesus. I don't think it's a stretch to say it is also spreading the love of Jesus.

Matt 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

​

 

[JustPassingThru]

I have an idea. Instead of pointing fingers and saying how wrong the other guy's church is, maybe we could put our eyes on Jesus, love Him and serve Him.

AMEN! God's body has many members, each committed to glorifying Christ in their own ways. Fingers do things much differently than livers! Can it be that God uses those who have a "missional" approach, and God uses those who have a traditional approach? One does not exclude the other -- we should all be open to God's leading us to try new things, but that does not necessarily mean we all throw out the old things. "Put our eyes on Jesus, love him, and serve him" using the tools and talents God has given each of our local churches. Bottom line -- the Spirit does the work, and the Spirit can and does use any number of tools.

 

[booklady]

I have an idea. Instead of pointing fingers and saying how wrong the other guy's church is, maybe we could put our eyes on Jesus, love Him and serve Him.

Naaaahhhh... this is a lot more fun.

This is an example of what I meant by "I can get sarcastic sometimes." Forgive me, please.

 

[lbaker]

Wow! I am totally shocked by the negative responses to the OP.

Originally Posted by christianyouth
Helping others is spreading the love of Jesus? That's a new one.

I can't believe someone actually said that.

The church I'm part of is just starting up a similar ministry.

Les

 

[christianyouth]

Huh? At the least, helping others is an expression of our love for Jesus. I don't think it's a stretch to say it is also spreading the love of Jesus.

Matt 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

​

Spreading the love of Jesus? Spreading the love of Jesus is evangelizing. My antagonism is justified. What does this mean, spreading the love of Jesus? Jesus said, "Unless you will repent, ye will likewise perish." That is spreading the love of Jesus.

 

[christianyouth]

lol...I barely know how to reply to this...



You know, we're not that far apart on age (as far as I can tell) but I really can't understand how you can begin to believe that I have no foundations of the Christian faith in my theology.

That is arrogant and, to be honest, cowardly. Easy to throw bricks but to back them up is something more significant. How can you accuse me of heresy and blaspheming Christ's name (fairly significant accusations) without every asking me direction questions?

How do you know what I believe about the true foundations of the Christian faith? Have you asked me?

Maybe a better question: can you list for me where you think, specifically, I am erring in the foundations of the Christian faith (and not some doctrinal or peripherial area)?

I'd be interested in seeing your list of what is foundational for the Christian faith before I can appropriately reply. I think we might be approaching this completely differently.

You are Arminian. Arminianism is toxic. It is an infection that invades one's whole theology. You are an Arminian, and believe men have the free choice to choose God. I am a Calvinist and believe men is dead and sin and has no hope to be saved apart from the sovreign grace of God. Our ideas of evangelism will be different. I believe doing good works does not add credibility to the Gospel. Man is dead in sin, the only thing that can raise him to life is the Word. So of course I am not going to get distracted with mowing yards and cleaning barbershops. This is an Arminian pursuit.

 

[tinytim]

You are Arminian. Arminianism is toxic. It is an infection that invades one's whole theology. You are an Arminian, and believe men have the free choice to choose God. I am a Calvinist and believe men is dead and sin and has no hope to be saved apart from the sovreign grace of God. Our ideas of evangelism will be different. I believe doing good works does not add credibility to the Gospel. Man is dead in sin, the only thing that can raise him to life is the Word. So of course I am not going to get distracted with mowing yards and cleaning barbershops. This is an Arminian pursuit.

This explains your warped sense of helping others in Jesus' name...
and that you do not have to live a Christlike life... (from another thread)

Just sit there in your knowledge, and puffed up wisdom, and watch people die and go to Hell, and one day when you stand before God, you will get a dressing down...

I know some calvinists, and brother, they are not as callous as you are.
I hope that with age comes wisdom in your case, because you need some real love for others...

 

[tinytim]

Wow! I am totally shocked by the negative responses to the OP.

Originally Posted by christianyouth
Helping others is spreading the love of Jesus? That's a new one.

I can't believe someone actually said that.

The church I'm part of is just starting up a similar ministry.

Les

OUr whole state convention will be doing this next month...
Over 200 churches with the West Virginia Baptist Convention will converge on the city of Parkersburg, WV for our annual meeting, and just like last yr, we will be having a Blessing Blitz... Here is the info from our state convention's website...
[SIZE=+1]Annual Meeting Blessing Blitz[/SIZE]


In 2006, the West Virginia Baptist Convention family "blitzed" Charleston with blessings as we gathered in various areas of the city to actively show the love of Christ. Groups assisted at Goodwill, Matty V. Lee House, a men's homeless shelter, West Virginia HealthRite and Mountain Mission. Others cleaned up a local playground, read to children at a local grade school and went on prayer walks throughout the city. Still others spent time cutting and rolling White Cross bandages, had special prayer for a variety of requests, passed out bottled water to passersby on the river front and worked with the Senior Adult program at the Charleston First Baptist Church.

This year,

WE ARE DOING A BLESSING BLITZ IN PARKERSBURG!​

Please plan to join us for much fun and fellowship. Help to show Christ's love to the city by being a part of one of the groups. There will be something for everyone to participate in. A list of opportunities will be in an upcoming issue of the West Virginia Baptist newsletter.

http://www.wvbc.org/pages.asp?pageid=60983

Imagine 200 churches all in one city doing this work!
We will be in soup kitchens, reading to Children in the public schools, allowing children to read to us, cleaning public parks, giving out water, etc.. I heard at our pastor's meeting yesterday, there will be over 20 ministries to choose from..

Sorry if it rubs some of you all the wrong way... but you now have something to preach against Sunday morning!

No, I am not sorry! For God didn't call us to set still! And you can stay in your dried up, stuffy churches and watch the rest of the world go to Hell while you are proud you are part of the "elect" if you want to..

We are going to win souls!
Signed, one aggravated, fuming pastor in WV!

 

[tinytim]

Spreading the love of Jesus? Spreading the love of Jesus is evangelizing. My antagonism is justified. What does this mean, spreading the love of Jesus? Jesus said, "Unless you will repent, ye will likewise perish." That is spreading the love of Jesus.

Brother if you don't know how to spread the love of Jesus, go pick up a Bible, and develop a relationship with him, and grow up some...

 

[christianyouth]

This explains your warped sense of helping others in Jesus' name...
and that you do not have to live a Christlike life... (from another thread)

Just sit there in your knowledge, and puffed up wisdom, and watch people die and go to Hell, and one day when you stand before God, you will get a dressing down...

I know some calvinists, and brother, they are not as callous as you are.
I hope that with age comes wisdom in your case, because you need some real love for others...

I think me and you have a different definition of love for others. You see it as making their journey to hell as comfortable as possible. Just clean those barbershops, mow those lawns, pat yourself on the back, you've done a good deed.

I see loving others as explaining to them their danger. They have broken God's law. God's justice demands their blood. There is only once way to be saved; repenting from their sin and throwing themselves upon God's mercy revealed in Jesus Christ.

 

[tinytim]

I think me and you have a different definition of love for others. You see it as making their journey to hell as comfortable as possible. Just clean those barbershops, mow those lawns, pat yourself on the back, you've done a good deed.

I see loving others as explaining to them their danger. They have broken God's law. God's justice demands their blood. There is only once way to be saved; repenting from their sin and throwing themselves upon God's mercy revealed in Jesus Christ.

That's where you are wrong...
by cleaning barbershops, mowing lawns, cleaning parks, etc... People become curious... (some calvinists call it God drawing them) they ask us, why we are doing this... and BAM... We get to share with them the Gospel..

Now the free willer will say we are helping them come to Christ.
The calvinist will say that our actions were preordained to raise their curiosity, and the Holy Spirit draws them to Christ...

But either way, the same result... A soul is saved from hell!
Why complain about the way a soul is saved... we are both on the same side! We both want others saved... you do it your way, i will do it mine...
But let's not sit here and argue... let's get out there and do it!

 

[christianyouth]

That's where you are wrong...
by cleaning barbershops, mowing lawns, cleaning parks, etc... People become curious... (some calvinists call it God drawing them) they ask us, why we are doing this... and BAM... We get to share with them the Gospel..

Now the free willer will say we are helping them come to Christ.
The calvinist will say that our actions were preordained to raise their curiosity, and the Holy Spirit draws them to Christ...

But either way, the same result... A soul is saved from hell!
Why complain about the way a soul is saved... we are both on the same side! We both want others saved... you do it your way, i will do it mine...
But let's not sit here and argue... let's get out there and do it!

Because this is important. I don't want to hinder you or discourage you to evangelize, I want you to shed the deadweight that is holding you back from preaching the Gospel. You have to go clean barbershops, mow lawns, do all of that just to share the Gospel. You are investing time and energy into that, to supposibly create opportunities. And then you actually WAIT until someone asks you, 'why are you doing this' until you share the Gospel! What if they don't ask you? Then you can do like I used to do, and just say, "Well, it is not the right time." I've been down this road, it is hampering, it is frustrating, and it isn't biblical.

 

[tinytim]

You make it sound so bad, and horrible to help people... I enjoy it!
And no, we don't always wait to share the gospel... it depends on the situation...and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

I guess we disagree... That's ok.

 

[preachinjesus]

for starters bro, I asked you to define a set of foundational doctrines, you haven't done that. All you've done is thrown around more accusations and vitriol.

You are Arminian.

no, no I'm not. You know there are more options than Calvinist vs. Arminian.

Arminianism is toxic. It is an infection that invades one's whole theology.

It isn't toxic. It's another option of theology. I don't ascribe to it, but it isn't toxic.

You are an Arminian, and believe men have the free choice to choose God.

This isn't the limit of Arminianism. Read up a little bit.

I am a Calvinist and believe men is dead and sin and has no hope to be saved apart from the sovreign grace of God. Our ideas of evangelism will be different. I believe doing good works does not add credibility to the Gospel. Man is dead in sin, the only thing that can raise him to life is the Word. So of course I am not going to get distracted with mowing yards and cleaning barbershops. This is an Arminian pursuit.

Have you read The Institutes?

Looking forward to that list.