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A sincere question for Catholics

3AngelsMom

<img src =/3mom.jpg>
Hello everyone, I know I said I was going to stay away, but this article has left me wondering if the Catholic brethren out there know what's happening in their church.

Are you guys aware of these statements?


Cardinal Francis Arinze, who's considered a possible successor to
Pope John Paul II, has denied Jesus is the only way to heaven. In a
recent interview the spirited 66 year-old deputy for outreach to
other religions was asked, "So was Jesus wrong when he said he was
the way, the truth and the life?"

Arinze responed, "If a person were to push what you said a little
further and say that if you're not a Christian you're not going to
heaven, we'd regard that person as a fundamentalist...and
theologically wrong. I met in Pakistan a Muslim. He had a wonderful
concept of the Koran. We were like two twins that had known one
another from birth. And I was in admiration of this man's wisdom. I
think that man will go to heaven. There was a Buddhist in Kyoto, in
Japan. This man, a good man, open, listening, humble-I was amazed. I
listened to his works of wisdom and said to myself, "The grace of
God is working in this man." The interviewer then repeated the
question, "So you can still get to heaven without accepting
Jesus?" "Expressly, yes [he
laughs with the audience]" (Dallas Morning News, 3/20/99)

I'm not trying to mess with anyone. This article shocked me, and I am sincerely wondering if it is a shock to the Catholic community as well, or if you are singing right along with this man?

God Bless,
Kelly
 
Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:
I'm not trying to mess with anyone. This article shocked me, and I am sincerely wondering if it is a shock to the Catholic community as well, or if you are singing right along with this man?
No shock to me and I would agree.

But there is more to it that just one sentence.

Let me ask you, from the time of the Ressurection until the colonization of America, was every person that ever lived on the continent condemned to Hell? Or do you think that God could have chosen to accept some into Heaven even though they had never even heard the name Jesus, let alone the Gospel?
 

Rakka Rage

New Member
that is very shocking... i wonder if it is a common view.

No shock to me and I would agree.
you agree that Jesus is not the only way?

do you also agree with this?

John.14
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
 

Kathryn

New Member
Here is the text of Cardinal Arinze's recent speech at Georgtown University where people walked out because of his stand on homosexuality, contraception, abortion and other assaults on the family. He is from Nigeria, and not well known here. And yes, he does believe Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. In fact he says so in his speech. He is my personal favorite to become the next Pope.

God be praised for this major event today in the life of Georgetown University. Nearly a thousand young people are graduating. To you, dear young friends, I say: Allow serious religion to lead you to lasting joy. Happy parents and friends surround their loved ones. With them I say: Let us thank God for the gift of the family. The Company of Jesus, the Jesuits, initiated and nourish this University. With them I rejoice at the patrimony of Saint Ignatius and especially that the Catholic Church is God's gift to the world. To all I say: Arise, rejoice, God is calling you.

1. Serious Religion leads to lasting Joy.

My dear graduands, at this turning point in your lives, it is helpful to keep to essentials. One of them is to locate in what happiness consists. Everyone wants to be happy. Every human being desires lasting joy.

True happiness does not consist in the accumulation of goods: money, cars, houses. Nor is it to be found in pleasure seeking: eating, drinking, sex. And humans do not attain lasting joy by power grabbing, dominating others, or heaping up public acclaim. These three things, good in themselves when properly sought, were not able to confer on Solomon, perfect happiness. And they will not be able to confer it on anyone else! (cf Eccles 1: 2-3; II King 11: 1-8; Mt 20: 24-28; I Jn 2: 15-16).

Happiness is attained by achieving the purpose of our earthly existence. God made me to know him, to love him, to serve him in this world and to be happy with him forever in the next. Saint Augustine found this out in his later age after making many mistakes in his youth. He then cried out to God: "You have made us for yourself, and our heart is restless until it rests in you" (St Aug. Conf. I, 1). My religion guides and helps me towards this. My Catholic faith puts me in contact with Jesus Christ who is the way, the truth and the life (cf Jn 14:6). God's grace helps me to live on earth in such a way as to attain the purpose of my earthly existence.

My dear graduands, allow your religion to give your life its essential and major orientation. In our lives, religion is not something marginal, peripheral, additional, optional. My Catholic faith gives meaning and a sense of direction to my life. It gives it unity. Without it my life would be like an agglomeration of scattered mosaics. It is my religion, for example, that inspires my profession, that teaches me that there is more happiness in giving than in receiving (cf Acts 20:35), that helps me to appreciate that to reach the height of my growth potential, I must learn to give of myself to others as I practice my profession as lawyer, doctor, air hostess, congress member or priest (Vatican II: Gaudium et Spes, 24).

Allow your religion to give life, joy, generosity and a sense of solidarity to your professional and social engagements. In a world of religious plurality, you will of course learn to cooperate with people of other religious convictions. True religion teaches not exclusion, rivalry, tension, conflict or violence, but rather openness, esteem, respect and harmony. At the same time you should keep intact your religious identity, your distinction as a witness of Jesus Christ.

2. Thank God for the Gift of the Family.

As I see joy and just pride reflected on the faces of the parents and friends of these graduands, I think of God's goodness in giving the gift of the family to humanity.

It is God himself who willed that a man and a woman should come to establish a permanent bond in marriage. Marriage gives rise to the family. In this fundamental cell of society, love grows. There the exercise of sexuality has its correct locus. There human maturity is nurtured. There new life utters its first cry and later smiles at the parents. There the child is first introduced to religion. Is it any wonder that the Second Vatican Council called the family "the church of the home" (cf. Lumen Gentium, 11)?

In many parts of the world, the family is under siege. It is opposed by an anti-life mentality as is seen in contraception, abortion, infanticide and euthanasia. It is scorned and banalized by pornography, desecrated by fornication and adultery, mocked by homosexuality, sabotaged by irregular unions and cut in two by divorce.

But the family has friends too. It is nourished and lubricated by mutual love, strengthened by sacrifice and healed by forgiveness and reconciliation. The family is blessed with new life, kept united by family prayer and given a model in the Holy Family of Nazareth of Jesus, Mary and Joseph. Christian families are moreover blessed by the Church in the name of Christ and fed by the sacraments, especially the Holy Eucharist. It was beautiful that at the beatification of Mr. and Mrs. Luigi and Maria Beltrame-Quattrocchi in St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican City on October 21, 2001, three of their children were present.

May God bless all the families here present and grant our graduands who will one day set up their own families his light, guidance, strength, peace and love.

3. The Patrimony of Saint Ignatius of Loyola.

We rejoice with the Jesuit Community that set up and keeps up Georgetown University. In the patrimony of Saint Ignatius of Loyola, love of the Church is prominent. It is a joy, an honor and a responsibility to belong to the one, holy catholic and apostolic Church. This Mystical Body of Christ, this largest of all religious families that ever existed, is the divinely set-up family for all peoples, languages and cultures. This Church has produced Saints from every state of life, men and women who, open to God's grace, have become signs of hope. But this same Church also has sinners in her fold. Far from discouraging and rejecting them, the Church offers them hope, wholesome Gospel teaching, saving sacraments and the invitation to abandon the food of pigs, make a U-turn and return to the refreshing joy of their Father's house, like the prodigal son (cf Lk 15: 14-24).

This Church has inherited from Christ, the Apostles and her living tradition, a non-negotiable body of doctrine on faith and morals. The tenets of the Catholic faith do not change according to the play of market forces, majority votes or opinion polls. "Jesus Christ is the same today as he was yesterday and as he will be for ever" (Heb 13: 8). This is the Church that St. Ignatius invites all his spiritual children to love and cherish. This is the Church to which we have the joy to belong.

My dear graduates, parents and the Jesuit Community of Georgetown, arise, rejoice, because God is calling us. And may God's light, peace, grace and blessing descend on you and remain with you always.

FRANCIS CARDINAL ARINZE May 17, 2003

[ June 18, 2003, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Kathryn ]
 
Originally posted by Rakka Rage:
you agree that Jesus is not the only way?
Rakka, why don't you answer my question?

Let me ask you, from the time of the Ressurection until the colonization of America, was every person that ever lived on the continent condemned to Hell? Or do you think that God could have chosen to accept some into Heaven even though they had never even heard the name Jesus, let alone the Gospel?
 

thessalonian

New Member
Jesus is the only way. The Cardinal's statement does not contradict that except in the writer's and anti-Catholic minds. Romans 1 and 2:15 is the key but why bother. You will say na na boo boo your interprutation is wrong in my opinion.
 

Ps104_33

New Member
Let me ask you, from the time of the Ressurection until the colonization of America, was every person that ever lived on the continent condemned to Hell? Or do you think that God could have chosen to accept some into Heaven even though they had never even heard the name Jesus, let alone the Gospel?
If they are one of the elect they would go to heaven if they are not they dont.

Are we all to assume that the buddhist that was refered to will remain a buddhist even after hearing about Christ and will still go to heaven?
 
Originally posted by Ps104_33:
If they never heard of jesus they arent one of the elect.
ps I edited my last post.
Then I take your answer to be that every person that lived on the continent of America (and Australia for that matter) from the time of the Ressurection until the colonization of those continents was absolutely condemned to hell because they could not have ever even heard of Jesus, let alone accept Him.

Is that your answer?
 

Ps104_33

New Member
The question is not whather a man can get to heaven without ever hearing about Jesus, but can a man who is a buddhist, after hearing about Christ can still go to heaven if he remains a buddhist. Can you answer that one?
 
Originally posted by Ps104_33:
The question is not whather a man can get to heaven without ever hearing about Jesus, but can a man who is a buddhist, after hearing about Christ can still go to heaven if he remains a buddhist. Can you answer that one?
Actually, the question posed in the opening post was:

"So you can still get to heaven without accepting
Jesus?"

I leave it up to God to decide as does the Church.

Others may presume to know the mind of God.

But you haven't answered my question.

Was every person that lived on the continent of America (and Australia for that matter) from the time of the Ressurection until the colonization of those continents absolutely condemned to hell because they could not have ever even heard of Jesus, let alone accept Him?

What do you say?
 

WPutnam

<img src =/2122.jpg>
AngelsMom,

Let me explain this in the simplest way I can.

Did Christ die for all of mandkind? Is it God's desire that all would come to Him, via the salvific sacrifice on the cross?

If you agree, then what about the individual who, having never heard of Christ, nevertheless lives the life that Christ would have him to live, cannot the salvific cross apply to him as well?

Or, bypassing the infinite knowledge, mercy and justice of God, is this individual going to go to hell anyway even while for all intents and purposes, the man has lived the live that Christ would have him to do?

Or should we all put the matter in the hands of God as only He can know the heart?

This is not to say that we can relax and not preach the gospel and "make disciples of all nations," as it is intuitive obvious that the odds for the "righteous pagan" may be quite remote. Therefore, the onus is still on us to Christianize the entire world and have them hear the gospel of Jesus Christ!


God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+


Christus Vincit! Christus Regnat! Christus Imperat!
 

GraceSaves

New Member
Jesus is indeed the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except by Him. And anyone who sincerely desired to know God, but was unable to know about the truth of Jesus Christ, and would end up in Heaven, would be there BY WAY OF JESUS CHRIST and HIS SACRIFICE ON THE CROSS. They don't get to Heaven through anyone but Jesus, even if they never knew Jesus.

God bless,

Grant
 

GraceSaves

New Member
I cannot know the questioneer's intentention, but there are two things to note here. One is the fault of whoever wrote the article, and ther other, assuming there is not missing dialogue, is the fault of the questioneer.

Here is the original question:

"So was Jesus wrong when he said he was the way, the truth and the life?"

And then the author of the piece writes:

"The interviewer then repeated the question,"

Now, I admittedly have hearing problems, but my vision is quite good. What follows is NOT the same question:

"So you can still get to heaven without accepting Jesus?"

If the interviewer thought he was asking the same question, fine, but he wasn't. And the writer of the piece on this interview, who was studying this in hindsight, directly misreprented the situation by calling it a repeat of the same question. Jesus being "the way, the truth, and the light" is not the same thing as "accepting Jesus." And it never will be. One is a True statement about God. The other is a statement about an event in a single person's life. They are not the same. I do not trust the author of this piece one bit, seeing as how his other commentary is already explicitly against the Cardinal, and that he twists the situation to meet his preconceived beliefs.

God bless you and may God have mercy on the deceitful author of the piece.

Grant
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Grant -

Jesus is indeed the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except by Him. And anyone who sincerely desired to know God, but was unable to know about the truth of Jesus Christ, and would end up in Heaven, would be there BY WAY OF JESUS CHRIST and HIS SACRIFICE ON THE CROSS. They don't get to Heaven through anyone but Jesus, even if they never knew Jesus.
OK - then lets take three non-Christians.

1-Goes to heaven.
1-goes to purgatory
1-goes to hell.

In the Catholic teaching on this -&gt;(God so loved the World that He Gave...) - what is the difference between the three of them?

In Christ,

Bob
 

GraceSaves

New Member
I'm not God, Bob. I don't make such judgements, nor would I ever be able to know if a non-Christian will be in Heaven or not, until I am there. We can hope that they will though, unless you have a particular liking of the thought of those who do not know Jesus roasting in hell. I know that our God is a merciful God, and I trust His judgement. Nothing more to it than that.

God bless,

Grant

P.S. Your inclusion of purgatory in that list either means you still don't know what Catholics believe it is, or you put it there to be facetious. No explanation needed, if that is the case.
 

Ps104_33

New Member
by t2u: Actually, the question posed in the opening post was:

"So you can still get to heaven without accepting
Jesus?"

I leave it up to God to decide as does the Church.

Others may presume to know the mind of God.

But you haven't answered my question.

Was every person that lived on the continent of America (and Australia for that matter) from the time of the Ressurection until the colonization of those continents absolutely condemned to hell because they could not have ever even heard of Jesus, let alone accept Him?

What do you say?
That was not the original question. Read carefully below:


Arinze responed, "If a person were to push what you said a little
further and say that if you're not a Christian you're not going to
heaven, we'd regard that person as a fundamentalist...and
theologically wrong. I met in Pakistan a Muslim. He had a wonderful
concept of the Koran. We were like two twins that had known one
another from birth. And I was in admiration of this man's wisdom. I
think that man will go to heaven. There was a Buddhist in Kyoto, in
Japan. This man, a good man, open, listening, humble-I was amazed. I
listened to his works of wisdom and said to myself, "The grace of
God is working in this man." The interviewer then repeated the
question, "So you can still get to heaven without accepting
Jesus?" "Expressly, yes
[he
laughs with the audience]" (Dallas Morning News, 3/20/99)

Are we assuming that this buddhist, being in contact with this bishop never heard of Christ? Shame on that bishop! this man chose to remain in his false religion and despite this fact the bishop said he could still go to heaven. Right?
This is a diferrent situation that the hypothetical scenario that you set up.

So. Can a man who is a buddhist, after hearing about Christ, still go to heaven and remain a buddhist?
Any other Catholic want to answer this one? T2U is avoiding the issue with alot of his usual disingenuousness.
 

DanielFive

New Member
Welcome back Kelly.

Kathryn you make a point of showing us where Cardinal Arinze quoted John 14:6, that proves absolutely nothing. Even the devil can quote Scripture, it's believing it that counts.


Bill said:
Did Christ die for all of mandkind? Is it God's desire that all would come to Him, via the salvific sacrifice on the cross?
Christ died for the elect, all of the elect WILL come to Him.

If you agree, then what about the individual who, having never heard of Christ, nevertheless lives the life that Christ would have him to live, cannot the salvific cross apply to him as well?
John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep AND AM KNOWN OF MINE.

Bill, are you saying that Christ would have one of His elect live a life in which He was completely ignorant of God. Strange theology. Now faith is not required at all, is that what you believe?

How can anyone live the life that Christ would have him live if he has never heard of Christ let alone surrendered his life to him?

God Bless

Enda
 
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