A Statement from the Calvinism Advisory Committee

[annsni]

Don't take it out of context. I said most of my mission is to wayward Catholics. Its a good bet you will find them in Catholic churches...but that doesn't mean I am one or agree with them on doctrinal matters. Id choose SBC next in that pecking order.

I didn't take it out of context. You said that you wouldn't do services with them - but then you previously said you did. Which is it?

 

[Herald]

I didn't take it out of context. You said that you wouldn't do services with them - but then you previously said you did. Which is it?

Speaking only for myself, having been delivered from the papist system I will never again attend one of their worship services where the Son of God continues to be sacrificed and salvation is by works. I have many friends and family members who are still in bondage to Rome. I grieve for them, but will not try to win them by attending the mass. I will try to win them by proclaiming the Gospel (2 Cor. 6:14).

 

[SolaSaint]

Rev,

Thanks for posting that statement. It says a lot of what of what I have in my thoughts but could not transfer them to paper. Very well said I think. Now if we will all just heed the words in the statement.

 

[annsni]

Speaking only for myself, having been delivered from the papist system I will never again attend one of their worship services where the Son of God continues to be sacrificed and salvation is by works. I have many friends and family members who are still in bondage to Rome. I grieve for them, but will not try to win them by attending the mass. I will try to win them by proclaiming the Gospel (2 Cor. 6:14).

We have gone because very dear friends are Catholic and there have been events that we've gone to that were masses. One was when her now ex-husband became a deacon and another was when she and her daughters were singing in mass and they have amazing voices! But honestly, I hate going. I grew up in a Catholic family (although we were saved when I was young, it was still where my dad and grandparents went) and went to Catholic school through high school. It makes me feel so oppressed when I'm there but I figure that I could go once in a blue moon to hopefully have her attend some things at OUR church.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Tom Bryant -- there is no reasoning with the kind of foolishness, intellectual arrogance and mentality of "separation" represented by your adversary in this thread. I've seen it for nearly 30 years, and I attempted it for 2/3rd's of that time. "He that soweth discord among brethren" is a "rabbit trail" the devil leads us down to keep us for the work of the Kingdom.

Let those who "separate" from everyone except themselves sit alone. They have the spirit of Diotrephes. We just need to busy ourselves about the work of the Kingdom, the preaching of the Gospel, making disciples.

Not every Calvinist is like him. I have Calvinists in my church. I am friends with Calvinists who are in leadership positions in the Founders Ministry. I am thankful that the SBC is at least trying to bridge the gap. There are lost people who need to be told the story of Jesus and we can all do it together.

 

[Herald]

We have gone because very dear friends are Catholic and there have been events that we've gone to that were masses. One was when her now ex-husband became a deacon and another was when she and her daughters were singing in mass and they have amazing voices! But honestly, I hate going. I grew up in a Catholic family (although we were saved when I was young, it was still where my dad and grandparents went) and went to Catholic school through high school. It makes me feel so oppressed when I'm there but I figure that I could go once in a blue moon to hopefully have her attend some things at OUR church.

Ann,

I understand. I actually did the same thing at one time, but my spirit was so vexed I had to say, "no more". Did it create hard feelings? Yes. But the question I had to ask myself was whether I was willing to obey the Word of God.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 14 Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? 16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, “I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. 17 “Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE,” says the Lord. “AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I will welcome you. 18 “And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,” Says the Lord Almighty.

This doesn't mean that I won't have anything to do with Roman Catholics. Most of my family are Roman Catholic. But I must obey God rather than men; keeping in mind that Jesus came to bring a sword (Matthew 10:34).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I didn't take it out of context. You said that you wouldn't do services with them - but then you previously said you did. Which is it?

Ive gone to two services.....they call them masses & sat in the back. I did not take communion nor participate in their services. Afterward I went to a dinner arranged by the Spanish where I shared the gospel with them. But the point is, I consider that missionary work...not doing a "Thinking Stuff" & joining them.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Speaking only for myself, having been delivered from the papist system I will never again attend one of their worship services where the Son of God continues to be sacrificed and salvation is by works. I have many friends and family members who are still in bondage to Rome. I grieve for them, but will not try to win them by attending the mass. I will try to win them by proclaiming the Gospel (2 Cor. 6:14).

When do you do that?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Not every Calvinist is like him. I have Calvinists in my church. I am friends with Calvinists who are in leadership positions in the Founders Ministry. I am thankful that the SBC is at least trying to bridge the gap. There are lost people who need to be told the story of Jesus and we can all do it together.

I'm not a Calvinist.

 

[Herald]

[/B]

When do you do that?

Since my family is in New Jersey I see them a few times a year. The topic of the Gospel comes up, but over the years they have closed their heart to it.

 

[saturneptune]

Speaking only for myself, having been delivered from the papist system I will never again attend one of their worship services where the Son of God continues to be sacrificed and salvation is by works. I have many friends and family members who are still in bondage to Rome. I grieve for them, but will not try to win them by attending the mass. I will try to win them by proclaiming the Gospel (2 Cor. 6:14).

Sometimes I forget what a leap it must have been from the RCC to the Baptist faith. Although there are differences between Presbyterian and Baptist, the switch was much closer in doctrine for me. Yes, RCC is a salvation by works, much like the SDA, only a different manner. When you say Christ "continues to be sacrificed" in a RCC, are you talking about the manner in which they conduct the Lord's Supper?

 

[saturneptune]

Ive gone to two services.....they call them masses & sat in the back. I did not take communion nor participate in their services. Afterward I went to a dinner arranged by the Spanish where I shared the gospel with them. But the point is, I consider that missionary work...not doing a "Thinking Stuff" & joining them.

I have a picture painted in my mind of your ministry being very unique and well placed for spreading the Gospel. It seems like there is so much more opportunity there for telling others about Christ than your average church on the corner. God bless you and your ministry.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Since my family is in New Jersey I see them a few times a year. The topic of the Gospel comes up, but over the years they have closed their heart to it.

Actually I mean in your day to day function as a Pastor, do you actively go out to preach the gospel? I ask because I get allot of lip service from people in the churches telling me about the great commission but Ive never seen anyone (besides the Mormons & JW's) actually pound the street.

Being from Jersey, you then know that the RCC dominates. While the Bible Belt has a Baptist Church on every corner, in my Jersey neighborhood its the RCC. They then become a natural target for me to correspond with. And when I talk to them about Jesus, its the Jesus who actually saved his people by his death on the cross. He did not come to make redemption possible but died to save those the father gave him....to redeem his people. He did not come to make propitiation possible...he turned aside God's wrath for each of his elect people forever. He did not come to make reconciliation between God & man possible; he actually reconciled to God those whom the Father had given him. He did not come merely to make atonement for sinners possible, but actually to atone for sinners.

John 6:38 & 39

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I have a picture painted in my mind of your ministry being very unique and well placed for spreading the Gospel. It seems like there is so much more opportunity there for telling others about Christ than your average church on the corner. God bless you and your ministry.

Thank you :godisgood:

 

[Herald]

Actually I mean in your day to day function as a Pastor, do you actively go out to preach the gospel? I ask because I get allot of lip service from people in the churches telling me about the great commishion but Ive never seen anyone (besides the Mormons & JW's) actually pound the street.

Being from Jersey, you then know that the RCC dominates. While the Bible Belt has a Baptist Church on every corner, in my Jersey neighborhood its the RCC. They then become a natural target for me to correspond with. And when I talk to them about Jesus, its the Jesus who actually saved his people by his death on the cross. He did not come to make redemption possible but died to save those the father gave him....to redeem his people. He did not come to make propitiation possible...he turned aside God's wrath for each of his elect people forever. He did not come to make reconciliation between God & man possible; he actually reconciled to God those whom the Father had given him. He did not come merely to make atonement for sinners possible, but actually to atone for sinners.

John 6:38 & 39

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "pound the streets". Evangelism should be incorporated into our daily life; at work, school, recreation, social events et. al. As God provides those divine appointments we need to respond by sharing the Gospel to the extent we are able. This is what I do. I enjoy going to the local Caribou Coffee and talking to people. Many times it has lead to a discussion on spiritual matters which, in turn, provides an opportunity to share the Gospel. All of this is up and above the ordinary method of proclaiming the good news from the pulpit.

 

[Herald]

When you say Christ "continues to be sacrificed" in a RCC, are you talking about the manner in which they conduct the Lord's Supper?

Yes. The mass has the effect of sacrificing Christ each time it is offered.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "pound the streets". Evangelism should be incorporated into our daily life; at work, school, recreation, social events et. al. As God provides those divine appointments we need to respond by sharing the Gospel to the extent we are able. This is what I do. I enjoy going to the local Caribou Coffee and talking to people. Many times it has lead to a discussion on spiritual matters which, in turn, provides an opportunity to share the Gospel. All of this is up and above the ordinary method of proclaiming the good news from the pulpit.

Thanks....you have answered my question.

 

[DrJamesAch]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "pound the streets". Evangelism should be incorporated into our daily life; at work, school, recreation, social events et. al. As God provides those divine appointments we need to respond by sharing the Gospel to the extent we are able. This is what I do. I enjoy going to the local Caribou Coffee and talking to people. Many times it has lead to a discussion on spiritual matters which, in turn, provides an opportunity to share the Gospel. All of this is up and above the ordinary method of proclaiming the good news from the pulpit.

This is EXACTLY the point that I have made in other threads that Calvinism discourages evangelism. This is a description of LIFESTYLE EVANGELISM not SOUL WINNING. As much as I have disagreed with EWF, his question about "beating the streets" is exactly the type of evangelism that Paul and others did. They did not just live out their life waiting for an opportunity for God to send someone divinely appointed to salvation their way. They went "daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ" Acts 5:42.

But I do disagree with one statement from EWF that Mormons and JW's are the only ones that beat the streets. Independent fundamental Baptists do as well, it is somewhat of a trademark that identifies an IFB church.

 

[Revmitchell]

This is a description of LIFESTYLE EVANGELISM not SOUL WINNING.

This is a distinction without a difference born our of personal preference rather than a biblical standard.

 

[DrJamesAch]

This is a distinction without a difference born our of personal preference rather than a biblical standard.

I think the entire book of Acts disagrees. Jesus said "GO". If God were to merely send people our way because they were divinely appointed, then we could just be a couch potato eating Twinkies.
There is nothing wrong with awaiting opportunities and speaking up when possible, but when that is the ONLY time someone decides to be a witness for Christ, that is NOT being obedient to the Great Commission. We are supposed to SEEK opportunities, not just sit and wait for them. Christ came to SEEK and save that which was lost.