A video of my girls dancing in church...

[Alive in Christ]

Aaron (and others of his mindset)...

gb93433 said...

"Pull out a concordance and read your Bible. That is where the proof is."

And I'll add, that means the WHOLE Bible, meaning ALL of the scriptures, not just the isolated scriptures that you focus on in order to justify the narrow little theological "box" that you live in.

We are to heed the WHOLE counsel of the scriptures.....not just *my favorite* counsel of the scriptures.


:godisgood:

 

[DHK]

Why the distinction. Shouldn't all be done to the glory of God?

2 Cor. 10:5, 6, "We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, and we are ready to punish all disobedience, whenever your obedience is complete."

Yes, all means all. Taking out the garbage, cleaning the kitchen, children playing sports like soccer or baseball, etc. But worship in the church is not when those things are done are they. Even the most mundane of things can be done to the glory of the Lord. But not all things are done during the time allotted when our hearts are given over to the hearing and preaching of God's Word, when Christ and Christ alone is central to the service, and He alone is being magnified, when all things are based on God's Word.

 

[Spinach]

A few have mentioned David's dance, however, it has been left out that he was naked. I suppose one might say that was okay because he wasn't in the church? Would anyone here say it was okay at all? If it's not okay, why?

 

[Aaron]

David was NOT naked. Read the passage again.

 

[Aaron]

How do you take, and David danced to the Lord out of context????

It's under the OT economy which was:

1. carnal (vs spiritual)
2. a dark dispensation
3. steeped in an ignorance at which God winked, but winks no longer
4. a dispensation of types and shadows of which the NT is the substance

. . . and the list goes on.

The point is, if this is an example to the church of a proper mode of spiritual worship, then we should also be pulling the heads off of doves and flinging blood upon the congregants and the altars. That's not that far off, really. Some Baptist churches are already burning incense and calling it worship.

 

[tinytim]

Though Aaron's response was bluntly worded, perhaps a better question would be:
Is such dance appropriate for church services, or more appropriate for a church-sponsored talent night.

Yes it is!

Annsni, I am sorry the legalists that want to keep Christians in bondage the way the Judaizers did in Paul's days can't appreciate your daughter's act of worship....

Just consider the sources... You know you are right when legalists want to deny grace to others...

(YOU HAD TO KNOW some would condemn you)

But you are in good company... the Pharisees condemned Christ.

 

[tinytim]

It's under the OT economy which was:

1. carnal (vs spiritual)
2. a dark dispensation
3. steeped in an ignorance at which God winked, but winks no longer
4. a dispensation of types and shadows of which the NT is the substance

. . . and the list goes on.

The point is, if this is an example to the church of a proper mode of spiritual worship, then we should also be pulling the heads off of doves and flinging blood upon the congregants and the altars. That's not that far off, really. Some Baptist churches are already burning incense and calling it worship.

And some Baptists are accusers of the brethren, and are more like Satan than Christ.

 

[matt wade]

Yes, all means all. Taking out the garbage, cleaning the kitchen, children playing sports like soccer or baseball, etc. But worship in the church is not when those things are done are they. Even the most mundane of things can be done to the glory of the Lord. But not all things are done during the time allotted when our hearts are given over to the hearing and preaching of God's Word, when Christ and Christ alone is central to the service, and He alone is being magnified, when all things are based on God's Word.

In your church have you ever made announcements of upcoming events? Have you ever let every one know that it was someone's birthday (such as the preachers)?

If you have, then your comments hold no weight since you also utilize worship time for things that are not completely centered on Christ.

Please, also make sure that you have never said the pledge of allegiance in church or sung any song about our country as that would also remove the focus from Christ.

Just saying, you know .

 

[DHK]

Yes it is!

Annsni, I am sorry the legalists that want to keep Christians in bondage the way the Judaizers did in Paul's days can't appreciate your daughter's act of worship....

Just consider the sources... You know you are right when legalists want to deny grace to others...

(YOU HAD TO KNOW some would condemn you)

But you are in good company... the Pharisees condemned Christ.

This word "legalism" is thrown around a lot, without care to its meaning. It is apparent that you don't know the meaning of the word. Before you know what it means, perhaps you had better look it up in a theological dictionary.
The Judaizers were legalists.

 

[DHK]

In your church have you ever made announcements of upcoming events? Have you ever let every one know that it was someone's birthday (such as the preachers)?

Announcements are made that pertain to spiritual matters in the church.
Announcements of birthdays during the worship service are not made.

If you have, then your comments hold no weight since you also utilize worship time for things that are not completely centered on Christ.

All things are centered on Christ.

Please, also make sure that you have never said the pledge of allegiance in church or sung any song about our country as that would also remove the focus from Christ.

Please note that I am a Canadian and I would never say your pledge of allegiance or sing any patriotic song during our service, especially American!!:laugh:

 

[gb93433]

Yes, all means all. Taking out the garbage, cleaning the kitchen, children playing sports like soccer or baseball, etc. But worship in the church is not when those things are done are they. Even the most mundane of things can be done to the glory of the Lord. But not all things are done during the time allotted when our hearts are given over to the hearing and preaching of God's Word, when Christ and Christ alone is central to the service, and He alone is being magnified, when all things are based on God's Word.

While your view is typical of American theology which is based on a Greek philosophical mindset. However it does no agree with the Jewish philosophical mindset of most of the Bible.

Worship is not just limited to a church experience or some kind of ecstatic experience. Some words translated as worship are words that denote service.

Worship is not limited to the hearing and preaching of God's Word. All that we do must be done in worship for our Lord.

Ro. 12:1, "Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship."

 

[DHK]

Worship is not just limited to a church experience or some kind of ecstatic experience. Some words translated as worship are words that denote service.

Worship is not limited to the hearing and preaching of God's Word. All that we do must be done in worship for our Lord.

I totally agree with you.
I drive my car to the glory of the Lord.
But I don't drive my car through the church building or through the congregation of the church. Are you suggesting that I do? It seems like you are!

 

[LeBuick]

It's under the OT economy which was:

1. carnal (vs spiritual)
2. a dark dispensation
3. steeped in an ignorance at which God winked, but winks no longer
4. a dispensation of types and shadows of which the NT is the substance

. . . and the list goes on.

The point is, if this is an example to the church of a proper mode of spiritual worship, then we should also be pulling the heads off of doves and flinging blood upon the congregants and the altars. That's not that far off, really. Some Baptist churches are already burning incense and calling it worship.

So you saying God changed? And what was once acceptable to God is no longer tolerated?

Do you have scripture that clearly identifies this change in God praise expectation? Last I knew, as long as what we do is in spirit and in truth then our praise will be worthy.

 

[LeBuick]

Annsni, I am sorry the legalists that want to keep Christians in bondage the way the Judaizers did in Paul's days can't appreciate your daughter's act of worship.....

Is that what I'm missing, this is a legalistic view? I thought it was the opposite and we were being accused of being legalistic because we worshiped as they did in the OT (with instruments and dance of the spirit so moves). When did God change aspects of worship?

 

[LeBuick]

Yes, all means all. Taking out the garbage, cleaning the kitchen, children playing sports like soccer or baseball, etc. But worship in the church is not when those things are done are they. Even the most mundane of things can be done to the glory of the Lord. But not all things are done during the time allotted when our hearts are given over to the hearing and preaching of God's Word, when Christ and Christ alone is central to the service, and He alone is being magnified, when all things are based on God's Word.

I don't think anyone dances when the preacher is preaching... We do it before. Now I have seen people get full of the spirit and start shouting but according to you that isn't allowed either.

I am picturing the chaos of the first century worship when one might jump up prophesying or speaking with tongues then you must have one who interprets. I think we're pretty tame compared to that crowd.

 

[LeBuick]

I totally agree with you.
I drive my car to the glory of the Lord.
But I don't drive my car through the church building or through the congregation of the church. Are you suggesting that I do? It seems like you are!

I think he's suggesting that you can, if that's what the spirit so moved you to do. Don't limit the actions of the spirit or it will not be truth...

 

[annsni]

Yes it is!

Annsni, I am sorry the legalists that want to keep Christians in bondage the way the Judaizers did in Paul's days can't appreciate your daughter's act of worship....

Just consider the sources... You know you are right when legalists want to deny grace to others...

(YOU HAD TO KNOW some would condemn you)

But you are in good company... the Pharisees condemned Christ.

No worries Tim. I knew some wouldn't agree with me but I knew others might be blessed by what these girls have done.

As for those who say that we don't pull heads off of pigeons and such anymore, you're right. But none of that was done in worship but in sacrifice. We no longer need to have objects of sacrifice but instead offer the sacrifice of praise as is spoken of in Hebrews 13:15. So instead of goats and lambs, we offer our praise as an offering and sacrifice to the Lord. I atleast know my daughters (two of the girls dancing) and I pretty well know most of the other girls and I know that they take this seriously. If there is strife at home, they withdraw from worship. If there is unconfessed sin in their lives, they withdraw from worship. They know that this is an offering to the Lord and they do not want it marred with their own selfishness and sin. These girls are learning what true worship is through their study of Scripture through this program. I wish all teens could have hearts as most of these girls have. Hearts earning to please the Lord and not others.

 

[matt wade]

Please note that I am a Canadian and I would never say your pledge of allegiance or sing any patriotic song during our service, especially American!!:laugh:

Point taken

 

[Trotter]

Praise the Lord, even through the dance.

My daughter was a part of a group that did sign language to contemporary Christian songs, basically dancing with their hands. Some would turn their noses up at the music or the signing, but it was an acceptanble means of worship. I know all the girls involved in this ministry were worshipping with all their heart when they stood up to do their songs, and most would weep while doing them as the words took on a much deeper meaning to them through the signing of them.

I would not think some forms of dance appropriate for the church, as some are rather vulgar and down-right sexual, but performing as these did (and do) as a form of worship is truly beautiful and full of praise.

 

[DHK]

I think he's suggesting that you can, if that's what the spirit so moved you to do. Don't limit the actions of the spirit or it will not be truth...

Let's get this straight. The Holy Spirit is not simply a vague influence, something like a tingly feeling or static electricity. The Holy Spirit is a Person, the third Person of the Triune Godhead. Let's not demean Him in any way.
Being God, God would not do anything contrary to his nature.
What does the Bible say about God? God is a God of order, and not of chaos.

Thus when you say: "Don't limit the actions of the 'spirit'", you demean God, and are inferring that He would go contrary to His own nature.
Let me assure you that God would never direct me to drive a car through a church building or put the lives of his children in danger by driving it through an assembly of believers. To say that putting limits on God and suggesting that God would direct in that way is foolishness.

Yes, I can drive my car to the glory of God; but I can't drive it in the middle of a worship service. There is a time and place for everything. I don't believe dance ought to be done in the service of the church, neither do we have any Scriptural precedent for it. Where is the Scripture to back up this kind of activity.
I will guarantee you that you won't find it in history, as we have already discussed on another thread in another forum. Instruments didn't even enter the church until sometime after the reformation. On a historical basis you have lost. But on a Scriptural basis? I don't believe you have a leg to stand on either.