A Question for the Calvinist among us...

The acts they were doing were good in themselves. In other words, not stealing, for instance, is a good thing, so everytime someone doesn't steal, it's good. Everytime someone doesn't murder, it's good.

But they are not things of spiritual good, unless they were not stealing and not murdering for the right reason: out of love and service to God--Commandment #1.

And BTW, calvinists believe that spiritually dead people can and do perform acts of civil good. It's spiritual good that they can't do. They can't serve God because they love him, since their natural disposition is opposition to God.

 

Yes I do, and thank you, you proved my point very well.:applause:

 

Great post. The calvinist does not want to believe the "natural man" can be anything besides an unregenerated person. You point this out to them, and you get accused of changing the context to fit your beliefs (I won't name names). The truth is, we ALL still have the "natural man" within us, but believers are given a new spirit, also.

 

Only those things which are done IN FAITH are pleasing to God and thus "good." All the rest is filthy rags in his sight. There is nothing in scripture which even comes close to suggesting that the fall made faith in God unattainable unless first regenerated. That doctrine is assumed and read into the texts.

 

Thank you. This point is vital to understanding the errors of Calvinistic dogma. I bought into Calvinism for many years but once these truths were made clear to me I realized the inherent errors of this system of thought.

 

Thank you. This point is vital to understanding the errors of Calvinistic dogma. I bought into Calvinism for many years but once these truths were made clear to me I realized the inherent errors of this system of thought.

 

Yes, and I bought into free-willism Arminism whatever you want to call it-ism, but once the TRUTHS of "calvinism" were made clear to me I realizeed the inherent errors of that system of thought.

Now who's right?

 

I suspect that one day God will gather us all up and explain everything in detail.








By the way, He has personally ask me to assist Him in this process! :laugh:

 

Yea, I got the same calling Skandelon. :laugh: :thumbs: :type: busy busy busy!!

 

That's funny... cause He asked me the same thing. Hmmmm... ;-)

 

Well, He had to have someone showing everyone how not to do it. :smilewinkgrin:

 

Glad you can accept your lot in life. Iit hurts less when you can admit your shortcomings doesn't it. It's okay skan God asked me to help you find your way back.

 

God help him.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

By that estimation, Adam kept dying every year until the high priest atoned for the people's sins on Yom Kippur.:laugh:

And then what else you said is that Adam and Eve were redeemed by the blood of animals, better read the entire Book of hebrews again.

 

Oh, please, now your gonna go and confuse the two as if they are even related to each other!

 

To obey your parents as a lost person is not a righteous act, because truly righteous acts are only those done for right reasons. As skandelon mentioned, that means they must be done from faith, and a lost person is not acting in faith.

When a lost person obeys his parents, that's a good act in the sense that it's beneficial to himself and his parents and society--hence the term civil good. But it's not a righteous act, and hence not an act of spiritual good.

And when people say someone who is spiritually dead cannot do spiritual good, that's what they mean. That the spiritually dead person cannot be truly righteous and do truly righteous things, because to be truly righteous requires the power of the Holy Spirit, the power of the new creation, the power of new life.

 

Do you believe that people have true faith apart from the power of the Holy Spirit? Both before and after the fall?

 

No. Not "apart from the power of the Holy Spirit." But, Russell, what is the power of the Holy Spirit?

Options:
1. An irresistable inward working never expounded upon in the scripture.

OR

2. The powerful Holy Spirit inspired gospel of truth which is spoken of consistently through the scripture as the "power of God unto Salvation" and working like a "double edged sword cutting body and soul."

I think Calvinist have underestimated the power of God's word. Jesus called his words "spirit and life." And yet Calvinists assume that his words alone are insufficient to enable faith. Paul says, "Faith comes by hearing," yet Calvinists insist faith comes by hearing only if one is regenerated first. Our new birth is spoken of as coming through the message of truth. We are born again through the word of God.