calledbyHisgrace
Member
What do you believe 1 Corinthians 1:17-31 teaches as a whole? What does it mean to be "called" from your perspective? I'm curious about how this is understood from non-Calvinist/sovereign grace points of view. Thanks!
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A Question For Non-Calvinists
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Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
In my non-Calvinist opinion, the "called" in verse 24 are those who "believed" in verse 21.
"For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." (KJV)
The "called" responded to the preaching of "Christ crucified" (vs. 23).
Verses 23 & 24, collectively, is a repeat of the truth of verse 18:
1:18 For the preaching of the cross [Christ crucified] is to them that perish foolishness [the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness]; but unto us which are saved [them which are called, both Jews and Greeks] it is [Christ] the power of God [and the wisdom of God]. (KJV)
1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. (KJV)
calledbyHisgrace
Member
@Pastor_Bob
From your view, is there any difference between "called" and "saved" in this passage?
From your view, is there any difference between "called" and "saved" in this passage?
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Read the passage in the ESV, it does not seem the least bit Calvinistic.
calledbyHisgrace
Member
@Reynolds
I've gone and read the passage in the ESV, but I'm still curious how it fits in with non-Calvinist doctrine?
Specifically: verse 24 says that the gospel is the power of God to those who are "called", and then verses 26-28 say that God is the one who has chosen who is called.
If "called" means "saved" or "being saved", then verses 26-28 are saying that God has chosen who will be saved.
If "called" means to be given prevenient grace, then verses 26-28 are saying that God withholds this grace from some.
Is there another option for what "called" means that better fits your theology?
I've gone and read the passage in the ESV, but I'm still curious how it fits in with non-Calvinist doctrine?
Specifically: verse 24 says that the gospel is the power of God to those who are "called", and then verses 26-28 say that God is the one who has chosen who is called.
If "called" means "saved" or "being saved", then verses 26-28 are saying that God has chosen who will be saved.
If "called" means to be given prevenient grace, then verses 26-28 are saying that God withholds this grace from some.
Is there another option for what "called" means that better fits your theology?
I think my point is the ESV is rather neutral there. My theology? I am a Classical Arminiam. The ONLY area I will disagree with you on (and only slightly) is whether or not the call can be resisted.
37818
Well-Known Member
I am not sure I see any problem. Romans 8:28-29; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.
A calling is always to be a servant to do specific things such as spreading the Word. Being saved is being saved it means you are called.to help spread the gospel A drawing to Christ is so you can be saved. Election means a few different things but never means you will be saved. There is no guarantee of Salvation through election. After all the Jews were elect and The majority rejected Christ and is why Salvation was sent to the gentiles.
MB
MB
calledbyHisgrace
Member
You're right, this isn't a "problem text" for those who believe in sovereign grace. I just wonder how others reconcile it with their beliefs?
So far, it seems that they agree that the "called" are the "saved". I just don't see how they reconcile verses 26-31 if that's the case though...
37818
Well-Known Member
I am not a Calvinist, and I am not understanding what you are seeing seems to be a difficulty for a non-Calvinist. Help me out here. I believe in conditional unmerited election. I believe in a general redemption where Christ will either be one's Savior or Judge. I believe the inclination of all men is to resist the Holy Spirit, and in this many manage to fail to listen fully to understand the gospel of grace (Titus 2:11).
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
I do not see a need to reconcile these verses; they seem to all agree.
I Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called [unto us which are saved - vs. 18], both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. (KJV)
1:26 For ye see your calling [your responding to the preaching of Christ crucified], brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called [not many of these respond to the preaching of the cross because it is foolishness to them (vs.18)]: (KJV)
calledbyHisgrace
Member
@Pastor_Bob
So you would interpret "called" in this passage as meaning responding?
"But unto them which are (responding), both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God." v24
"For ye see your (response), brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are (responding):" v26
I can see how this reconciles the above verses with your beliefs. But how does that fit in with God having chosen who is called?
"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty" v27
Also, interpreting called as responding doesn't seem to fit very well with verse 9:
"God is faithful, by whom ye were (responding) unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord."
Or with verse 2:
"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, (responding) to be saints..."
So you would interpret "called" in this passage as meaning responding?
"But unto them which are (responding), both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God." v24
"For ye see your (response), brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are (responding):" v26
I can see how this reconciles the above verses with your beliefs. But how does that fit in with God having chosen who is called?
"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty" v27
Also, interpreting called as responding doesn't seem to fit very well with verse 9:
"God is faithful, by whom ye were (responding) unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord."
Or with verse 2:
"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, (responding) to be saints..."
calledbyHisgrace
Member
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
Context is the key. "Called" would be, at times, "responded" to the gospel call.
You are confusing the men who are called with the means of the call. Again, context is the key. This verse in no way teaches unconditional election.
God is the divine Initiator of the call. The emphasis is "by whom" not "called."
Again, those who are saved - who have responded to the gospel call.
calledbyHisgrace
Member
@Pastor_Bob
So you would say that the definition of the word "called" is "saved" in this chapter until verse 26, and then it changes to "responded"?
Do you have any other verse references where the word "called" would be defined as "responded"? This just seems like a strange definition for the word "called" to me...
So you would say that the definition of the word "called" is "saved" in this chapter until verse 26, and then it changes to "responded"?
Do you have any other verse references where the word "called" would be defined as "responded"? This just seems like a strange definition for the word "called" to me...
37818
Well-Known Member
God calls all but not all are God's elect so not all will obey the call. Without merit on the part of the elect the elect are those who obey the sanctifying work of God's Holy Spirit. Without which no one can come to God. In my understanding sanctification precedes faith which precedes regeneration.
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calledbyHisgrace
Member
Actually, maybe this is what I need to understand:
Can you explain this to me?
calledbyHisgrace
Member
@37818
I can agree that God calls all men in a sense. He calls all men to repentance for example. But the calling in 1 Corinthians 1 specifically says that it's not to everyone:
"For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:" v26
Paul refers to it as the brethren's calling, which He earlier described:
"God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord." v9
He also paralleled "called" to "saved" in verses 18 and 24.
My question is, how do non-Calvinists reconcile that God chose who is called? (verses 27-31)
Is it even possible?
I can agree that God calls all men in a sense. He calls all men to repentance for example. But the calling in 1 Corinthians 1 specifically says that it's not to everyone:
"For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:" v26
Paul refers to it as the brethren's calling, which He earlier described:
"God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord." v9
He also paralleled "called" to "saved" in verses 18 and 24.
My question is, how do non-Calvinists reconcile that God chose who is called? (verses 27-31)
Is it even possible?
37818
Well-Known Member
Ok, but did not Jesus use that term saying, "many are called?" Matthew 22:14. There being those that are called, and those that are called that had heeded the call.
calledbyHisgrace
Member
He did, but in this parable it was the "wise", "mighty" and "noble" who were first called. When they refused to come, the King's anger was kindled, and He called the "foolish", "weak", "base" and "despised" to "confound the mighty". In the Luke account, it describes an important difference in how the two groups were called:
"Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready." Luke 14:16-17
"And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled." Luke 14:23
The wise and mighty were bidden, or invited to come, but the foolish and weak were compelled, or overpowered to come.
In this parable, they were all "called", but only the foolish and weak were "chosen".
In 1 Corinthians, the "called" refers only to the foolish and weak that were "chosen"
"Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready." Luke 14:16-17
"And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled." Luke 14:23
The wise and mighty were bidden, or invited to come, but the foolish and weak were compelled, or overpowered to come.
In this parable, they were all "called", but only the foolish and weak were "chosen".
In 1 Corinthians, the "called" refers only to the foolish and weak that were "chosen"