A return to it's theological foundation

[Iconoclast]

="Earth Wind and Fire,

Well at least that would be a humble & honest livingWink

So....it is not possible that Dr. Mohler can be honest, and humble, and a gifted bible teacher at the same time? Read your own statement....when you say "at least"....you imply the others are not honest or humble.

So tell me, a child is born brain damaged......cant speak, hear, communicate.....in short, totally incapable of hearing the gospel. Years later, she dies. What is her place in eternity?

This answer has been offered many times on here.If you do not accept it, show why from scripture you can find fault with it.
TC asked you a question and said he was waiting for you to answer.....you said..."you will be waiting for a long time"
What kind of a response is that? You want to call many of us and our responses into question but then turn around is fair play as the saying goes......here is your answer;

3._____ Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )

How do you know I am not a church member? You know what happens when you assume dont you

.....Smile
Well....not counting your professed involvement in "pub fellowship".....you are always saying how there is no church in NJ at all.
You find a reason that you disqualify them even though scripture indicates believers have a duty to seek out others who are believers. Unless you are not being truthful, that is how I know....you post it all the time.

Are you obsessed with this......Is this what KRN was alluding to?

Barefoot
If you look at it....every once in awhile kyred goes on the attack....he does not like my views and others of hell, or biblical self examination, or evangelism. He posts and calls names, etc....then he gets some return fire. that is what is happening

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

="Earth Wind and Fire,


So....it is not possible that Dr. Mohler can be honest, and humble, and a gifted bible teacher at the same time? Read your own statement....when you say "at least"....you imply the others are not honest or humble.

Seriously.........that's how you interpret it?



This answer has been offered many times on here.If you do not accept it, show why from scripture you can find fault with it.
TC asked you a question and said he was waiting for you to answer.....you said..."you will be waiting for a long time"
What kind of a response is that? You want to call many of us and our responses into question but then turn around is fair play as the saying goes......here is your answer;

.....Smile [/quote]

Would you prefer this?

Well....not counting your professed involvement in "pub fellowship".....you are always saying how there is no church in NJ at all.
You find a reason that you disqualify them even though scripture indicates believers have a duty to seek out others who are believers. Unless you are not being truthful, that is how I know....you post it all the time.

The problem rests with you ..... not me.

If you look at it....every once in awhile kyred goes on the attack....he does not like my views and others of hell, or biblical self examination, or evangelism. He posts and calls names, etc....then he gets some return fire. that is what is happening

I know whats happening......he is rightly calling you out for your rigidness & legalism. Probably thinks your a........naaaa, its not worth it. I will let Larry speak for himself.Cautious

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes God has a plan that existed before the world was...that is wonderful. No one on earth knows all those who God has included in that plan for salvation....but we do know that God has told us ...TO GO INTO ALL THE WORLD..... and make disciples.
Everyone does that except PB members....evidently. Sounds like you sit back saying, if God is going to save em, He will save em....and we can just sit here in our little building and wait and see if anyone comes in. good luck with that!CautiousCautiousCautiousCautiousCautious

He does save them.....He is God & He is sovereign....and sometimes He uses us

That God saves sinners is without question. The main question is what means does God ordinarily use to save sinners?

.and sometimes He uses us and every PB knows this.

I would not say sometimes....I would say most all the time God uses Christians to speak and teach the unsaved, he has ordained faithful preaching, teaching, living, and serving as means to convert sinners into saints.
I do not "know" what most PB do. I only know about those i interact with, or read some of their printed ideas, doctrinal statements and quite frankly it offers next to nothing as far as I am am concerned.
What do I mean by that? Am I just being a wise guy? No.
Think it out. Cals already believe the five points so the PB offers nothing new because elction does not surprise or confuse a Cal.
The PB goes beyond scripture and seeks to divorce the teaching from real life. That is why they alone come up with these odd categories, time salvation, absoluters, no hellers, etc.....this is time wasting nonsense and carnal speculation basd on a wrong view of the teaching.
That PB churches exist does not bother me personally....do you know why? I have never has a PB person approach me with any kind of gospel presentation, nor have I ever heard or seen a PB person in public presenting the gospel , because they sit back with a hyper -cal kind of complacency.
They think they can defend this....and perhaps one day many of them will get that chance like the man who hid the one talent that he was given......I am not their judge Steve, but I cannot defend that unbiblical extreme. If they feel they can, it is no skin off my nose. they do not bother me.....I am responsible to do what i can faithfully.
It does not bother me if people speak against me, accuse me of being or acting like "an Arminian".....I speak to every person i can about the scriptures, their sin, and a God who has placed His love In His Son and the blood of the cross.
Do I trick them, or use carnal emotional reasoning like Arminians....NO....but I prayerfully zero in on the sin question, the authority of God and His word, and the fact that All the Father has given to the Son...WILL COME TO JESUS....at a point in time, mainly through the word preached;
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

and every PB knows this.

That is not what I am reading Steve.....how do you know by the way? Have you ever even been in a PB church? how many times? I think you have not been there...tell me if i am wrong.

So it confuses me to watch you accuse us for something you Tony do not fully understand and appreciate

Well you know Steve I am pretty straight forward...I hope you understand clearer now....Like here...You say ...US?...You are not a member of that church in any local place....you think you identify with it's teaching, but you really do not know.

.

I'm going to spend this morning in prayer that you brother have a better/ less biased understanding of Primitive Baptists.

If you are going to pray for me, pray that God keeps providing gospel opportunities for me each day. PB churches are not a hobby of mine...in fact to be honest...they do ot catch my attnetion for any reason. I see some of them in the south....small buildings, never open for the most part, have not seen any signs of life in them....I will take some pictures of those i see if you want.

 

[kyredneck]

You do not believe in it as most of the PB churches are known and identified as having a twisted view of evangelism...

If God calls someone to carry the gospel to another locale then that person had better see to it, immediately.

...basically they do not obey the great commission.

They excel at the great commission.

Feed My lambs...tend My sheep...feed My sheep... Jn 21:15-17

28 Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. Acts 20

1 The elders among you I exhort, who am a fellow-elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, who am also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Tend the flock of God which is among you, exercising the oversight, not of constraint, but willingly, according to the will of God; nor yet for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 neither as lording it over the charge allotted to you, but making yourselves ensamples to the flock. `1 Pet 5

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Perhaps you should read it.

I read the one provided by Yossie earlier this AM. Interesting how a person could be railroaded out of her job in the name of true or false religion.

 

[kyredneck]

their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Yes, as precisely foretold by Christ:

8 But ye shall receive power, when the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 1

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in the heavens, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel,
6 which is come unto you; even as it is also in all the world bearing fruit and increasing, as it doth in you also, since the day ye heard and knew the grace of God in truth;
23 if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister. Col 1

25 Now to him that is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which hath been kept in silence through times eternal,
26 but now is manifested, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, is made known unto all the nations unto obedience of faith: Ro 16

 

[Iconoclast]

If God calls someone to carry the gospel to another locale then that person had better see to it, immediately.



They excel at the great commission.

Feed My lambs...tend My sheep...feed My sheep... Jn 21:15-17

28 Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. Acts 20

1 The elders among you I exhort, who am a fellow-elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, who am also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Tend the flock of God which is among you, exercising the oversight, not of constraint, but willingly, according to the will of God; nor yet for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 neither as lording it over the charge allotted to you, but making yourselves ensamples to the flock. `1 Pet 5

Kyred,
This is proper to build up and disciple the local assembly.....the great Commission has the idea.....Go...or as you are going to all nations.....not as you cluster among yourselves....God bless our 4 and no more.

 

[kyredneck]

PB churches are not a hobby of mine...in fact to be honest...they do ot catch my attnetion for any reason. I see some of them in the south....small buildings, never open for the most part, have not seen any signs of life in them....I will take some pictures of those i see if you want.

Lol, sounds like to me they've got your attention, you sure like to speak evil of them and cast them in a bad light. Unorthodox by your standards, usually comprised of little flocks, simple folk, their meeting places often in obscure out of the way places, and some of the most loving people you could ever hope to meet.

 

[kyredneck]

<.........................>

 

[kyredneck]

not as you cluster among yourselves

We don't stand or fall to you or any other judgmental busybodies. As I said before, you should tend to your own business and leave others alone. Maybe you can get that log out of your own eye in the meantime.

 

[Iconoclast]

Lol, sounds like to me they've got your attention, you sure like to speak evil of them and cast them in a bad light. Unorthodox by your standards, usually comprised of little flocks, simple folk, their meeting places often in obscure out of the way places, and some of the most loving people you could ever hope to meet.

We don't stand or fall to you or any other judgmental busybodies. As I said before, you should tend to your own business and leave others alone. Maybe you can get that log out of your own eye in the meantime.

I like your style...Kyred-
you say i should tend to my own business after you offer this;
This thread was about how DR.Mohler cleaned house at the bible school.....then you entered and offered this......

Really? It sounds like ICON, not God, has judged that all unorthodox folks go to hell.....hell hell hell

What's your judgment on Billy Graham? Is he going to hell?

You got ant idea what statement of his I'm addressing?

...and you're butting into a dialog between me and Icon...

Did this 'nice lady' do either of those? No, she extrapolated from her reasoning, basically got fired for it, and religionist bigots the likes of Iconoclast condemns her to hell. Never mind if she is still loving mercy, doing justly, and walking humbly before her God, she goes to hell for her error of 'unorthodoxy'.

SNIP

[add]

and how much more Pharisaical/Puritanical could you be?

You represent one HUMONGOUS contradiction to me. How does a false professor take heed? If their names are not written before the foundation of the world why do you persist with this 'false professors take heed'?

I assume you and P4T imagine there are a lot of 'false professors' on this board because you never tire of warning us of hell fire damnation if we don't change our ways when there's no way we could change our ways if our names weren't written in heaven before the foundation of the world.

Does it give you some sense of authority to threaten God's saints with eternal consequences?

Looks like it is you making all kinds of judgmental statements.......yet you say I need to get the log out of my eye....yes, I see.
If the loving people in the photo have your attitude....I might just pass on that fellowshipCautiousRedfaceUnsure

 

[Iconoclast]

kyredneck,

Lol, sounds like to me they've got your attention,

They did not post to me,you did.

you sure like to speak evil of them and cast them in a bad light

.

I have never met any of these persons.I was speaking of the teaching about missionary activity, or the lack there of.

Unorthodox by your standards,

My standards, or the biblical standards? That is always the question.

usually comprised of little flocks, simple folk

I have been in small to moderate size churches most of my Christian life. Small churches, simple folks do not disturb me at all.
Sometimes an assembly meets in rural settings

, their meeting places often in obscure out of the way places, and some of the most loving people you could ever hope to meet.

Not a problem.....but if they do not believe they need to actively speak evangelistically to sinners that is problematic.


[/QUOTE]

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Thank you for posting that you-tube bio, Icon. Excellent! Praise God for raising up Al Mohler! It's so encouraging to think that a liberal seminary can indeed be turned around.

With regard to false teachers, whether in seminaries or anywhere else, there are very stern words:
'But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea' (Mark 9:42).
'Little one' does not have to mean a young child, but can mean someone of any age who is young in the faith.
'My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgement' (James 3:1).

 

[kyredneck]

This thread was about how DR.Mohler cleaned house at the bible school.....then you entered and offered this......

Simply doing as you yourself do, responding to your posts/threads "as a series". The gist of your posts is to continually imply/threaten hell/eternal consequences to those outside of what you consider "orthodox" or Christians that sin. Indeed, it wouldn't surprise me if the whole point of this thread is summed up in post #10:

"No doubt she might indeed be a "nice lady'....but many nice persons who commit nice rebellion against God will perish."

Hell on the brain.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Simply doing as you yourself do, responding to your posts/threads "as a series". The gist of your posts is to continually imply/threaten hell/eternal consequences to those outside of what you consider "orthodox" or Christians that sin. Indeed, it wouldn't surprise me if the whole point of this thread is summed up in post #10:

"No doubt she might indeed be a "nice lady'....but many nice persons who commit nice rebellion against God will perish."

Hell on the brain.

What about heaven on the brain? Gentlemen, I have been asking this question for a while & so allow me to ask it on this thread as well. "If you are not a disciple of Christ, are you truly Christian? I would like you both (ICON & KYRED) to give me their thoughts on that. Thanks.

 

[Iconoclast]

What about heaven on the brain? Gentlemen, I have been asking this question for a while & so allow me to ask it on this thread as well. "If you are not a disciple of Christ, are you truly Christian? I would like you both (ICON & KYRED) to give me their thoughts on that. Thanks.

Fair enough as the word of God is a twoedged sword;

12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:


15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

1jn3;
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Col3;
3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:


6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:


7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Notice in all forward looking passages the prospect of heaven is diligently pursued by those who also take heed to make their calling and election sure, following and seeking holiness in the life, mortifying sin, purifying thier speech and conduct before men as the obey the law of God, toward God and man.
it is not given to carnal professors and those who would denigrate Christ's person or work in favor of carnal reasoning exalting itself against the Lord Jesus ChristChrist and his kingdom rule.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Not a problem.....but if they do not believe they need to actively speak evangelically to sinners that is problematic.

DEFINE "EVANGELISTIC BEHAVIOR" to me Tony? Then explain to my why you do not believe that Primitive Baptists are evangelistic?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Fair enough as the word of God is a twoedged sword;

12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:


15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

1jn3;
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Col3;
3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:


6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:


7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Notice in all forward looking passages the prospect of heaven is diligently pursued by those who also take heed to make their calling and election sure, following and seeking holiness in the life, mortifying sin, purifying thier speech and conduct before men as the obey the law of God, toward God and man.
it is not given to carnal professors and those who would denigrate Christ's person or work in favor of carnal reasoning exalting itself against the lord Jesus Christ and his kingdom rule.

So a carnal Luke-warm "supposed Christian" is not a true Christian......have I got that right?

 

[kyredneck]

What about heaven on the brain?

See post #16. Heaven on the brain is positive reinforcement; it greatly encourages one to take joy in, and set their affections on things above, and not on things of the earth. 'The joy of the Lord is our strength' and Icon's incessant warnings of hell fire damnation towards the redeemed takes the good news out of the gospel and ultimately brings one's attention down to this plane of sin & woe.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

See post #16. Heaven on the brain is positive reinforcement; it greatly encourages one to take joy in, and set their affections on things above, and not on things of the earth. 'The joy of the Lord is our strength' and Icon's incessant warnings of hell fire damnation towards the redeemed takes the good news out of the gospel and ultimately brings one's attention down to this plane of sin & woe.

But my brother, you did not answer my question.....Can a person be a Christian without being a Disciple of Christ?