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A POSITIVE Emerging Illustration

Timsings

Member
Site Supporter
JustPassingThru said:
Huh? At the least, helping others is an expression of our love for Jesus. I don't think it's a stretch to say it is also spreading the love of Jesus.
Matt 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’



I have been slogging through the muck of this thread looking to see if anyone was ever going to cite this passage of scripture. The late John Claypool used to refer to this passage as God's Final Exam. The thing that has always interested me about it is that both groups are surprised about their reward or punishment. I take from that that the righteous had responded to the needy on their own merit. They didn't view them as an opportunity to share the gospel. They viewed them as people in need. I've had a lot of problems reading this thread because of the negativity, the judgmentalism, and the use of doctrine as a club to bash other posters.

The way this church has been bashed reminds me of the story of Jesus teaching in a synagogue on the Sabbath. He healed a woman who was bent over and unable to straighten up. The leader of the synagogue said that she should have come to be healed on some other day beside the Sabbath (Luke 13.10-17).

The history of Christianity is, among other things, the history of division, the history of people who can't get along with each other. And, in the last 75 years, baptists have raised the bar. It is no wonder that we have such a bad reputation and that baptisms and membership are down. We are letting our doctrinal disputes and our religion get in the way of our living out our faith. Paul Tillich called this elevating trivial matters to the level of absolutes. Now that is sin. We need to watch this church because they are binding up wounds in a broken world and setting an example that other churches can follow.

Tim Reynolds
 

dan e.

New Member
christianyouth said:
Spreading the love of Jesus? Spreading the love of Jesus is evangelizing. My antagonism is justified. What does this mean, spreading the love of Jesus? Jesus said, "Unless you will repent, ye will likewise perish." That is spreading the love of Jesus.

If there is ever a time to take a break from all your books that have inflated your head, and even this board, which sometimes tempts you to say stupid things....that time for you is now.
 

2 Timothy2:1-4

New Member
Originally Posted by christianyouth
Spreading the love of Jesus? Spreading the love of Jesus is evangelizing. My antagonism is justified. What does this mean, spreading the love of Jesus? Jesus said, "Unless you will repent, ye will likewise perish." That is spreading the love of Jesus.

If there is ever a time to take a break from all your books that have inflated your head, and even this board, which sometimes tempts you to say stupid things....that time for you is now.


Dan I must say I agree. CY failing to preach sin, repentence and hell waters down the gospel most certainly. Your view of love, however, distorts it in such a way that I now understand where some of the comments in this thread have come from regard screaming at people about their sins. Your view of the gospel doesn't make heaven look all that much different than hell. Preach on sin and repentence but do it with a broken heart for the lost. Psalm 126:6
 

christianyouth

New Member
2 Timothy2:1-4 said:
Dan I must say I agree. CY failing to preach sin, repentence and hell waters down the gospel most certainly. Your view of love, however, distorts it in such a way that I now understand where some of the comments in this thread have come from regard screaming at people about their sins. Your view of the gospel doesn't make heaven look all that much different than hell. Preach on sin and repentence but do it with a broken heart for the lost. Psalm 126:6

Timothy, as new creatures in Christ we DO love. It is our new nature. I am not advocating being grim and hateful, and using preaching as an outlet for bitterness. I am saying that the sentimental evangelical mush that is taught in the great majority of churches, is NOT LOVE. I walked that path, I did many good deeds to the lost, I would eat dinner with them, build friendships with them. I was thoroughly immersed in lifestyle evangelism. Then I came into contact with WOTM, an organization that is designed to teach Christians to share their faith biblically. It shattered my views of Lifestyle Evangelism. Then as I read more of Scripture, I began to see that what I viewed as love before, and what gave me that great feeling, was useless. It was a much different style of love than I seen in the NT.
 

2 Timothy2:1-4

New Member
christianyouth said:
Timothy, as new creatures in Christ we DO love. It is our new nature. I am not advocating being grim and hateful, and using preaching as an outlet for bitterness. I am saying that the sentimental evangelical mush that is taught in the great majority of churches, is NOT LOVE. I walked that path, I did many good deeds to the lost, I would eat dinner with them, build friendships with them. I was thoroughly immersed in lifestyle evangelism. Then I came into contact with WOTM, an organization that is designed to teach Christians to share their faith biblically. It shattered my views of Lifestyle Evangelism. Then as I read more of Scripture, I began to see that what I viewed as love before, and what gave me that great feeling, was useless. It was a much different style of love than I seen in the NT.

Well I then think you are making some assumptions about some folks on the board. Maybe you should ask questions if someones view seems doubtful and get your suspicions confirmed before you come to conclusions about them.
 

christianyouth

New Member
2 Timothy2:1-4 said:
Well I then think you are making some assumptions about some folks on the board. Maybe you should ask questions if someones view seems doubtful and get your suspicions confirmed before you come to conclusions about them.

I pay attention to detail. I have refrained from responding to numerous posts by preachingjesus in the past, because I figured that online debates would not convince someone in the ministry that their views are wrong. I wouldn't make an accusation if it was unfounded. ANYONE who believes in lifestyle evangelism, I can say without a doubt, that they do not understand conversion. Simple. It's not a personal attack. I remember threads where we talked about the role of music, hip-hop church, different threads that revealed that the majority of people on this board are basically pragmatic and humanistic in their philosophy of evangelism. Preachingjesus, is just consistent with his theology. Just as I am consistent with mine.
 

preachinjesus

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
christianyouth said:
I pay attention to detail. I have refrained from responding to numerous posts by preachingjesus in the past, because I figured that online debates would not convince someone in the ministry that their views are wrong... Preachingjesus, is just consistent with his theology. Just as I am consistent with mine.

hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha

I'm sorry this is sooooooo funnny...:laugh:

okay, seriously...I've asked you for a list of doctrines you think are foundational and where I am wrong, lol, in my views of foundational doctrines for the Christian life.

looking forward to that list:saint:
 

christianyouth

New Member
preachinjesus said:
hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha

I'm sorry this is sooooooo funnny...:laugh:

okay, seriously...I've asked you for a list of doctrines you think are foundational and where I am wrong, lol, in my views of foundational doctrines for the Christian life.

looking forward to that list:saint:

Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints
 

preachinjesus

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
lol...again, have you read The Institutes?

christianyouth said:
Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints

oh that's nice, but I noticed a couple of things.

1. Is this list exhaustive? I mean what about:
* Divinity of Christ
* Authority of the Bible
* Trinity
* Virgin Birth
* Original Sin
* anything about Theology Proper
* the Church
* exclusivity of Christianity
* Hell
* Heaven
* Second Coming of Christ
* Millenial Reign

I can go on but I'm just hitting the foundational ones here.

2. The list is a series of doctrines that, depending on who is defining them, can be interpretted differently. For instance, I readily agree that mankind is depraved but don't believe salvation is limited to a select group of people predetermined before (temporal sense not locative sense.) I do however believe that salvation is exclusively limited to those who confess with mouths and believe in their hearts Jesus Christ. Likewise I completely agree with perseverance of the saints, but also believe that God allows us the decision to follow His call to salvation or deny it since God doesn't want mindless automnatons.

3. There has to be something more foundational about Christianity than these limited five doctrines. Particularly since no one had these doctrines like this until the 16th century, what about all the millions of faithful believers who never expressed (or signed on the dotted line) to these five doctrines?

looking forward to you next reply
 

dan e.

New Member
christianyouth said:
Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints

oh brother....you should have taken my advice about that little break I suggested. Can you not recognize the corner you've backed yourself into?

Seriously...you have some rethinking and praying to do about your views.
 

PastorSBC1303

Active Member
Many of us were know-it-all theologians at that age.

Thankfully, most of us, grew out of it and learned some humility and grace in these types of discussions.

Like has been mentioned, I have to admire his zeal.
 

christianyouth

New Member
dan e. said:
oh brother....you should have taken my advice about that little break I suggested. Can you not recognize the corner you've backed yourself into?

Seriously...you have some rethinking and praying to do about your views.

It's not a corner, Dan. I know what I'm standing for is the truth. In a post-modern, relatavistic society, that may be seen as bigoted. I assure you it's not. I have seen the dammage that friendship evangelism has done. I was immersed in that form of evangelism for awhile. It is severely frustrating and actually discourages preaching the Gospel with words, in favor of somehow preaching it with your life. This is not just a pointless debate, some medium through which I can point my frustration.
 

steveo

New Member
PastorSBC1303 said:
Many of us were know-it-all theologians at that age.

Thankfully, most of us, grew out of it and learned some humility and grace in these types of discussions.

Like has been mentioned, I have to admire his zeal.

I agree that he has great zeal. If we could get our youth in the churchs to have as much zeal, it would be a great asset.
I'm leading our chuch in the way of the master and I have to agree many have been preaching a watered down gospel with things like wouldn't you like a better life etc... and thats it. True God does give us a great life but we need to teach them they are sinners and we all deserve hell and thats why Jesus died on the cross, etc. I have also been to saddleback conferences and I learned some good things but I didn't like that they said to not use words like repentance, justification etc, that the seekers wouldn't understand. Church is for the believers and we are to go out and evangelize and yes we will have people come in but we cant base our services around the seekers. We cant compete with the world and we shouldn't have to keep up with the world. What next an amusement park?
Not that I am against technology or entertainment, just that thinking they will like us and get saved because we are like them is useless.
I have a sister in law who isn't a christian and she visited a seeker friendly church and even she summed it up. It was a bunch of fluff.
 

D28guy

New Member
Well, I havent read the entire thread, only the 1st 5 pages or so, but I am exceedingly saddened by the virtiolic negativity being spewed forth by some posters regarding these brothers and sisters at the fellowship in question.

I read the article from the newspaper, and I cruised through the website they have that was posted. The one and only thing I have any problem with is joining up with the Catholic Church for whatever it was. I do not agree with that.

Other than that, I see nothing...NOTHING...that should be of any concern whatsoever to any bible believing conservative evangelical christian. Everything that I read in the article and website only causes me to say God bless these brothers and sisters for the biblical christian ministries they are involved in. They are the type of ministries that God surely is pleased with and surely will bless.

And I am so far from being a liberal its not even funny. I am a "card carrying" conservative evangelical "bapticostal" christian. :thumbs:

God bless,

Mike
 

D28guy

New Member
ChristianYouth...

You posted to another poster this...

"You are Arminian. Arminianism is toxic. It is an infection that invades one's whole theology."

ChristianYouth, I say this to you with all due respect...




HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND!!!!!



My goodness, what in the world are you thinking?

I happen to be calvinistic in my view of things, but those who are arminian are our brothers and sisters, and they are not diseased or "toxic". They see things differently than we do, but their theology is not "toxic". It might be in error sometimes but it isnt "toxic". I personally have been blessed greatly by arminian teaching and preaching as I have with calvinistic teaching and preaching.

I dont agree with them on everything but millions have surely been born again as a result of their witness in this world, as with our witness.

Saddened,

Mike
 
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